Feminism!

A bit OT but how much is that decision down to the individual and how much is down to society?

It's an interesting question, one I have been thinking more and more about recently. We assume the primacy if the individual in our society but possibly it is part nonsense...it is pretty obvious that our circumstances, and other 'social forces' guide and conditions 'choices' to some extent.

I think why I was about 18 the idea of joining the military might have seemed quite cool. Now I am bit older I would consider it no cool at all and would tell my 18 y/o self that if I could.

Four years at an all-girls school taught me that women, perhaps even more than men, are guilty of accepting and perpetuating stupid, unhelpful stereotypes about females.

This may seem like an overly flippant opinion (which is directed at nobody in particular), but I think that being a genuinely effective feminist involves more doing and less talking. I don't think you can ever expect to overcome systematic bias by telling someone to stop being biased. These kinds of cultural expectations are woven into our society at a deep level, and are too ingrained to be really vulnerable to argument. If you really want to change the collective attitude toward women, I would argue that the best thing you can do as a woman is to focus on being awesome in interesting, unexpected ways. If you feel women don't get the respect they deserve, figure out what you think makes someone worthy of respect and then strive to cultivate whatever qualities or achievements you think are important. Nothing will teach someone to reevaluate how he or she sees the world quite so effectively as experiencing the world differently.

As a slight aside, I also think that feminism does itself a huge disservice by attacking men. Four years at an all-girls school taught me that women, perhaps even more than men, are guilty of accepting and perpetuating stupid, unhelpful stereotypes about females. Feminism shouldn't be a question of women versus men. It should be a question of trying to give women an equal footing with men in a way that puts everyone on the same team. Both genders are capable of being idiotic and ridiculous, but both genders are also capable of being creative and clever and experiencing the world in complex ways.

- I think the male bashing comes from women who no longer need men as the state is providing, prefer women or they r so ahead/focused, that men are not required. I think it is becoming the norm/acceptable to be alone, especially as there are many distractions to compensate like social network.

You are right that the State has appropriated what might be deemed the role of The Father in our civilisation, i.e provider, law maker, sovereign over life and death if you like, that is quite Freudian but on a practical level is provides for say single mothers on welfare etc.

FYI I think women who are genuinely getting so far ahead and focused etc would not have time to reflect on how much they hate men, and 'male bash', so I think that doesn't make sense as a total explanation.

I still think women and men tend to desire one another, just now that is alienated from the economic functions of men and women being together, and in some cases economic 'needs' (fetishes?) are contary to desire (i.e committed career women with no time for men) . Some of the tension and disconnect could stem from something like that as we go against our nature more and more.

Disliking all the men that r above them in the job hierarchy? Or on a girl's night out, or discussing at women-only times at the gym/swimming pool?
I do read (unconfirmed) that feminists collude against the neutral women, so yes it is forcing their beliefs on more than just men.

Even going against one's nature means the brain adapts, normalises it (certain neural pathways are unactivated) & as long as the person doesn't think about it, feels less.

snozzle: "I think 'identities' based on victimhood (real or perceived) is a defining feature of our civilisation."
'I'm drowning & you're describing the water' from As Good As It Gets.
It is the usage & how/where it is applied that matters. E.g. by supporting the misandric demonising of boys/men certain parts of the industry justify more funding. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKXVcUSBKH4
Also controlling media content creates a un/desirable identity, who does or does not deserve targetting, is that how Hitler worked? This prevents right in the world.

Precisely. They managed to get the other half of the population into work, and the result hasn't been families being twice as well of as before. Call something a 'right' and for some reason people will fight to have it. Instead of 1 parent bringing up children and the other bringing in the money why don't you increase your workload so that both of you are now working and attempting to bring up your children. And remember. It's your right as a woman to be able to do this...

To clarify. I'm not saying women should unable to go to work far from it. They should have the exact same working rights as men. I'm just saying that perhaps women being encouraged to be a high powered career woman and a mother isn't exactly a good thing.

Ah good old feminism - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2116695/Dermot-gets-groped-woman-X-Factor-auditions.html

Come on feminists. You pipe up when you are ridiculed in football saying that you should have equal rights and so forth and that it's not a mans' sport solely. A woman slaps a man behind and it's all fine and dandy yet if the other way around was to happen - ? need I say? Says alot about women actually. Vulgar lot.

Come on feminists ... what you gotta say

I don't find it 'all fine and dandy' actually - I think that's pretty disgusting behaviour. I get extremely offended when people do that to me and I don't think it's OK because a man happens to be the victim. He had no choice but to make out he was fine with it because he would have been mocked if he'd been offended. This is an issue that needs to be dealt with but men themselves need to start saying when they feel someone is being sexually inappropriate so that people know it is unacceptable. It doesn't say a lot about women because that was one woman's actions. I don't think that all men are molesters just because I've been groped on several occasions. But the fact remains that this is something experienced by women much more than it is experienced by men.

Btw Daily Mail is not a great source if you're looking for a feminist response on an issue.

Rubbish.

Men need to speak up when they are being touched up? Read that sentence over woman, you sound guilty. You're just manipulating it in a way that makes it sound as if men are responsible for not having spoken out about it and because of that, touching on the bum might be just fine ey?

It does say alot about women. What it says is alot when you really look at it. A woman thinks she can just touch a dudes bum in front of all the camera crew knowing full well this could be broadcast to the world. That says alot about women and the cheek they have to think they can do as they please. It's not just the individual who did it. It represents something about woman ... the idea that they can actually do this as if it is fine. Would a man dare rub Cheryl Cole's bum and pull faces like it's funny to all the press? Not in a million years. And not just that ... could you imagine if some balding, fat ugly bloke had his hand on Cheryl's bum - imagine the outrage from females. All the 'creep :/' quotes you girls come out with and basically a full scale assasination of the man in question. You'd be labelling him a perv, a creep and so on and on.

And then you cry for equality?

Women have got some serious serious double standard issues.

Absolutely disgusting frankly.

Perhaps. Although just because it's a social imperative it doesn't mean it's by any means a bad thing. There is absolutely nothing wrong with women desiring to be stay at home mothers, although at the same time I don't think there should be anything wrong with men wanting to be stay at home fathers. (Obviously so long as it is financially doable). To clarify I'm by no means suggesting that the only way to be a good parent is by staying at home, and not working to bring up your child.

ah good old feminism http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2122645/Our-secret-weapon-Two-thirds-British-women-use-cleavage-ahead-life-finds-Wonderbra-poll.html

Good old sex-obsessed men who encourage this sort of stuff by only paying attention to women when they show cleavage.

Feminism outside Iran and Saudi Arabia is an unfunny joke and 100% obsolete. Its just an excuse for bitter spotty women to sit round a table crying about men and how repressed they are because woman still has "man" in it.