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Will I get into Cambridge (or Imperial)? - I'm worried

Im 16 and studying in a state sxith form in North London, with no-one having previously going to Oxbridge. I'd be one of the first to apply to go there, so I have a gut feeling that that may affect the outcome. Or could go for me "stand out of the crowd". Moreover I'm am a black girl, which, unfortunately backed up with evidential data, means that I may have less chance.
In my GCSEs I got 10 A*s, 3 As and 2 Bs, which is among the top 4 or 5 in my school in that year (and the schools history) and at the moment in my A Levels I'm studying Maths, Further Maths, Physics, Geography and Design Technology (yeah I'm a nerd :P) and predicted As and A*s throughout. I wanna study mechanical engineering so I wanna apply for Cambridge, Imperial, UCL and other top unis.
In terms of extra circular stuff, I play music a lot, Kung Fu, but nowadays I don't do much and I'm worried that Cambridge (particularly) will only see me as studious and not "broad" enough....
Does anyone have any advice/ top tips on how to get in, and/or improve my portfolio??
Thank you so much xxxxx
(sorry that it's such an essay, I'm really worried :/ )

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Original post by Nia_Beth
Im 16 and studying in a state sxith form in North London, with no-one having previously going to Oxbridge. I'd be one of the first to apply to go there, so I have a gut feeling that that may affect the outcome. Or could go for me "stand out of the crowd". Moreover I'm am a black girl, which, unfortunately backed up with evidential data, means that I may have less chance.
In my GCSEs I got 10 A*s, 3 As and 2 Bs, which is among the top 4 or 5 in my school in that year (and the schools history) and at the moment in my A Levels I'm studying Maths, Further Maths, Physics, Geography and Design Technology (yeah I'm a nerd :P) and predicted As and A*s throughout. I wanna study mechanical engineering so I wanna apply for Cambridge, Imperial, UCL and other top unis.
In terms of extra circular stuff, I play music a lot, Kung Fu, but nowadays I don't do much and I'm worried that Cambridge (particularly) will only see me as studious and not "broad" enough....
Does anyone have any advice/ top tips on how to get in, and/or improve my portfolio??
Thank you so much xxxxx
(sorry that it's such an essay, I'm really worried :/ )


Decent GCSE grades, and good A Level predictions...

In terms of Extra Curricula.. I think the general Idea is to show why you'd be better than person x thats applying for the same place on the course...

So if we both applied to the same Course at Cambridge with the Same grades what makes you "better" than me?

How do you relax?
How can you contribute to the College and/or University?
How can you show that you can keep up with the course ( Mainly Grades etc...
How can you show passion and determination for the subject?
Reply 2
1. State school doesn't matter

2. The fact noones previously been to oxbridge doesn't matter

3. Only YOU will affect the outcome

4. Noone cares about race

5. Your GCSE'S are fine.

6. Do 4 AS, 3A2 - more than this is uneccessary and they do not care

7. Everyone applying to the unis you've stated will be predicted all a/a*

8. They don't care about extra circular

9. Judging from interview, I don't think cambridge cared how 'broad' I was
Reply 3
no-one can tell you for sure if you will get in or not but you're working hard and i'm sure if you carry on the way you are, you will get the academics Cambridge demands. Your GCSES are better than mine & I don't do half of the extra stuff you do but I managed to bag an interview at Cambridge & have 2 offers already - one being from Exeter :biggrin:. I also went to a hole of secondary school (I did move to better college, but still) & to add to it I'm coloured myself so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Don't worry about cambridge too much right now, just work on getting the best possible grades you need. Going to my interview and spending the night at Cambridge made me realise 90% of the 'cambridge-is-stuffy' and that you have to be 'perfection' rumors are absolute lies. I am still waiting to find out if I have a place, but since you won't be applying for a long time the only advice I would give you is gain a nice understanding and interest in your degree choice. It's clearly something you're passionate about (or you wouldn't chose it right?) so this won't be a chore & it will be something you can build over time.

Good luck for when you do apply :smile:


EDIT: only like 30% of your PS should be on your extra curricula anyway, and majority of your interview (well mine was) was based of what I said in my PS. So, being broad and doing loads of activities isn't all that neccessary when you probably won't be able to talk about them.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 4
Original post by ieatcheeseyo
Decent GCSE grades, and good A Level predictions...

In terms of Extra Curricula.. I think the general Idea is to show why you'd be better than person x thats applying for the same place on the course...

So if we both applied to the same Course at Cambridge with the Same grades what makes you "better" than me?

How do you relax?
How can you contribute to the College and/or University?
How can you show that you can keep up with the course ( Mainly Grades etc...
How can you show passion and determination for the subject?


Thanks for responding :smile:
How do I relax?
I usually chill and play my guitar or drums, or watch TV or draw - loads of stuff :smile:. (or eat :P)
How can I contribute...?
I am sporty and musical and creative - I love work with people and do fun stuff - I dunno?
How can I show that....?
Im very self motivated and throughout my life ive always wanted to get the best grades; best the best I can be, and I constantly adjust myself to cope with studies etc. also I enjoy a challenge - I work much better under pressure :smile:
How can I show passion...?
I just have an engineering outlook on life - I always tinker (dunno if that's the right word) with things to improve or find out how it works. I want to be a new up and coming engineer in the UK, no matter what it takes
X
Reply 5
Thanks for the responses. Also my school is really pushing for volunteering hours and stuff. Do Cambridge really about that kinda stuff??
Thanks x
Original post by Nia_Beth
Thanks for responding :smile:
How do I relax?
I usually chill and play my guitar or drums, or watch TV or draw - loads of stuff :smile:. (or eat :P)
How can I contribute...?
I am sporty and musical and creative - I love work with people and do fun stuff - I dunno?
How can I show that....?
Im very self motivated and throughout my life ive always wanted to get the best grades; best the best I can be, and I constantly adjust myself to cope with studies etc. also I enjoy a challenge - I work much better under pressure :smile:
How can I show passion...?
I just have an engineering outlook on life - I always tinker (dunno if that's the right word) with things to improve or find out how it works. I want to be a new up and coming engineer in the UK, no matter what it takes
X


BAM!, so already you relax by playing Music
Your quite sporty, Creative and Musical...

so both for relaxing and contribution you could mention music... I play the " ", for my school play I played/Sung " "
For my DofE I learn to play a completely new instrument, I performed " "
Something Like that...

Work will mostly be shown by your grades...
But Not sure maybe summer schools, EPQ will show your "passion" or something like that?

So show that your capable and passionate about Engineering and that your a well rounded student that balances work and your social life/extracurricular activities...

No problem :smile: x
Reply 7
Original post by Nia_Beth
Thanks for the responses. Also my school is really pushing for volunteering hours and stuff. Do Cambridge really about that kinda stuff??
Thanks x


I did a bit of volunteering & put it in my PS but they didn't pick up on it in my interview. Though saying that, you might want to do some because the other uni's you will apply to might like it. I'd say volunteer within in reason - enough to gain something from it- but not too much that it affects your grades or anything. Volunteering will look good on your CV anyway, so it's a win win really.
Original post by Nia_Beth
Im 16 and studying in a state sxith form in North London, with no-one having previously going to Oxbridge. I'd be one of the first to apply to go there, so I have a gut feeling that that may affect the outcome. Or could go for me "stand out of the crowd". Moreover I'm am a black girl, which, unfortunately backed up with evidential data, means that I may have less chance.
In my GCSEs I got 10 A*s, 3 As and 2 Bs, which is among the top 4 or 5 in my school in that year (and the schools history) and at the moment in my A Levels I'm studying Maths, Further Maths, Physics, Geography and Design Technology (yeah I'm a nerd :P) and predicted As and A*s throughout. I wanna study mechanical engineering so I wanna apply for Cambridge, Imperial, UCL and other top unis.
In terms of extra circular stuff, I play music a lot, Kung Fu, but nowadays I don't do much and I'm worried that Cambridge (particularly) will only see me as studious and not "broad" enough....
Does anyone have any advice/ top tips on how to get in, and/or improve my portfolio??
Thank you so much xxxxx
(sorry that it's such an essay, I'm really worried :/ )

You will get into UCL/Imperial as you have the stellar academics and they got plenty black people there. They also don't care one little bit about extracurriculars ( they told us this at the open day) However for Cambridge I think your chances are slim. They let in like one black person a year. Don't let the other "living in a perfect world" TSR users fool you. Black people from crappy north London comps like me and you are looked over when it comes to Oxbridge. Even if it isn't a race thing ( I actually doubt it is these days) I think its because they want a certain "sort" of person hence the detailed interviews, and this "sort" is best produced in a private school. What school/sixth form did you go to? I probably know it. I went Broomfield :smile:


PS I am at UCL and while UCL and Imperial are both on the same level ( like top 3/4 in the country) and UCL is an amazing uni, I have heard that our mechanical engineering department isn't all that. So do some research into that as it could just be the disgruntled mutterings of a failed UCL student lol but that's what I have been hearing. Imperial is obvs amazing for all things engineering.
Reply 9
Thanks. I'm from highlands school and sixth form and apparently it's becoming one of the best schools in th UK according to the head teacher. Does that make a difference? And i really hope Cambridge don't judge mean my race - that out of order tbh :/
Original post by Computerised
You will get into UCL/Imperial as you have the stellar academics and they got plenty black people there. They also don't care one little bit about extracurriculars ( they told us this at the open day) However for Cambridge I think your chances are slim. They let in like one black person a year. Don't let the other "living in a perfect world" TSR users fool you. Black people from crappy north London comps like me and you are looked over when it comes to Oxbridge. Even if it isn't a race thing ( I actually doubt it is these days) I think its because they want a certain "sort" of person hence the detailed interviews, and this "sort" is best produced in a private school. What school/sixth form did you go to? I probably know it. I went Broomfield :smile:


PS I am at UCL and while UCL and Imperial are both on the same level ( like top 3/4 in the country) and UCL is an amazing uni, I have heard that our mechanical engineering department isn't all that. So do some research into that as it could just be the disgruntled mutterings of a failed UCL student lol but that's what I have been hearing. Imperial is obvs amazing for all things engineering.


Theres defiantly a chance but what you said is true...
Imagine Medicine at Cambridge

500 Places
Already 250 are "reserved" for Males/Females

The Majority will be from Private schools
The amount of students that are sons and daughters of Consultants, Professors or people's father's that make "donations"
And yeah, makes you think... GCSE Science exam...

Abdul :L and James are testing a reaction
:colonhash: Im brown aswell, but I dunno, what's it called Multiculturalism?
Certain things are just expected...

Like the acceptance of certain African/Asian students being accepted places...
Even with your grades it's unsure... if you look at the oxford stalking page you'll see that people have been accepted with less than you and rejected with stellar grades.

ECs will matter if they link to your academics.
Original post by Nia_Beth

In terms of extra circular stuff, I play music a lot, Kung Fu, but nowadays I don't do much and I'm worried that Cambridge (particularly) will only see me as studious and not "broad" enough....


Cambridge doesn't care what you do outside your subject. At all. So long as you're enthusiastic about your subject, and bright, it would be perfectly ok for you to be a total social recluse/ one subject bore.

Your grades are fine. Get high ums scores, particularly in maths, and you'll be as much in the game as any other applicant.
Reply 13
Original post by Computerised
You will get into UCL/Imperial as you have the stellar academics and they got plenty black people there. They also don't care one little bit about extracurriculars ( they told us this at the open day) However for Cambridge I think your chances are slim. They let in like one black person a year. Don't let the other "living in a perfect world" TSR users fool you. Black people from crappy north London comps like me and you are looked over when it comes to Oxbridge. Even if it isn't a race thing ( I actually doubt it is these days) I think its because they want a certain "sort" of person hence the detailed interviews, and this "sort" is best produced in a private school. What school/sixth form did you go to? I probably know it. I went Broomfield :smile:


PS I am at UCL and while UCL and Imperial are both on the same level ( like top 3/4 in the country) and UCL is an amazing uni, I have heard that our mechanical engineering department isn't all that. So do some research into that as it could just be the disgruntled mutterings of a failed UCL student lol but that's what I have been hearing. Imperial is obvs amazing for all things engineering.



totally agree with the bolded, but then again Cambridge want unique ways of thinking and thats a quality not exclusive to any group of people. I don't think you should give up all hope though there was a few black people at my interview & i spoke to quite a few people who weren't the private school stereotype and were just like me. Cambridge is TOO unpredictable, and you will never know if you don't try! I was SOOOO wary about applying but its one choice out of 5 and it was an experience.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Computerised
You will get into UCL/Imperial as you have the stellar academics and they got plenty black people there. They also don't care one little bit about extracurriculars ( they told us this at the open day) However for Cambridge I think your chances are slim. They let in like one black person a year. Don't let the other "living in a perfect world" TSR users fool you. Black people from crappy north London comps like me and you are looked over when it comes to Oxbridge. Even if it isn't a race thing ( I actually doubt it is these days) I think its because they want a certain "sort" of person hence the detailed interviews, and this "sort" is best produced in a private school. What school/sixth form did you go to? I probably know it. I went Broomfield :smile:


PS I am at UCL and while UCL and Imperial are both on the same level ( like top 3/4 in the country) and UCL is an amazing uni, I have heard that our mechanical engineering department isn't all that. So do some research into that as it could just be the disgruntled mutterings of a failed UCL student lol but that's what I have been hearing. Imperial is obvs amazing for all things engineering.


The logical fallacy you are committing here is known as cum hoc ergo propter hoc. The literal translation is that you're being a ****.

Stop throwing "racist", "classist" accusations around. The only "sort" they want is intelligent and enthusiastic, wherever from and whatever colour. Ask yourself if you did enough wider reading, spoke well enough, answered admissions test questions well enough and got high enough ums scores that you can accuse with any justification and surety, given the competition, some of the top logical minds of the country of rejecting you due to the level of melanin in your skin or due to which part of which city from whence you came.

It may be true that the well read, intelligent "sort" comes more from the private sector than from the state (thanks to admissions tests in the private sector, this is necessarily true to some degree at least). That doesn't mean OP has little chance. Statistically she may have a very small chance of being accepted, but there is no direct (socio-economic background affects learning) causal link between colour or class and admissions success, so you can't say that she has any less chance than any other applicant just on those bases.

Baseless accusations make you look stupid.


Original post by ieatcheeseyo

The amount of students that are sons and daughters of Consultants, Professors or people's father's that make "donations"


If you think these academics -- people who've given up the potential to earn tonnes of money, as necessarily they have if they had the qualifications and ability to become Cambridge tutors -- would base admissions decisions on money, you don't know the sort of person of whom you speak.

This is more baseless accusation. Provide some evidence, please.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by TimmonaPortella
The logical fallacy you are committing here is known as cum hoc ergo propter hoc. The literal translation is that you're being a ****.

Stop throwing "racist", "classist" accusations around. The only "sort" they want is intelligent and enthusiastic, wherever from and whatever colour. Ask yourself if you did enough wider reading, spoke well enough, answered admissions test questions well enough and got high enough ums scores that you can accuse with any justification and surety, given the competition, some of the top logical minds of the country of rejecting you due to the level of melanin on your skin or due to which part of which city from whence you came.

It may be true that the well read, intelligent "sort" comes more from the private sector than from the state (thanks to admissions tests in the private sector, this is necessarily true to some degree at least). That doesn't mean OP has little chance. Statistically she may have a very small chance of being accepted, but there is no direct (socio-economic background affects learning) causal link between colour or class and admissions success, so you can't say that she has any less chance than any other applicant just on those bases.

Baseless accusations make you look stupid.


I clearly stated in my post that I doubt it's for actual racist reasons these days but you cant lie they want a special "sort" of person A way of thinking or carrying yourself or presenting your ideas that can only be gained in private school perhaps? UCL/Imperial/LSE are happy to take on anyone with exceptional grades and enthusiasm for their subject but Oxbridge say they want something else. They also say they aren't looking for geniuses per se so what are they looking for in a candidate exactly? It is fact that nearly half of Oxbridge students come from private school. Even in comps that get high grades not nearly as many of their pupils will get into Oxbridge. It is obviously a coaching thing.

Also OP I forgot to add that I hope I haven't put you off applying. You should as they are both excellent unis and as I said I seriously doubt they actually sit there under a confederate flag outright rejecting black people for being black (wouldn't get away with it + it's of no benefit to the university). So you may aswell try. But being black and from a north London comp means you got a different way of thinking and doing things that they may not be looking for. That is all.
Original post by Computerised
I clearly stated in my post that I doubt it's for actual racist reasons these days but you cant lie they want a special "sort" of person A way of thinking or carrying yourself or presenting your ideas that can only be gained in private school perhaps? UCL/Imperial/LSE are happy to take on anyone with exceptional grades and enthusiasm for their subject but Oxbridge say they want something else. They also say they aren't looking for geniuses per se so what are they looking for in a candidate exactly? It is fact that nearly half of Oxbridge students come from private school. Even in comps that get high grades not nearly as many of their pupils will get into Oxbridge. It is obviously a coaching thing.


Your post wasn't entirely clear. Anything that gives or seems to give the impression that colour or class will in themselves affect an application has to be shouted down. People may be influenced by such posts, and that is not a good thing to allow people wrongly to believe.

The "way of thinking" they want can't only be gained at public/ private schoolers -- I speak as someone who went to a kinda crappy state sixth form*. They don't want any "way of thinking" in particular, though, except one that includes quick analysis, an ability to draw on extra curricular reading and originality. This tends statistically proportionately more to come from the private sector than the state sector, due, as stated, to admissions tests, due to socio-economic backgrounds correlating with parental teaching and home educational environments, and due, yes, to greater resource availability and greater depth of teaching in the private than in the state sector.

It's entirely possible to gain every quality they want in the state sector as it is in the private. (that the latter is better than the former is also a generalisation, it should be pointed out; there are some excellent state grammar schools that are of a much higher calibre than a lot of lesser private schools. But, to continue with the generalisation). It may take more initiative and drive for many people, yes, and if that's your point it's taken, but it needs to be made clear that no individual is at a disadvantage due to their origin in itself.

*this is probably not entirely fair. The teachers were helpful and everything, and the resources were good, but the teaching was very superficial. I mainly taught myself.

edit: I didn't respond to your question what tutors are looking for. I'm not sure where you've seen that they aren't looking for geniuses, but wherever it was I think it more likely said that genius level intelligence wasn't a necessary condition. Anyway, intelligence means little if you clearly have no interest in your subject.

They're not looking for the highest grades because they recognise that A levels and GCSEs are very superficial. A few ums difference between candidates is usually down to exam technique. Basically, A levels are below the level of everyone they want, so they need a way to choose between all the people who did well in their A levels.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by TimmonaPortella
The logical fallacy you are committing here is known as cum hoc ergo propter hoc. The literal translation is that you're being a ****.

Stop throwing "racist", "classist" accusations around. The only "sort" they want is intelligent and enthusiastic, wherever from and whatever colour. Ask yourself if you did enough wider reading, spoke well enough, answered admissions test questions well enough and got high enough ums scores that you can accuse with any justification and surety, given the competition, some of the top logical minds of the country of rejecting you due to the level of melanin in your skin or due to which part of which city from whence you came.

It may be true that the well read, intelligent "sort" comes more from the private sector than from the state (thanks to admissions tests in the private sector, this is necessarily true to some degree at least). That doesn't mean OP has little chance. Statistically she may have a very small chance of being accepted, but there is no direct (socio-economic background affects learning) causal link between colour or class and admissions success, so you can't say that she has any less chance than any other applicant just on those bases.

Baseless accusations make you look stupid.




If you think these academics -- people who've given up the potential to earn tonnes of money, as necessarily they have if they had the qualifications and ability to become Cambridge tutors -- would base admissions decisions on money, you don't know the sort of person of whom you speak.

This is more baseless accusation. Provide some evidence, please.


Can't really provide evidence on the matter
But even things like the "enough money to join the societies/clubs" apparently exists

Finish post tomorrow :L
Original post by Nia_Beth
Thanks for the responses. Also my school is really pushing for volunteering hours and stuff. Do Cambridge really about that kinda stuff??
Thanks x


Cambridge don't seem to care about anything other than academics. Make these your priority, and show enthusiasm for the subject you want to study.

As for your race, I don't think it should affect your application. It's impossible to know for sure, after all, you are being interviewed by humans, not robots.

Either way, good luck, it would be great to have more black females in engineering and science roles.
Reply 19
Original post by ieatcheeseyo
The Majority will be from Private schools
The amount of students that are sons and daughters of Consultants, Professors or people's father's that make "donations"


Wow, you really don't have a ****ing clue what you're on about.

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