Feminism!

Original post by Elipsis

You have illustrated my point perfectly; The idea that men could have inequalities is a laughing point for feminist idiots such as yourself. Issues like prostate cancer being 20 years behind breast cancer, women being overrepresented at university, men getting longer sentences for identical crimes, male domestic abuse (which some surveys suggest is just as high as female domestic abuse), violence against men being a laughing manner etc.

In the interests of equality, seeing as you don't give a crap about men's issues I don't give a crap about women's issues. :smile:

Oh please. Tell me the inequalities you suffer as a man. And not:

•

Arguments about cancer. Yeah, breast cancer awareness is big. I can't think why anyone would oppose that, but lets go: PEOPLE OF ANY GENDER CAN GET BREAST CANCER. NEARLY ALL OF US HAVE BREAST TISSUE. Also, prostate cancer awareness exists and doesn't sexalise prostates and prostate cancer survivors, like a lot of breast cancer awareness stuff does. I would love to know where you got the figure '20 years' from.

•

Please cite a source that women are over-represented at university. Men have dominated almost every field throughout history. They still dominate. Now women get to educate themselves too (and in a still androcentric, sexist environment where I will be paid less for my qualifications anyway), go cry about it.

•

I would love an example of a man getting a longer sentence for the same crime as a woman, because all I see when looking at gender-relevant sentencing statistics is that men who rape women are hardly ever convicted.

•

OF COURSE violence against men is bad. I don't think any feminist worth their salt would say that violence against men, where it happens, is in any way less serious than violence against women. (Ooh goody, I'd love to see your survey proof) but here is the problem. This is a common argument feminists and anti-sexists come up against every day and it's just derailing (http://derailingfordummies.com/#butbut) because violent language and actions are far more widespread against people who aren't men. When feminists talk about domestic abuse and you cry 'but it occasionally happens to us too!' you're just derailing the conversation and basically betraying your own ignorance. it's a way to lead the conversation off women and back onto men.

Cute threat not to care about my issues. Your problem is you think there are 'mens issues' and 'womens issues', when in reality there are 'issues' (read: dominated by men, seen as non-gendered issues) and 'womens issues' (read: mocked by men as being silly, trivial, insert other sexist nonsense here).

Our world is absolutely dominated by men. Of course it threatens you that there is a movement where men are not the priority. Feel threatened, then, feel like a victim, call the waaaaambulance. I don't care.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 222

Original post by lauren_a

I don't know what statistics you're using but rates of domestic violence against men is nowhere near the rates of domestic violence against women! You're just demonstrating a huge misunderstanding of the current situation. Sure, one or two sets of statistics might suggest that, but look into it any deeper and you'll find it to be completely untrue. Have you considered that women are 'overrepresented' at university because they consistently perform better in GCSEs and A Levels? You're just trying to create issues to make it seem like men have a 'harder time' than women. Prejudice and discrimination are not a competition. Grow up.

Have I ever considered that women get into university more because they perform in school to a higher standard? Well, given that the reverse used to be true, I have to question if it is something to do with a bias in the schooling system or perhaps in the selection of candidates for university. Have you ever considered that women get paid less because they do a worse job?

I realise they aren't a competition, and i'm all for solving women's issues. What I am advocating is that society doesn't keep dedicating a ridiculous amount of our finite resources towards women's issues at the expense of men's. The trouble is that in order to solve men's issues women have to give some ground - for instance giving up their sacred right to stop a man from ever seeing his children ever again if he does something she disapproves of. And it is feminists, in government and society, who stop this issue from being solved.

Reply 223

Original post by Elipsis

- Cases where women abort babies the man doesn't want aborted or vice versa

Just laughed myself sick. Just want to point this out as possibly the most hilariously stupid thing you have said so far. Good effort.

Reply 224

Original post by Parenchyma

Oh please. Tell me the inequalities you suffer as a man. And not:

•

Arguments about cancer. Yeah, breast cancer awareness is big. I can't think why anyone would oppose that, but lets go: PEOPLE OF ANY GENDER CAN GET BREAST CANCER. NEARLY ALL OF US HAVE BREAST TISSUE. Also, prostate cancer awareness exists and doesn't sexalise prostates and prostate cancer survivors, like a lot of breast cancer awareness stuff does. I would love to know where you got the figure '20 years' from.

•

Please cite a source that women are over-represented at university. Men have dominated almost every field throughout history. They still dominate. Now women get to educate themselves too (and in a still androcentric, sexist environment where I will be paid less for my qualifications anyway), go cry about it.

•

I would love an example of a man getting a longer sentence for the same crime as a woman, because all I see when looking at gender-relevant sentencing statistics is that men who rape women are hardly ever convicted.

•

OF COURSE violence against men is bad. I don't think any feminist worth their salt would say that violence against men, where it happens, is in any way less serious than violence against women. (Ooh goody, I'd love to see your survey proof) but here is the problem. This is a common argument feminists and anti-sexists come up against every day and it's just derailing (http://derailingfordummies.com/#butbut) because violent language and actions are far more widespread against people who aren't men. When feminists talk about domestic abuse and you cry 'but it occasionally happens to us too!' you're just derailing the conversation and basically betraying your own ignorance. it's a way to lead the conversation off women and back onto men.

Cute threat not to care about my issues. Your problem is you think there are 'mens issues' and 'womens issues', when in reality there are 'issues' (read: dominated by men, seen as non-gendered issues) and 'womens issues' (read: mocked by men as being silly, trivial, insert other sexist nonsense here).

Our world is absolutely dominated by men. Of course it threatens you that there is a movement where men are not the priority. Feel threatened, then, feel like a victim, call the waaaaambulance. I don't care.

Of course men can get breast cancer, but they get it at rates far far lower than women. Please don't try and brush it off so simplistically, it is embarressing. Here is an article explaining the gaps between breast cancer and prostate cancer funding and attention:
http://dailycaller.com/2010/10/05/breast-cancer-receives-much-more-research-funding-publicity-than-prostate-cancer-despite-similar-number-of-victims/

You will notice that breast cancer gets over twice the amount of funding and time as prostate cancer, and has done so for at least a decade, despite it affecting the same number of people.

Here is an article explaining the massive gender gap in higher education:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/8873031/David-Willetts-warns-over-striking-university-gender-gap.html

And your justification for this? A typical feminist excuse - well men have been disproportionately attending university for generation, it's our turn now! A prime example of what I am trying to highlight as a problem in the feminist movement. You are not interesting in equality, you want one over for previous harms you felt have been inflicted.

Here is a research paper stating that men and women are equally violent in relationships:
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/VB23.pdf

The fact that men will obviously be more "successful" in causing injuries is neither here nor there, if for the most part both partners are violent. In 75% of violent households both partners are abusive, the man is just obviously stronger.

Reply 225

lauren_a

Original post by Elipsis

The wage gap is a myth. Well, not a myth, it exists, but have you considered women deserve to be paid less? Once you factor in that they work less hours, do less overtime, work in safer environments, maternity leave, are less likely to rellocate for business, and take more time off sick, you come to the startling realisation that women are in fact being paid more for doing less work. Simple supply and demand shows this argument to be laughable; If women were doing an identical job but for less money, demand for them would increase, and as there is a finite supply their pays would increase to be inline with mens. Seeing as they are paid less, and without artificially upping that wage, it doesn't increase, this is strong evidence that women have lower outputs for the reasons listed above. If you compare childless men and childless women over the age of 40, women are paid much more.

Besides the 2 issues which you have highlighted there are a whole plethora of issues that men face, that are just swept under the carpet thanks to feminism taking all the limelight. Here is a short, but not comprehensive list, of things you might have missed:
- Violence against men is taken less seriously, especially domestic violence
- Depictions of violence against men are funny - kicking in the nuts for instance?
- Assumptions that the women are telling the truth in domestic violence and rape cases, which can result in a male being attacked and ostracised from his community. Further to this, there is an overwhelming view in society that because a man ejaculates he cannot be raped. There is an assumption that when a man is accused by a woman he is presumed guilty, whether or not a trial says otherwise.
- Girls are protected from sexual abuse much more than boys. Statutory rape is enforced much more strongly in cases of men having sex with under 16s.
- Child support
- Cases where women abort babies the man doesn't want aborted or vice versa
- Women regularly receive discounts on things ranging from insurance, to nightclub entry, to clothes. There are also many no-go areas, such as gyms, for men, but not the other way around.
- Men commit suicide 4x more than women (I wonder why this would be, given that in your eyes women lead lives that are so much worse?)
- Men have a lower life span than women
- The majority of the prison population is male
- Men have harder entrance exams for things like the armed forces, and civil services like the fire brigade
- 94% of work place fatalities were male
- Men are disproportionately homeless, and much more likely to work in disgusting jobs such as down a sewer. This is known as the glass basement, and it is something that is far more important than the glass ceiling.

So you see, men have dozens of issues that aren't even known about - even by ardent feminists such as yourself who claim to care about mens equality.

Just going to deal with these one by one, for simplicity's sake.

•

- Yes, domestic violence against men is taken less seriously than domestic violence against women and that is awful. However, that is not the fault of feminism. In fact, ti goes against everything feminists stand for. The typical view of women as weak, helpless victims is something I despise and certainly do not condone.
- Again, this is nothing to do with your argument. Did feminists have a massive contribution to the macho culture (as seen in programmes like Jackass) that involves kicking other men in the nuts and laughing, that I am somehow unaware of?
- I'm pretty sure that the instances of women lying about being raped or abused are fewer and far between than genuine cases of assault. Also, court processes involve 'proof beyond all reasonable doubt', not 'assumptions'. There have been various cases where it has been proved that a man did not rape a woman, and I'd love to see the evidence that society ignored this ruling in all of these cases. Miscarriages of justice and mob culture are not things that apply only to men, they are issues that effect society as a whole.
- Just recently there have been two cases of women having sex with underage boys, both of which were convicted. I have never seen a case where it is simply laughed off or ignored.
- What about child support?
- I agree this is a tentative issue, but essentially I believe the decision should be the woman's. The baby grows in her body and is her responsibility for those nine months. After that, assuming a typical - rather than ideal - domestic setup, she will be expected to take on the majority of its care.
- Women are no longer going to get cheaper car insurance, I believe. However, that was based on the fact that statistically, women are safer drivers.
- I completely agree that cheaper nightclub entry for women is disgusting. But this matter effects women too. Do you think we enjoy the concept of being ushered into a club for less money because the club wants a load of drunk, dancing women inside to entice men in? It's just another example of the objectification of women in society.
- Men commit suicide four times more than women. Again, this is nothing to do with feminism. It's also nothing to do with rights as a whole. It may be an indicator of issues within society, but it may also indicate issues such as mental health. Either way, it's a choice.
- Men having a lower life span than women is nothing to do with feminism. It's a shame, but it's a medical issue. The life span question is constantly being addressed by medical professionals - to a ridiculous extent, I believe.
- The majority of the prison population is male. Statistically, men commit more crimes - especially violent ones - than women. Go figure.
- Men have harder exams for these things than whom? Women performing the exact same roles? Show me the evidence.
- 94% of workplace fatalities were probably male because men tend to take on the more dangerous, manual jobs. They are not conscripted into these jobs, they have a choice just like women do.
- I'm sorry that you believe that men being more likely to work in sewers is more important than women not being able to achieve their full potential. I believe both are big issues, but it's important to remember that it is more likely that boys will leave school with fewer than 5 A*-C GCSEs, meaning they are more likely to take on manual labour.

Also, again, don't patronise me. I was fully aware of the majority of these issues. And some I'm not even sure you have evidence for.

Reply 226

Original post by Parenchyma

Just laughed myself sick. Just want to point this out as possibly the most hilariously stupid thing you have said so far. Good effort.

Proving my point further about feminazis :smile:

Why should women be able to abort in order to protect their future (and this is why the majority of abortions are carried out), when men can't sign a piece of paper saying they won't be having anything to do with it? Women have the power to protect their future, or decide they will be unfit mothers or the environment will be bad, but men have no recourse whatsoever. Furthermore, men can and do end up having their child aborted because the women are using at a weapon. Imagine if this were the other way around - it would be a massive point for the feminists to beat their drums over.

Reply 227

Original post by lauren_a

Just going to deal with these one by one, for simplicity's sake.

•

- Yes, domestic violence against men is taken less seriously than domestic violence against women and that is awful. However, that is not the fault of feminism. In fact, ti goes against everything feminists stand for. The typical view of women as weak, helpless victims is something I despise and certainly do not condone.
- Again, this is nothing to do with your argument. Did feminists have a massive contribution to the macho culture (as seen in programmes like Jackass) that involves kicking other men in the nuts and laughing, that I am somehow unaware of?
- I'm pretty sure that the instances of women lying about being raped or abused are fewer and far between than genuine cases of assault. Also, court processes involve 'proof beyond all reasonable doubt', not 'assumptions'. There have been various cases where it has been proved that a man did not rape a woman, and I'd love to see the evidence that society ignored this ruling in all of these cases. Miscarriages of justice and mob culture are not things that apply only to men, they are issues that effect society as a whole.
- Just recently there have been two cases of women having sex with underage boys, both of which were convicted. I have never seen a case where it is simply laughed off or ignored.
- What about child support?
- I agree this is a tentative issue, but essentially I believe the decision should be the woman's. The baby grows in her body and is her responsibility for those nine months. After that, assuming a typical - rather than ideal - domestic setup, she will be expected to take on the majority of its care.
- Women are no longer going to get cheaper car insurance, I believe. However, that was based on the fact that statistically, women are safer drivers.
- I completely agree that cheaper nightclub entry for women is disgusting. But this matter effects women too. Do you think we enjoy the concept of being ushered into a club for less money because the club wants a load of drunk, dancing women inside to entice men in? It's just another example of the objectification of women in society.
- Men commit suicide four times more than women. Again, this is nothing to do with feminism. It's also nothing to do with rights as a whole. It may be an indicator of issues within society, but it may also indicate issues such as mental health. Either way, it's a choice.
- Men having a lower life span than women is nothing to do with feminism. It's a shame, but it's a medical issue. The life span question is constantly being addressed by medical professionals - to a ridiculous extent, I believe.
- The majority of the prison population is male. Statistically, men commit more crimes - especially violent ones - than women. Go figure.
- Men have harder exams for these things than whom? Women performing the exact same roles? Show me the evidence.
- 94% of workplace fatalities were probably male because men tend to take on the more dangerous, manual jobs. They are not conscripted into these jobs, they have a choice just like women do.
- I'm sorry that you believe that men being more likely to work in sewers is more important than women not being able to achieve their full potential. I believe both are big issues, but it's important to remember that it is more likely that boys will leave school with fewer than 5 A*-C GCSEs, meaning they are more likely to take on manual labour.

Also, again, don't patronise me. I was fully aware of the majority of these issues. And some I'm not even sure you have evidence for.

Ok, so I take it you accept that the wage gap is a fallacy and that women deserve to be paid less? Great, you can stop chatting that bs with all your feminist pals, and stop campaigning with your sistaz over this non-issue :smile:

- It is feminisms fault that men's domestic violence is taken less seriously than females domestic violence. There was a point where domestic violence against women was treated as mens is today, but feminists onesidedly campaigned over this issue and drew societies attentions and sympathies towards women's plight and not mens. And further to this, women such as paren feel it is perfectly acceptable to laugh such things off.

- Feminists didn't play a role in Jackass being created. That has nothing to do with it. I have little problem with slapstick violence for jokes, and if a woman got bowling balls dropped on her tits i'd laugh just as much. I am talking about things like men being slapped by women in TV shows and it being a non-issue cus he must deserve it, while when the reverse happens that is a massive deal even if the woman cheated on the man. Or things like women's panel shows laughing at men having their penis chopped off by a disgruntled wife.

- Men are much more likely to just be given a high five if they manage to sleep with an older women, whereas if the opposite happens then the girl must have been manipulated. Here is an example: http://reason.com/archives/2002/06/04/double-standard

- Men are more likely to have to pay child support for children they never wanted, or don't get to see. There have even been cases of men being forced to pay retroactive child support for children they didn't know existed, or worse still child support for children made out of their frozen sperm:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1392045/Man-ordered-pay-100-000-children-ex-wife-tricks-clinic-using-frozen-sperm.html

- Men do not suffer from higher rates of mental health. Indeed the reverse is true - women are twice as likely to suffer major depression, and there is no marked difference in other mental disorders such as manic depression. The fact that men commit suicide 4x more than women would be a huge issue if the reverse were true, and it is just society showing a gleaming example of how a woman's life is sacred and a man is disposable. To write this off as just being a choice is stupid, if men are choosing to do it more than women it is a clear indication of some sort of extra problem in society they feel they can't overcome.

- It hasn't been proven that men have a lower life span than women because of biology. It could be because they work longer, and harder, than women. In environments that are not conducive to good health, like with asbestos. Or it could be that they have, and will for a while yet, worked at least 5-10 years longer than their female counter parts. (I didn't seem feminists giving a flying-f about the fact women were getting an extra 5 years off, despite living 5-10 years longer than men, did you?)

- If 94% of workplace fatalities were female, maybe the pay gap would be the other way around? Women can't expect identical pay when they don't see nearly the same risks.

- Here is a simple table, on the MOD's website, which will show you that women have lower physical requirements for identical jobs in the army:
http://www.army.mod.uk/join/20153.aspx

They will also go on to be paid the same as men, despite the fact they die at rates of less than 1:100. Lower physical standards for women is the same across every job in the military, the police force, and the fire service. Do thank your sistaz for me, won't you :smile:

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 228

Original post by Elipsis

Of course men can get breast cancer, but they get it at rates far far lower than women. Please don't try and brush it off so simplistically, it is embarressing. Here is an article explaining the gaps between breast cancer and prostate cancer funding and attention:
http://dailycaller.com/2010/10/05/breast-cancer-receives-much-more-research-funding-publicity-than-prostate-cancer-despite-similar-number-of-victims/ You will notice that breast cancer gets over twice the amount of funding and time as prostate cancer, and has done so for at least a decade, despite it affecting the same number of people.

I don't know what that has to do with the UK (I have never heard of this source, it's an opinion article, and it's about the USA), but don't embarress yourself by ignoring my actual point about sexism. I'll break it into short sentences for you. People are more interested in breast cancer because it's sexualised. Breast cancer is sexualised because it's seen a female, and in a sexist society that makes it sexual. Prostate cancer is not sexualised because it's seen as male. Any clearer?

Here is an article explaining the massive gender gap in higher education:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/8873031/David-Willetts-warns-over-striking-university-gender-gap.html

Well done, a source from the UK. Lets see- oh, what a same, you've missed the point again. EVEN IF MORE WOMEN ARE EDUCATED, WE STILL EARN LESS FOR OUR QUALIFICATIONS. The wage gap is real and you can read about it here: http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=321 and see a nice diagram here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14721839 :smile:

And your justification for this? A typical feminist excuse - well men have been disproportionately attending university for generation, it's our turn now! A prime example of what I am trying to highlight as a problem in the feminist movement. You are not interesting in equality, you want one over for previous harms you felt have been inflicted.

Don't tell me what I want or what I'm saying or what I'm interested in, you misguided idiot. This is so far wrong that I could spend hours and pages explaining why but I am going to leave this with a giant no, please, miss the point more, it's so much fun.

Here is a research paper stating that men and women are equally violent in relationships:
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/VB23.pdf

The fact that men will obviously be more "successful" in causing injuries is neither here nor there, if for the most part both partners are violent. In 75% of violent households both partners are abusive, the man is just obviously stronger.

A few points:
- How old is this thing?
- I highly doubt you've even read this.
- It's not about the UK, making it (not completely irrelevant but) far less relevant.
- It actually even says that women get hurt more, and that is my point too.
- Thanks again for ignoring the main point about sexism, as if it doesn't exist.
- Try http://www.whiteribboncampaign.co.uk/Resources/violence_against_women for some actual statistics about the extent of the problem of physical violence against women, or if you like, just consider violent language 'I raped that test!', the violence that is forcing a woman to carry an unwanted foetus to term and then deliver it, have to defend herself against advances in the street, have things shouted at her for being female in public, I could go on and on.

Reply 229

Original post by Elipsis

Proving my point further about feminazis :smile:

Why should women be able to abort in order to protect their future (and this is why the majority of abortions are carried out), when men can't sign a piece of paper saying they won't be having anything to do with it? Women have the power to protect their future, or decide they will be unfit mothers or the environment will be bad, but men have no recourse whatsoever. Furthermore, men can and do end up having their child aborted because the women are using at a weapon. Imagine if this were the other way around - it would be a massive point for the feminists to beat their drums over.

Feminism: when world war, genocide and tyranny just won't do.
See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Anyway, I can't even form a proper reply to this, except for: not your uterus, not your business. You are hilarious.

Reply 230

rad_student

Original post by Parenchyma

Just laughed myself sick. Just want to point this out as possibly the most hilariously stupid thing you have said so far. Good effort.

This is being discussed in Responsibility of a man to care for a child..
Maybe read some of the posts in this thread before making some of your lazy comments in this thread. In my posts I have placed a lot of citations so that you can understand how & why things happen. OPEN your eyes :eek:

.
I have been showing that men die earlier & the reasons behind that is the Ultimate (effect of) Oppression. Quickest link I've used before is at SexismBusters & I can get more citations for Elipsis.

Reply 231

Original post by rad_student

This is being discussed in Responsibility of a man to care for a child..
Maybe read some of the posts in this thread before making some of your lazy comments in this thread. In my posts I have placed a lot of citations so that you can understand how & why things happen. OPEN your eyes :eek:

.
I have been showing that men die earlier & the reasons behind that is the Ultimate (effect of) Oppression. Quickest link I've used before is at SexismBusters & I can get more citations for Elipsis.

Oh please, explain to me how things happen. I need your paternalism or else I am just lost. Talk down to me more, it really helps your point.

After having the misfortune to actually read part of that link, I can happily tell Elipsis that his opinions on abortion access has been bumped to #2 of the stupidest things I've read today.

Reply 232

rad_student

Original post by Parenchyma

Oh please, explain to me how things happen. I need your paternalism or else I am just lost. Talk down to me more, it really helps your point.

After having the misfortune to actually read part of that link, I can happily tell Elipsis that his opinions on abortion access has been bumped to #2 of the stupidest things I've read today.

Don't play the helpless victim with me, surely you can navigate TSR yourself read some of the posts & links...come to a conclusion. I was saying don't be lazy & use your analysis after you have read. I have no plans to talk down to you, if I had to then I am not skilled to teach stuff to primary school kids & I'd stop.

A few funnies, save you looking through the posts:
The gender pay gap is to do with job CHOICES. Its a choice to have children, if not then women'd earn more. Company cost is MORE paying maternity leave & a replacement - so she may earn less, but has cost more for the same productivity. In medicine when too many women become pregnant for maternity leave, its not EVEN possible to get replacements & patients suffer.
Business Week 2008 "It's that study after study has found women doctors tend to work 20% to 25% fewer hours than their male counterparts" & it mentions a GP in British Medical Journal saying too many Female Medical Graduates.
A leader, Dame Carol Black tried to reverse it in 2004, but I think its too late.
So, more tax money into the NHS on wages, yet longer time to see a hospital doctor, a growing waiting list, early death & more pain for some. Its better to be ill now then in a few years! Private companies need to make a profit hence lose staff, that's why there are is more inefficiency in the Govt. we are paying for it.

Childless women in their 20s earn MORE then men. Should we look forward to women paying for dates? Or happy for the man to give up his career (or not have one) to be a househusband? :wink:

It won't be common as women are naturally into hypergamy. In capitalism if women truly earnt less, all businesses would be falling over themselves to hire women.

Warren Farrel a 3 times Director of NOW (pure feminism), was able to explain the pay gap myth.
From "Why Men Earn More: The Startling Truth Behind the Pay Gap - and What Women Can Do About It" book: more pay where you do jobs with danger money (oil rig), work unsociable hours (night shift on new years eve), commute longer & travel extensively (sales), not take career breaks (pregnancy/sabbaticals), stay with 1 employer, do 60+ hour jobs/overtime (CEOs), less holidays & take more risks (entrepreneur), work in an inhospitable environment (mining), less absence from work, be willing to relocate inc overseas, have dependents or a partner who does not work, take on different & bigger responsibilities even with the same job title (precursor to promotion), less secure jobs (commission), willing to pay for their own advanced education (PhD/internship), produce MORE.

www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=321 highlights choice by The Motherhood Penalty & More women in part-time work, but ignores Govt. handouts. It talks about median gross weekly pay for male single parents is more, ignoring that women get >80% of sole custody & hence enforced support from the father.
www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/mar/08/international-womens-day-pay-gap# - article shows men's median pay more for same job description. Nurses & Nursing auxiliaries and assistants show that men's median pay is more, given that 92% of these people are women - anyone really think such domination could discriminate women?! Nursing became a graduate profession in the '90s and since then there has been a huge increase in the number of men who choose to join that profession. Additionally, there is a branch of nursing that has always attracted men - psychiatric nursing (forensic psychiatric nursing, in particular.)

'Oh wait... there's more...' :biggrin:

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 233

Original post by rad_student

This is being discussed in Responsibility of a man to care for a child..
Maybe read some of the posts in this thread before making some of your lazy comments in this thread. In my posts I have placed a lot of citations so that you can understand how & why things happen. OPEN your eyes :eek:

.
I have been showing that men die earlier & the reasons behind that is the Ultimate (effect of) Oppression. Quickest link I've used before is at SexismBusters & I can get more citations for Elipsis.

It appears she isn't slightly interesting in challenging her preconcieved notions, which she has allowed to be unquestioningly poured into her head by the likes of Germaine Greer etc. I believe it is called cognitive dissonance. Feminists, like our ideologically driven brainless friend here, are more than happy to uphold the 'lace curtain' (http://www.menweb.org/lacecur1.htm), which stops them having to hear a dissenting opinion that might fry their squirrel sized brains.

Reply 234

SomeoneSaveMeNow

I find femenism and the majority of feminists utterly disgusting and reprehensible.
It's only good when it works in their favour and they get what they want.

Reply 235

Emaemmaemily

18

Original post by JordanR

I'm all for equal rights, but I don't think women should get preferential treatment. A great example is Wimbledon: if they want to get paid as much as the guys, they should play as many games as the guys. Now they get paid a significant amount more per match than their male counterparts do.

The thing I think people don't necessarily understand about this is the physical differences between men and women (because most differences between us are physical, rather than intellectual or alike). For a woman to play 3 sets takes about as much physical effort for her as it would for a man to play 5. They have much less physical ability in certain areas, which is why they need to play less.
They still put in the same amount of physical effort and exhaustion, and so should be paid the same as men, in my opinion.

Reply 236

james22

16

Original post by Emaemmaemily

The thing I think people don't necessarily understand about this is the physical differences between men and women (because most differences between us are physical, rather than intellectual or alike). For a woman to play 3 sets takes about as much physical effort for her as it would for a man to play 5. They have much less physical ability in certain areas, which is why they need to play less.
They still put in the same amount of physical effort and exhaustion, and so should be paid the same as men, in my opinion.

Thats just like saying a stupid who work on till at tesco who work just as hard as the managers should be paid the same because they put in the same amount of effot. People should be paid on what they do, not how much effot they put into it.

Reply 237

lauren_a

Original post by rad_student

Don't play the helpless victim with me, surely you can navigate TSR yourself read some of the posts & links...come to a conclusion. I was saying don't be lazy & use your analysis after you have read. I have no plans to talk down to you, if I had to then I am not skilled to teach stuff to primary school kids & I'd stop.

A few funnies, save you looking through the posts:
The gender pay gap is to do with job CHOICES. Its a choice to have children, if not then women'd earn more. Company cost is MORE paying maternity leave & a replacement - so she may earn less, but has cost more for the same productivity. In medicine when too many women become pregnant for maternity leave, its not EVEN possible to get replacements & patients suffer.
Business Week 2008 "It's that study after study has found women doctors tend to work 20% to 25% fewer hours than their male counterparts" & it mentions a GP in British Medical Journal saying too many Female Medical Graduates.
A leader, Dame Carol Black tried to reverse it in 2004, but I think its too late.
So, more tax money into the NHS on wages, yet longer time to see a hospital doctor, a growing waiting list, early death & more pain for some. Its better to be ill now then in a few years! Private companies need to make a profit hence lose staff, that's why there are is more inefficiency in the Govt. we are paying for it.

Childless women in their 20s earn MORE then men. Should we look forward to women paying for dates? Or happy for the man to give up his career (or not have one) to be a househusband? :wink:

It won't be common as women are naturally into hypergamy. In capitalism if women truly earnt less, all businesses would be falling over themselves to hire women.

Warren Farrel a 3 times Director of NOW (pure feminism), was able to explain the pay gap myth.
From "Why Men Earn More: The Startling Truth Behind the Pay Gap - and What Women Can Do About It" book: more pay where you do jobs with danger money (oil rig), work unsociable hours (night shift on new years eve), commute longer & travel extensively (sales), not take career breaks (pregnancy/sabbaticals), stay with 1 employer, do 60+ hour jobs/overtime (CEOs), less holidays & take more risks (entrepreneur), work in an inhospitable environment (mining), less absence from work, be willing to relocate inc overseas, have dependents or a partner who does not work, take on different & bigger responsibilities even with the same job title (precursor to promotion), less secure jobs (commission), willing to pay for their own advanced education (PhD/internship), produce MORE.

www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=321 highlights choice by The Motherhood Penalty & More women in part-time work, but ignores Govt. handouts. It talks about median gross weekly pay for male single parents is more, ignoring that women get >80% of sole custody & hence enforced support from the father.
www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/mar/08/international-womens-day-pay-gap# - article shows men's median pay more for same job description. Nurses & Nursing auxiliaries and assistants show that men's median pay is more, given that 92% of these people are women - anyone really think such domination could discriminate women?! Nursing became a graduate profession in the '90s and since then there has been a huge increase in the number of men who choose to join that profession. Additionally, there is a branch of nursing that has always attracted men - psychiatric nursing (forensic psychiatric nursing, in particular.)

'Oh wait... there's more...' :biggrin:

You completely misunderstand the wage gap. It references men and women doing the same jobs so all your nonsense about men doing more risky jobs etc is irrelevant, regardless of whether or not it is true.

Reply 238