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Patriotism is wrong, so why do you pull for your nation's athletes in the olympics?

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    It is safe to say a fair amount of people on TSR regard patriotism as a negative sentiment. Their Arguments for this opinion are.....

    1. Patriotism is irrational.
    2. It is ignorant to be proud of where you were born.
    3. Patriotism is synonymous with racism.
    4. Why should you be proud of arbitrary geographical borders?
    5. Patriotism is a mechanism for close-minded people who only want to affiliate themselves with those most like them.


    So what do many of these rational, wise, non-racists, worldly, and open-minded people do when the olympics come? They feel excitement at seeing their nations best athletes prepare to represent that nation. The get inspired as they see those athletes struggle in competition. Perhaps some of that excitement and inspiration comes from the fact that they feel at least in some small way affiliated with this athlete who was born within the same arbitrary borders as them. Some of them may become the tiniest bit moved as they see a tear in the eyes of that athlete, as his national anthem is played while he stands upon the podium. A few may even feel inclined to cheer at a television which can't hear them, and high five their mate at the pub. They will say, "that bugger is ours."

    For one short moment many will feel better about themselves and their nation because of the tribulations of one. That feeling may be irrational and arbitrary, but it will not be ignorant, racist, or close-minded. Some of the more foolish would even describe such sentiment as a good thing.

    Edit: I guess that makes me a fool, because I tend to agree.
    Edit2: Apparently I was not a clear as intended. The part in bold is an example of anti-patriotic rhetoric I have received in response to my pro-patriotic threads on TSR like this one...http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...a+is+great+IMO

    So I would like to know from those same anti-patriotic people if and why they pull for their nation in the olympics.
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    Can't disagree more with any of those points. Patriotism is about culture, not arbitrary land borders. Celebrating and belonging to a culture is what makes us humans.

    The conflation with patriotism, nationalism and racism is nothing short of ridiculous.

    edit: I mean the five points you posted. Wasn't an attack on the OP.
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    I'm not Jamaican but i'm rooting for Bolt to run the 100 in 9.2 seconds
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    (Original post by MickyFlanagan)
    I'm not Jamaican but i'm rooting for Bolt to run the 100 in 9.2 seconds
    exactly. i support british athletes first and foremost but i cant help but support bolt in breaking the world record again
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    (Original post by screenager2004)
    Can't disagree more with any of those points. Patriotism is about culture, not arbitrary land borders. Celebrating and belonging to a culture is what makes us humans.

    Your conflation with patriotism, nationalism and racism is nothing short of ridiculous.
    You should read the op again. I think you missed the point completely.
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    (Original post by ckingalt)
    .
    i wish i was able to neg you. youre a knob
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    (Original post by screenager2004)
    Can't disagree more with any of those points. Patriotism is about culture, not arbitrary land borders. Celebrating and belonging to a culture is what makes us humans.
    I reckon there's a 'patriotism spectrum', and your definition fits somewhere closer to the bottom (total apathy) than the top (Nazi-esque nationalism).

    To many patriotism means believing that your culture, your country, is superior - and that's where I think it takes a wrong turning.
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    I'm sorry but I have to admit to struggling to work out whether you're saying that some people think patriotism is a good thing and whether you agree with them.

    And also whether you think that they think it is the same as racism and whether you agree with them

    :confused:


    FWIW, I think racism is wrong, patriotism is not, and they are absolutely definitely 100% not the same thing.
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    (Original post by BaconFTW)
    I reckon there's a 'patriotism spectrum', and your definition fits somewhere closer to the bottom (total apathy) than the top (Nazi-esque nationalism)

    To many patriotism means believing that your culture, your country, is superior - and that's where I think it takes a wrong turning.
    No youre confusing the two - they're completely different things - there is no 'spectrum' where one inevitably blurs into the other.
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    (Original post by screenager2004)
    Can't disagree more with any of those points. Patriotism is about culture, not arbitrary land borders. Celebrating and belonging to a culture is what makes us humans.

    The conflation with patriotism, nationalism and racism is nothing short of ridiculous.

    edit: I mean the five points you posted. Wasn't an attack on the OP.

    (Original post by adobe)
    i wish i was able to neg you. youre a knob

    (Original post by viffer)
    I'm sorry but I have to admit to struggling to work out whether you're saying that some people think patriotism is a good thing and whether you agree with them.

    And also whether you think that they think it is the same as racism and whether you agree with them

    :confused:


    FWIW, I think racism is wrong, patriotism is not, and they are absolutely definitely 100% not the same thing.
    I just attempted to clarify the OP. Sorry for the confusion. I hate when I think I'm being clever and am actually only being incoherent.
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    (Original post by screenager2004)
    No youre confusing the two - they're completely different things - there is no 'spectrum' where one inevitably blurs into the other.
    Wikipedia defines patriotism as 'devotion to your country', and like it or not, that trumps your definition in authority. Even though you're a moderator. :P

    I just propose that people hold differing levels of devotion, and in turn differing levels of patriotism.

    It can be fine and purely positive in its lesser forms, but it can also be ugly and hateful.
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    (Original post by BaconFTW)
    Wikipedia defines patriotism as 'devotion to your country', and like it or not, that trumps your definition in authority. Even though you're a moderator. :P

    I just propose that people hold differing levels of devotion, and in turn differing levels of patriotism.

    It can be fine and purely positive in its lesser forms, but it can also be ugly and hateful.
    The extent to which someone is devoted towards their country has no bearing on whether they subscribe to nationalism or not. Nationalism and patriotism are two different things. One can be incredibly devoted to their country without being a nationalist.
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    it's just a bit of fun. if you don't get behind someone to support it'd be boring.
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    (Original post by screenager2004)
    The extent to which someone is devoted towards their country has no bearing on whether they subscribe to nationalism or not. Nationalism and patriotism are two different things. One can be incredibly devoted to their country without being a nationalist.
    Indeed they can. I'm very proud of being a Scot, am not a rampant Nationalist champing at the bit for a break up of the UK, and am definitely NOT a racist. A simple search through my posts will show that I'm embarrassed at what some of the UK's indigenous IC1 population get up to and many immigrants (whether 1st, 2nd or 3rd generation) put them to shame with what they contribute to our society.
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    Even if you do believe that patriotism is wrong and is synonymous with racism, which is a point I have a couple of issues with anyway, there are differences when it comes to the olympics.

    Mainly I think it's just that it's much more light-hearted. You're celebrating competition and various countries coming together, you're allowed to cheer for your country a bit.

    You're basically taking the anti-patriotism thing to another level and saying that basically no-one can support anything to do with their own country which is ridiculous
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    we dont make the rules, the super rich determine the game we merely play. If they want to make borders wide open to maximise low labour costs they can.
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    (Original post by BaconFTW)
    Wikipedia defines patriotism as 'devotion to your country', and like it or not, that trumps your definition in authority. Even though you're a moderator. :P

    I just propose that people hold differing levels of devotion, and in turn differing levels of patriotism.

    It can be fine and purely positive in its lesser forms, but it can also be ugly and hateful.
    You are committing the slippery slope fallacy.

    Try again.
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    (Original post by screenager2004)
    The extent to which someone is devoted towards their country has no bearing on whether they subscribe to nationalism or not. Nationalism and patriotism are two different things. One can be incredibly devoted to their country without being a nationalist.
    The problem is that you're still ignoring all the people around the world who have their own version of 'patriotism', and there's little reason that yours should be considered definitive.

    Why are you so determined to ignore the uglier forms of patriotism out there?
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    (Original post by Ocassus)
    You are committing the slippery slope fallacy.

    Try again.
    Please can you be more specific, where did I go wrong?
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