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Stephen Lawrence murder: Dobson and Norris found guilty

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Reply 60
Original post by viffer
He should of course speak for himself since you posed the question to him.

However, my £0.02 is that in all of the 18 years since Stephen was murdered NO ONE to my knowledge has ever claimed that he was involved in any anti-social or criminal behaviour until I read it that earlier post. On balance, I think the claims are probably a lot of excrement too.


I believe its some stuff the BNP put about a while ago about him.
Reply 61
Original post by moonkatt
I believe its some stuff the BNP put about a while ago about him.


I'm not a student of BNP literature and would take what they said with a bucket of sodium chloride anyway :smile:
Reply 62
Justice. The case has brought many things to light but its sad that Stephen had to die for things to change. Hope that his parents may have some peace after this struggle.

Noreen Lawrence "These are not reasons to celebrate.
Racist attacks are still happening. My son lies buried. I cannot see
him or speak to him. When I cannot see him or speak to him. When will
I see him grow up and go to university or get married or have
children? These verdicts will not bring my son back."
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 63
Original post by viffer
I'm not a student of BNP literature and would take what they said with a bucket of sodium chloride anyway :smile:


Oh indeed it's not something I go out of my way to read, I've much better things to do with my time. I've just seen people comment on some facebook groups when people have made this comment. It has something to do with Nick Griffin saying stuff to undercover reporters for a documentary a while ago, I think it all ended up in court but I'm unsure as to what came of it.
I noticed the British Bias corporation cut off the picture of Lawrence doing a black power fist pump.

Here it is in the daily mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079782/Stephen-Lawrence-trial-Gary-Dobson-David-Norris-guilty-murder.html

I have a question, how can individuals labeled as disgusting murdering racists over the years, had viewing material released of them threatening to kill blacks,brandishing weapons and hurling racist remarks, there been prior knowledge of one of them in a racial altercation with a black police officer which he was sent to prison for be given any kind of fair trial in a British court? Indeed the so called right wing Daily Mail,which all the lefties here rant on about, tried and convicted them before hand in the famous front page 'prove us wrong and sue us' challenge,back in 1997 I think it was.

Now Iam not suggesting, that this bunch are innocent or model citizens.Lawrence was murdered,I do not want anyone walking the streets capable of it and whoever did should have been locked away, but I do think questions should be able to be asked about this verdict.Indeed rod liddle has also asked the same question. Maybe, someone has to pay for the 24.7 cctv monitoring of the stephen lawrence memorial, and all the money spent around this case,plus the route and branch reform of the met.
Original post by fudgesundae
It is a racist killing because the motives were adjudged to have been racial. If a black person kills a white person and their motives are racial then yes it is a racist killing. Similarly if a white person kills a black person and there is no racist motive then it is not a racist killing.


Ok. Your quote proves they were nasty bigots. But don't you find it strange that in this CCTV footage not once did they mention the killing. Don't you think that is strange? Surely they would mention it at least once? They were nasty people, had racist views and were criminal thugs by the sound of things but that doesn't prove they killed him. This has been a witchhunt, the forensic evidence sounds very dubious to me, they had an official admitting that it was very likely that the evidence could have been contaminated. Plus they stored the clothes in the same locker or something like that.

There is no doubt that it was a tragedy but it was 18 years ago, look at all the white lads who have been killed by blacks such as Ben Kinsella and the white 14 year old from Islington who got killed for looking at a black person the wrong way. The police say it's not racially motivated but we know full well about the politically correct view that has slowly permeated through society that holds that only white people can be racist. Ho many white youths have we heard of murdering blacks since Stephen Lawrence? There was no way that they would have had a fair trial anyway with the media telling us for the last 18 years that they did it.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 66
Original post by crocker710
A well written response. However; I'm not quite sure if you're trying to defend the Met here? I may have been factually incorrect; but two police officers going to the pub within an hour of a stabbing because 'they're not needed' isn't acceptable; the question being raised by all of this is; if the person on the floor had been white would all of the polices efforts been put into finding the people who had committed this horrendous crime? The Macpherson enquiry found the Met police to be systematically and institutionally racist.

This is quoted from a programme on ITV right now
'after seeing the colour of his skin the police officers were more concerned with his intentions in the area rather than the attackers fleeing'
'There wasn't any first aid given; they wanted to ask me questions why my friend on the floor was dying'
'After nine minutes from the 999 call the paramedics arrived; these were the first to administer first aid. He effectively died at the side of the road'

The fact that the five men were only arrested on suspicion of murder, two weeks after the stabbing when no new evidence came to light, when Nelson Mandela made an appeal with Stephen's parents, makes you ask what they were waiting for?


I was not defending the met - I probably should have made that clearer.

It is true that the actions of the two officers who walked of was unacceptable. The report concluded on this point: "We are forced to the conclusion that his [Inspector Goves] attitude and his dismissive conduct were contributed to, if not wholly caused, by unwitting but clear racism."

However it is wrong to say that no attempt by members of the met to assist Mr Lawrence. The trouble was that they were poorly trained and had failed to put into practice the little training they had. The report said: "This evidence reinforced the Inquiry's views as to the lack of satisfactory and proper training in First Aid for officers of all ranks. Not only should officers be properly trained and be given proper refresher training at regular intervals, but it must be made plain that more senior officers need instruction just as much as junior officers."

There was no evidence that officers other than the two who left the scene failed to provide proper care due to racism: "As to the others involved directly in the allegations as to First Aid we do not infer that their inaction was initiated or caused by overt or unwitting racism."

I agree with the reports findings that overall, the Metropolitan Police Service was rotten with racism. I accept that this caused the murder investigation to be handled poorly. I was merely correcting your point which seemed to infer that no first aid was given and that this was due to racism.
Original post by Blahblah2654
Ok. Your quote proves they were nasty bigots. But don't you find it strange that in this CCTV footage not once did they mention the killing. Don't you think that is strange? Surely they would mention it at least once? They were nasty people, had racist views and were criminal thugs by the sound of things but that doesn't prove they killed him. This has been a witchhunt, the forensic evidence sounds very dubious to me, they had an official admitting that it was very likely that the evidence could have been contaminated. Plus they stored the clothes in the same locker or something like that.

There is no doubt that it was a tragedy but it was 18 years ago, look at all the white lads who have been killed by blacks such as Ben Kinsella and the white 14 year old from Islington who got killed for looking at a black person the wrong way. The police say it's not racially motivated but we know full well about the politically correct view that has slowly permeated through society that holds that only white people can be racist. Ho many white youths have we heard of murdering blacks since Stephen Lawrence? There was no way that they would have had a fair trial anyway with the media telling us for the last 18 years that they did it.


Detectives spent months establishing the movements and handling of the exhibits (evidence) since 1993 - and the jury were told that contamination was implausible.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16257377

A summary of the evidence they had.

We have discussed the Kinsella murder already. It may have been adjudged to be racially motivated but there is no proof or even an indication. With this case there was overwhelming evidence that the attack was racially motivated.

Your comment on them not having a fair trial is ridiculous. The first time they were arrested there was not a fair prosecution and Met were accused of institutional racism (a claim which had some weight behind it). However with advances in DNA analysis techniques (there was only a very small amount of DNA, but new advances allow this to be amplified) it was now possible to try them fairly with all the evidence. And with all the evidence etc. having been considered, they have been adjudged to be guilty of this heinous crime.
And I hope that the sentences tomorrow will be harsh.
Original post by Ministerdonut
I noticed the British Bias corporation cut off the picture of Lawrence doing a black power fist pump.

Here it is in the daily mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079782/Stephen-Lawrence-trial-Gary-Dobson-David-Norris-guilty-murder.html

I have a question, how can individuals labeled as disgusting murdering racists over the years, had viewing material released of them threatening to kill blacks,brandishing weapons and hurling racist remarks, there been prior knowledge of one of them in a racial altercation with a black police officer which he was sent to prison for be given any kind of fair trial in a British court? Indeed the so called right wing Daily Mail,which all the lefties here rant on about, tried and convicted them before hand in the famous front page 'prove us wrong and sue us' challenge,back in 1997 I think it was.

Now Iam not suggesting, that this bunch are innocent or model citizens.Lawrence was murdered,I do not want anyone walking the streets capable of it and whoever did should have been locked away, but I do think questions should be able to be asked about this verdict.Indeed rod liddle has also asked the same question. Maybe, someone has to pay for the 24.7 cctv monitoring of the stephen lawrence memorial, and all the money spent around this case,plus the route and branch reform of the met.


Are you implying that they are not in fact guilty of the crime? That is all I can infer from you wanting to question the verdict.

If so, read my above post which has a link to evidence etc.
Original post by fudgesundae
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16257377

A summary of the evidence they had.

We have discussed the Kinsella murder already. It may have been adjudged to be racially motivated but there is no proof or even an indication. With this case there was overwhelming evidence that the attack was racially motivated.


You're honestly that anti white that you will say there is no proof or even an indication that they were racist!!!??! They have admitted to ''going out looking for a white lad'' and one of the killers has been quoted in prison as saying ''I wish I had killed more white f***ers''

Your comment on them not having a fair trial is ridiculous.


Because for the last 18 years the media hasn't been calling those guys the killers?

The first time they were arrested there was not a fair prosecution and Met were accused of institutional racism (a claim which had some weight behind it). However with advances in DNA analysis techniques (there was only a very small amount of DNA, but new advances allow this to be amplified) it was now possible to try them fairly with all the evidence. And with all the evidence etc. having been considered, they have been adjudged to be guilty of this heinous crime.
And I hope that the sentences tomorrow will be harsh.


The evidence found is tiny and I wouldn't be suprised if it was contaminated which is a real possibility.
Original post by Blahblah2654
You're honestly that anti white that you will say there is no proof or even an indication that they were racist!!!??! They have admitted to ''going out looking for a white lad'' and one of the killers has been quoted in prison as saying ''I wish I had killed more white f***ers''


I am not anti-white. And source? I have never seen that before.

Because for the last 18 years the media hasn't been calling those guys the killers?


Yes they have and if there was no evidence then I would agree with you, but the evidence seems to be pretty damning.

The evidence found is tiny and I wouldn't be suprised if it was contaminated which is a real possibility.


a lot of effort was put in by independent researchers to track the movements of all the evidence since 1993. They concluded that the chance of contamination was extremely minimal. So this was taken into account.

The volume of evidence is irrelevant. There is enough to link both these men to the crime.

I suggest you read up on DNA profiling, the actual amount of DNA evidence is irrelevant as it can be amplified.
Original post by InnerTemple
Not quite true. Two members of the public found Mr Lawrence however they were unsure what to do and merely tried to comfort him. Mr Lawrence's friend, Mr Brook, was attempting to summon the emergency services while this was happening. He was in a distressed state and was seen wondering around the phone box.

An off duty police officer, PC Geddis, was driving home from church and saw a body on the pavement. He also saw Mr Brooks running around waving his arms. Upon seeing this, PC Geddis stopped. He asked Mr Brooks what had happened and was told that Lawrence had been hit with an iron bar. PC Geddis formed the opinion that Lawrence was being attended to and it was better that he make sure the emergency services arrive.

The first police unit turned up at some point after this. One officer from this unit attended to Mr Lawrence while the other went to try and find out where the ambulance was. They had arrived with the view that Mr Lawrence had a head injury. Evidence was given by all who attended that the blood loss which Mr Lawrence suffered was not obvious until his body was lifted up by the ambulance crew. Nor were any stab wounds since Mr Lawrence was wearing 5 layers of clothing.

A short while later, some police carriers arrived. It was two officers from these carriers who decided that they were of no use at the scene and went to a Welcome Inn.

The inquiry found that racism did not play a role in the poor first aid given by the police officers. It was instead found that poor training and confusion about the injuries were to blame.

However two witnesses at the scene said this of the officers and ambulance staff: "looking back on the incident I feel that neither the police nor ambulance staff can be criticised for their actions at the scene"
What?

Original post by crocker710
A well written response. However; I'm not quite sure if you're trying to defend the Met here? I may have been factually incorrect; but two police officers going to the pub within an hour of a stabbing because 'they're not needed' isn't acceptable; the question being raised by all of this is; if the person on the floor had been white would all of the polices efforts been put into finding the people who had committed this horrendous crime? The Macpherson enquiry found the Met police to be systematically and institutionally racist.

This is quoted from a programme on ITV right now
'after seeing the colour of his skin the police officers were more concerned with his intentions in the area rather than the attackers fleeing'
'There wasn't any first aid given; they wanted to ask me questions why my friend on the floor was dying'
'After nine minutes from the 999 call the paramedics arrived; these were the first to administer first aid. He effectively died at the side of the road'

The fact that the five men were only arrested on suspicion of murder, two weeks after the stabbing when no new evidence came to light, when Nelson Mandela made an appeal with Stephen's parents, makes you ask what they were waiting for?
Thank you!
Reply 72
Original post by Reformed2010
What?


What?
Original post by Blahblah2654
But don't you find it strange that in this CCTV footage not once did they mention the killing.
They were aware they were being filmed.
Original post by whyumadtho
They were aware they were being filmed.


They were aware they were being filmed yet they spewed all that racist stuff and spoke about stabbing people? Bull****.
Original post by Blahblah2654
They were aware they were being filmed yet they spewed all that racist stuff and spoke about stabbing people? Bull****.
I can't find the video online, but I was watching Sky News earlier and they showed part of the surveillance where they referred to the police as 'nosy ****ers', or something similar, along with other things that indicated their awareness.
Reply 76
Original post by Reformed2010
Huge relief. I was just one years old when this happened. However it was that big of a case, especially within the black community, that I learned the significance of the case as I grew up from friends and family. Proud a bit of justice has been delivered, all praises to the British judicial system and unyielding fighting spirit of Lawrence's family.

Some good news for 2012!

edit: whoever neg this post, I wish I believed in a hell as I'd sit more comfortable knowing you would burn in it. Pathetic.
Well said. How can anyone neg this?! they clearly have no heart or mind. :frown:

+1

RIP Stephen.
Original post by aja89
Respect to the forensics team who managed to put together sufficient evidence from the absolute mess that was created first time round. This case has seen the best and worst of police work.

On a less PC note, I hope Dobson and Norris encounter some interesting cell mates in prison.


Lets hope they're black..
Original post by Matthew12
I might be a bit stupid saying this but does anyone think they might be innocent and may also be wrongly convicted.


I think the fact that the Daily Mail out of all newspapers set off the campaign to bring them to justice speaks volumes.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Blahblah2654
Ok. Your quote proves they were nasty bigots. But don't you find it strange that in this CCTV footage not once did they mention the killing. Don't you think that is strange? Surely they would mention it at least once? .


You didn't pay attention to the trial did you? They knew they were being bugged - they even talked directly to the cops ("Nosy ***** wasting tax payers money" etc).

Clifford Norris tipped them off.

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