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Feminism!

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    (Original post by When you see it...)
    It is just a word. Any equivalent pro-male movement would be completely differrent as men aren't really oppressed. It would be like a white Malcolm X complaining that black people have rewritten history and that white people created civilisation and that white people were enslaved by blacks in recent history. It would just be a stupid movement with a misguided agenda based on lies. Women need emancipation, men do not. Therefore, a 'masculinist' movement would be completely different. Also, my objections to such a movement would not be due to its name (as names are just names - get over it) but due to its agenda. Are you offended by the BNP because they are called the BNP? No, you are offended by them because of what meaning their name holds and what they represent.
    Feminism is a pro-male movement though. I've noticed that a lot of campaigners for 'Men's Rights' actually want the same thing as Feminists... not that any of them would listen, as they're frothing at the mouth and incoherent at the mere mention of 'The F Word'.
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    Extreme feminists annoy me. What are they still fighting for today? Barely anything.

    Other than equal pay, I don't see what else they're fighting for. Times have changed. Yeah, gender discrimination may still happen, but there's anti-discrimination acts for that stuff.

    Feminists = whinging, man-haters.

    And this is coming from a woman...
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    (Original post by twohanprincess)
    I am all for equality, but I think the word 'feminism' may be interpreted as being a sexist word... If a male group called themselves 'masculinists', would this be seen as acceptable?
    "Masculinists" do exist as a thing.
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    (Original post by Michael Locke)
    Feminism is a pro-male movement though. I've noticed that a lot of campaigners for 'Men's Rights' actually want the same thing as Feminists... not that any of them would listen, as they're frothing at the mouth and incoherent at the mere mention of 'The F Word'.
    Feminists like the OP are the pretty much the reason for this. Also old feminists in the media, younger feminists though (OP excluded) are generally pretty cool even if they stil believe in fairy tales like the gender pay gap.
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    When will people realise men and women aren't actually equal? We are structurally different. Our brains are programmed differently. Men and women serve different purposes. The problem isn't with the purposes we serve, but people's attitudes towards the purposes.

    Now of course in a world with over 6 billion people. and evolution being what it is, there are going to be anomalies. For example, as a generalisation men are physically superior to women. Yet there are still plenty of women out there who could put up a good fight, and also plenty of beta males who are too pussy to fight. Now if you want to use these anomalies to justify equal rights, why then don't humans and animals deserve equal rights? There are some humans that are less intelligent than many animals, for whatever reason.

    My point is that neither man or woman is more deserving of anything, but one must realise that there are differences. Most people don't understand one bit about equal rights and just assume that as a female they deserve special treatment. If equal rights were as equal as people seem to want them to be, there would be no distinguishing between male and female fashion, gender just wouldn't matter, and we need gender procreation. If men didn't look at females in a different way to males, we wouldn't find you attractive, and if females looked at males in the same way, they wouldn't find us attractive.

    We need the differences, and we need to stop associating a negative meaning to the word "different".
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    Feminism outside Iran and Saudi Arabia is an unfunny joke and 100% obsolete. Its just an excuse for bitter spotty women to sit round a table crying about men and how repressed they are because woman still has "man" in it.
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    (Original post by Samurai_Jack)
    As a part of a developing nation where gender discrimination is more conspicuous than any where else, I would have to say that among the biggest discrimination is the fact that women are just automatically assumed solely for the role of a wife and mother. It rarely occurs to people that they can have a career and motherhood. If the world wants to promote equality, the first thing to be done is not cut wages because of maternity benefits. Because come on, women are penalized for continuing the world race while men goes on to become the executives! Not fair!
    Holy **** :lolwut: Please tell me this post isn't serious? :lolwut:
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    (Original post by When you see it...)
    It is just a word. Any equivalent pro-male movement would be completely differrent as men aren't really oppressed. It would be like a white Malcolm X complaining that black people have rewritten history and that white people created civilisation and that white people were enslaved by blacks in recent history. It would just be a stupid movement with a misguided agenda based on lies. Women need emancipation, men do not. Therefore, a 'masculinist' movement would be completely different. Also, my objections to such a movement would not be due to its name (as names are just names - get over it) but due to its agenda. Are you offended by the BNP because they are called the BNP? No, you are offended by them because of what meaning their name holds and what they represent.
    :lies:
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    (Original post by When you see it...)
    That is just one issue which obviously needs to be addressed. There is no point in basing a comprehensive political viewpoint (i.e. 'masculinism') on such individual viewpoints. Once women are paid the same as men (the statistics don't lie regardless of your personal experience - if someone said to you 'I have shot a lot of heroin in my time and have never been harmed, therefore it is stupid to say that heroin is harmful therefore drugs education should not exist', you would think that they are an obnoxious moron - that is exactly how I have reacted to your post) then we can concentrate on these microcosmic issues of men being 'oppressed' (IMO it is a moot point as I disagree with family values and believe children should be raised communally, eliminating the need for fathers and mothers, making this a non-issue). Anyway, I respect your viewpoint but strongly disagree with just about everything you have said here. Feminism is just a word to describe a set of opinions on a set of issues. Believing in feminism doesn't mean that I don't sympathise with male concerns, I just think that male concerns are less urgent.
    Can I just say that in your comment you seem to be implying that women have the same opportunities as men. This is not true and there is no debate there - look at employment/salary statistics and compare them to qualifications statistics. It is a joke to suggest that 'in the past it was worse, so therefore we have improved enough already'. What is your opinion on the black emancipation in the US in the 1960s? Do you think that the likes of Malcolm X and Rosa Parks were wrong to try to give blacks the same opportunities as whites? If you were around in those days, would you have said 'blacks were slaves in history, therefore it is stupid to complain about having to stand up for whites'? You can't deny that gender inequality still exists and that it is worse for women than for men.
    :doctor::lies:
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    (Original post by Dr Good Manners)
    Feminism outside Iran and Saudi Arabia is an unfunny joke and 100% obsolete. Its just an excuse for bitter spotty women to sit round a table crying about men and how repressed they are because woman still has "man" in it.
    Agreed!
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    (Original post by When you see it...)
    Also, I think when I wrote it that I was angry about how women got less prestigious jobs despite being better qualified (i.e. exam results), so I should have written 'despite being, on average, better qualified and better suited to well-paid jobs'.
    Why do you think women get worse jobs? Employers want the best people, they don't set out to discriminate as not taking the best person for the job would lose money. A lot of employers don't want their employees to be gone for most the a year if they decide to have a baby. Thats why they pay less, its just capitalism at work, not discrimination.
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    (Original post by When you see it...)
    No, I am against the idea of war and armies altogether. If we had a world country, there would be no international conflict, so there wouldn't be a 'front line', so this would be a non-issue. There would be civil wars, but believe that anyone should be able to fight in a civil war, but no-one should be made to fight in a civil war (i.e. no conscription) and the only people fighting will actually believe in the cause that they are fighting for rather than having soldiers hide behind the excuse 'I'm only following orders' when they commit atrocities.
    :nospam::doctor:
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    (Original post by Tapner)
    Excuse my ignorance, but I've never properly understood what feminism is. I have a basic knowledge, but nothing more. Could someone explain it to me please?So basically feminists seek equal rights for women in comparison to men? Surely in the majority of first world countries that's the case anyway? I assume they also attempt to eradicate gender roles/stereotypes?
    Feminist in the western and developed countries wish for world domination and hate men. In under-developed countries they wish for equality with men.
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    (Original post by Snowman1234)
    Why should companies subsidise women for having children? I don't think it's a human right or particularly noble. How about companies subsidise everyone for a year, you can spend that year how ever you like, travel the world, learn chinese, read shackespeare...or just watch TV if you like! I don't see any of these as inherantly of less merit than breeding.
    Just watching TV for a year is of no less merit than the continuation of the human race? You realise even to the staunchest anti-feminist that makes absolutely no sense, right?
    A practical solution to reduce/completely eliminate (depending on your point of view) the gender pay gap would be to keep the requirement of employers to pay maternity leave, but to allow them to claim the entire cost back from the government. Equality is surely the responsibility of the state, not private companies.

    (Original post by Snowman1234)
    OR more sensibly we could just share parental leave between mother and father, better for everyone involved imo
    I don't agree with equal parental leave, though. Childbirth takes a huge toll on womens' bodies. Minds, too, since post partum depression is quite common.
    See, childbirth and the first year of looking after a baby IS harder than 'watching TV for year' :rolleyes:
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    One of the many problems feminism today faces. Those of you who say feminism is outdated and just today means that women want to oppress men, this is for you.
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    (Original post by X_mark_the_spot)
    That was beautiful. Just saying.

    What particularly gets to me, is the fact that society should deem motherhood and child bearing as an inferior role or job, thus allocating it less respect. Why should the perpetuation of the human race be considered less important than closing corporate mergers and acquisitions? Who's going to close those deals if women decide to play the game and have fewer children? And we wonder why birthrates are declining.

    Biologically, babies do depend on the mother more, but not to the extent that society currently wants us to believe. Outside of feeding, there's no reason why men should not play a more nurturing and involved role in their child's upbringing. If you want to have children, you must be prepared to partake fully in raising them, not just cutting a cheque at the end of the month, and showing up on weekends to give them a peck on the cheek. This is more or less what I saw many men do last year when I worked at an accountancy firm. These men (senior partners) literally travelled three days out of the week, and worked from 7:00am to about 10:00pm. There's no way they're getting home in time to have any meaningful interaction with their children, let alone wife. I bet she has to work a "less demanding" and perhaps menial job in order to make up for his absence. How is this fair?
    This is just so wrong it's almost painful. So these senior partners are working 7-10 days because they want to? Have you considered that perhaps they need to work these hours to provide for their families? And why would their wives have to do another job to 'make up for his abscence'? The whole purpose of said abscence is to ensure that she does not need to work, so she can care for the children.

    The kind of ignorance displayed in this post is the kind of thing I see with feminism all the time - using seemingly 'shocking' observations or statistics to make a point while. Ompletely ignoring the real point. Like with the wage gap, when you see claims that women earn X% less than men, ignoring differences in working hours and such. And I would like to know how there being more democratically elected men in parliament that women could ever be perceived as sexist - half the voters are female you know.
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    (Original post by Domeface)
    This is just so wrong it's almost painful. So these senior partners are working 7-10 days because they want to? Have you considered that perhaps they need to work these hours to provide for their families? And why would their wives have to do another job to 'make up for his abscence'? The whole purpose of said abscence is to ensure that she does not need to work, so she can care for the children.
    Well, this assumption that it has to be the husband out earning the money is an issue for a start. Nothing wrong with it, of course, but it shouldn't be seen as weird or wrong for house-husbands to exist whilst wives go out to work or for both partners to have careers as well as a family.
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    I really don't understand feminism. Women are different to men, that is obvious, and our different roles are outlined in the Bible.
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    (Original post by Ineluctable)
    I really don't understand feminism. Women are different to men, that is obvious, and our different roles are outlined in the Bible.
    Oh you're so right. Time to get rape victims to marry their attackers then :rolleyes:

    If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father fifty skelels of silver, and she shall be his wife, and he may not put her away all of his days (Deut:22; 28-29)
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    (Original post by Aleandcynicism)


    One of the many problems feminism today faces. Those of you who say feminism is outdated and just today means that women want to oppress men, this is for you.

    :lies:
Updated: August 22, 2012
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