[jordannewyork]

I'm an American undergrad at a good university with pretty impressive grades and a damn good score on LSAT(law school admissions test) and I'm on track to go a top US law school and have a good career. Well this may be fine and well for some folks but since I first went to London when I was younger, I knew I wanted to live in the United Kingdom. I know it's quite stupid to just go to the UK and do an LLB with no set plan, and in that situation I might be in a predicament where I might have to return to America with a UK degree thats pretty much useless stateside. I think what I'm going to is try to secure a training contract based on my current grades, and do the GDL while knowing I'll have a job and the end of that year. Has anyone gotten a training contract with a foreign degree? I'll be applying to the bigger US firms in London(higher salary) I see this as a no lose situation because if I get no offers I can always just go to law school here. Any experience? Do I stand a chance?

[jacketpotato]

Remember that moving to London is a big decision - I think you should be sure its what you want to do before you cross the pond. Working such a long way from family and friends is a big disadvantage. But if it is what you want to do, then go for it.

I think you need to be careful about statements like "I'll be applying to the bigger US firms in London (higher salary)". The number of trainees taken on by US firms is tiny, so competition is intense and can be fairly random. The UK firms have much larger intakes, so even if you have outstanding academics you can't assume that you'll land a position with a US firm, in reality you would make applications to both US firms and UK firms to have the best chance of getting a decent TC. Regarding salary, the US firms with larger established London offices are now paying London salaries across the board. If they still pay higher New York rates, those are only paid to US qualified lawyers. Some US firms with smaller London offices are still paying New York rates to English qualified lawyers, but even these firms pay their trainees like a UK firm.

Remember that the GDL takes one year. You would do the GDL instead of the LLB, not as well of it. LLB can take 2 or 3 years. You need to add another year to do the LPC in each case. In pure salary terms you'd be better off state-side: in the US you'd be starting as a first year associate (circa US$110,000 a year for white-shoe firms in New York) but in the UK you'd be getting paid as a trainee for two years (about £40,000 a year) advancing to about £66,000 on qualification.
Obviously you have to weigh this against the increased study costs you'd face in the US if you are required to pay full fees; and the fact that London firms will pay your GDL and LPC fees and give you an additional grant of £6-8,000 for your GDL and LPC years.

Lots of people get Training Contracts with foreign degrees. I know trainees with degrees from India, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Germany and elsewhere. Historically its been a very easy thing to do, but the government is tightening up the visa requirements and may tighten the rules further over the next few years. This will make it more difficult for firms to hire people with foreign degrees, which will affect US citizens. If you don't have UK citizenship this is an important point for you to research.

[Brevity]

I don't really see why you would do this...

(Original post by jordannewyork)
I'm an American undergrad at a good university with pretty impressive grades and a damn good score on LSAT(law school admissions test) and I'm on track to go a top US law school and have a good career. Well this may be fine and well for some folks but since I first went to London when I was younger, I knew I wanted to live in the United Kingdom. I know it's quite stupid to just go to the UK and do an LLB with no set plan, and in that situation I might be in a predicament where I might have to return to America with a UK degree thats pretty much useless stateside. I think what I'm going to is try to secure a training contract based on my current grades, and do the GDL while knowing I'll have a job and the end of that year. Has anyone gotten a training contract with a foreign degree? I'll be applying to the bigger US firms in London(higher salary) I see this as a no lose situation because if I get no offers I can always just go to law school here. Any experience? Do I stand a chance?

Now, economically, if you got a job at one of the firms that pay US rates in London, it might work out better since they pay almost as much as the going rate in New York ($160,000, so about £100,000) and you wouldn't be burdened with $150,000 in law school debt but...

Your chances of being able to do that are pretty minimal. There're about 6 firms that pay above £90,000 on qualification in London, so about 25 places in total. Unless you're undergrad was Ivy League standard, I'd be surprised if you got an interview (after that the defining characteristic isn't so much quality, as luck). In contrast, if you're LSAT and undergrad are good enough to get you to a T14 law school, it'd be pretty easy to find a job at a New York firm, I'd imagine. Plus, there're firms that you can work at in NY that you can't here (Wachtell, Cravath, Davis Polk, &c.).

Do you love London so much that you'd cut your chances of being a lawyer in half?

Then again, as you say, where's the harm in trying?

[tehFrance]

(Original post by jordannewyork)
I'm an American undergrad....

So you intend to do another undergraduate degree? the LLB is an undergraduate degree in the UK, whereas the Juris Doctor is postgraduate.

As for getting in with a US law firm, good luck with that... they don't hire as many people as the UK firms do. In my opinion you should stay in the US and do a J.D. Degree instead, sure it will cost more but worth it

[pleb1]

(Original post by jordannewyork)
I'm an American undergrad at a good university with pretty impressive grades and a damn good score on LSAT(law school admissions test) and I'm on track to go a top US law school and have a good career. Well this may be fine and well for some folks but since I first went to London when I was younger, I knew I wanted to live in the United Kingdom. I know it's quite stupid to just go to the UK and do an LLB with no set plan, and in that situation I might be in a predicament where I might have to return to America with a UK degree thats pretty much useless stateside. I think what I'm going to is try to secure a training contract based on my current grades, and do the GDL while knowing I'll have a job and the end of that year. Has anyone gotten a training contract with a foreign degree? I'll be applying to the bigger US firms in London(higher salary) I see this as a no lose situation because if I get no offers I can always just go to law school here. Any experience? Do I stand a chance?

If your grades are good and you interview good, there should be no problem. Remember, all you need to do the GDL is an undergrad degree and this does not have to be from a UK institution. The fact you have strong prior experience in US law would be a positive if anything in my opinion. I don't quite see the issue. If you are a good American candidate you will be at no disadvantage in terms of getting a training contract at top UK or US (go for NY if you want $) firm in London. I'm at a US and there are plenty of US qualified lawyers there as well as Americans who have never sat a US law exam im their life.

Summary: I have no experience myself but you certainly have a chance as good as any strong candidate from the UK (perhaps a better one in fact based on what you say...)

Also, while there are only a few places at US firms in London as pointed out by other posters, someone has to get the places. If you back yourself then you back yourself, right?

[nulli tertius]

(Original post by pleb1)
If your grades are good and you interview good, there should be no problem. Remember, all you need to do the GDL is an undergrad degree and this does not have to be from a UK institution.

If it is not from a UK or Irish university the OP will need a certificate of academic standing from the SRA.

The fact you have strong prior experience in US law would be a positive if anything in my opinion.

He won't have any experience of US law. He will have a US liberal arts degree.

I don't quite see the issue. If you are a good American candidate you will be at no disadvantage in terms of getting a training contract at top UK or US (go for NY if you want $) firm in London. I'm at a US and there are plenty of US qualified lawyers there as well as Americans who have never sat a US law exam im their life.

And what is their immigration status? Are they posted workers, are they dual nationals, spouses of EU citizens or, are they people for whom your employer has sponsored a visa.

The latter is what the OP will need and that is why he would be at a disadvantage.

Summary: I have no experience myself but you certainly have a chance as good as any strong candidate from the UK (perhaps a better one in fact based on what you say...)

Also, while there are only a few places at US firms in London as pointed out by other posters, someone has to get the places. If you back yourself then you back yourself, right?

And if it all goes wrong, what is the OP left with?

[Kessler`]

nulli_tertius, as ever, bringing some reality to the thread.

I hope you stick around here, it's nice to have some balance to the unrealistic optimism spurged all over these boards.

[pleb1]

(Original post by nulli tertius)
If it is not from a UK or Irish university the OP will need a certificate of academic standing from the SRA.



He won't have any experience of US law. He will have a US liberal arts degree.




And what is their immigration status? Are they posted workers, are they dual nationals, spouses of EU citizens or, are they people for whom your employer has sponsored a visa.

The latter is what the OP will need and that is why he would be at a disadvantage.



And if it all goes wrong, what is the OP left with?

Although there are workarounds for most of these issues, they are definitely fair comments which temper my original post rather well.

[nulli tertius]

(Original post by Kessler`)
nulli_tertius, as ever, bringing some reality to the thread.

I hope you stick around here, it's nice to have some balance to the unrealistic optimism spurged all over these boards.

Having finished my part-time degree I am here a little bit under false pretences. I have to decide whether to do a PhD in law, something in architectural history, or get a life!

[Kessler`]

(Original post by nulli tertius)
Having finished my part-time degree I am here a little bit under false pretences. I have to decide whether to do a PhD in law, something in architectural history, or get a life!

I thought you were practising? Unless you are running a practice alongside part-time higher education, in which case...phew!

What about a language? Useful and stimulating. I'm teaching myself German before I start pupillage - passes the time outside of work!

[nulli tertius]

(Original post by Kessler`)
I thought you were practising? Unless you are running a practice alongside part-time higher education, in which case...phew!

I am in practice but it is an exaggeration to say I am running it. Two of my partners do that.

What about a language? Useful and stimulating. I'm teaching myself German before I start pupillage - passes the time outside of work!

Not a chance! O level French was my limit.