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Is a 2:1, 2:2 and even 3rd class oxbridge degree looked favorably upon then a 1st

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    (Original post by ClickItBack)
    Weirdly though, foreign students who come for 4th years in Cambridge seem to do just as well as the home-grown lot, even if they're not from the most well-known institutions in their country (e.g. non-Ivy League Americans). I don't know why that seems to be the case for other countries but not the UK.
    I get the feeling that there is more opportunity to do work on a consistent basis at American unis, as they continuous test you, so if you are the kind inclined to go on to a postgrad it is easy for you to study all the time. Whereas in the UK we don't tend to have so much assessment and pressure to study except for occasional courseworks and end of year exams.
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    but they can choose what to teach up to an extent, what contents a subject should include and dont have to follow the NC rigorously like comprehensives do. Otherwise they wouldn't have iGCSE's.
    I did IGCSEs too. You don't get any extra credit for them when you apply to university, they are counted as GCSEs. They are harder and prepare you better for A-levels though, shame I only carried on with Maths from the IGCSEs that I did.
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    (Original post by Bubblyjubbly)
    You're all missing the mark, I'm afraid.

    Any Oxbridge 2.1 would have achieved a 1st anywhere else (including Imperial/LSE), that's why they are chosen; a 2.2 might have done which is why an Oxbridge 2.2, with the exception of Law, gives you a decent chance in most graduate schemes - I could give you lists of Oxbridge 2.2s who have, in recent years, secured top graduate jobs in banks and other leading financial services firms. The truth of the matter is that we have seen a number of people leave Oxbridge after or during the first year, not being able to take it, and ending up with firsts at places like Imperial. The joker who thinks that a first from LSE is comparable needs to stop dreaming - it's nowhere near. The Cambridge Economics Faculty has found that those with 2.1s from Oxbridge are outscoring firsts from the next best universities in their MPhil courses - Oxbridge and Imperial/LSE aren't remotely similar, sorry.

    Have 2 friends at oxford doing sciences. I have higher A levels than both of them (just lower GCSE so i never applied) I'm currently scoring 2.1/some firsts non-oxford and so are they... what might be even more surprising for you is that we have been learning the same stuff.

    To pass onto the 4th year of materials science/physics Msci courses (MASt) cambridge students need a 2.i. Students from outside i.e other good British universities need :O :O :O :O ... horror.... A 2.i Bsc

    So cambridge clearly doesn't think the courses are in a different league...
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    (Original post by Deep456)
    I did IGCSEs too. You don't get any extra credit for them when you apply to university, they are counted as GCSEs. They are harder and prepare you better for A-levels though, shame I only carried on with Maths from the IGCSEs that I did.
    If they're more difficult then surely they've got more value, otherwise what's the point? I just cant believe that a bogstandard comprehensive is at the same level as Eton by any means.

    anyway this is off topic.
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    If they're more difficult then surely they've got more value, otherwise what's the point? I just cant believe that a bogstandard comprehensive is at the same level as Eton by any means.

    anyway this is off topic.
    They should be, yes, but not many know much about them. So, they are counted the same pretty much everywhere.

    Well, clearly, Eton is more prestigious. However, for the purposes of sitting the exams, everyone does the same ones and so the qualifications themselves are the same. Getting an A in A-level History at your local comprehensive or at Eton are equally credible. It's like a car. If you want to go from A>>B, a Nissan Micra is as good as a Ferrari. However, a Ferrari is clearly more flashy and may help you pick up that relatively fit gold-digger down the road.
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    (Original post by a.partridge)
    To pass onto the 4th year of materials science/physics Msci courses (MASt) cambridge students need a 2.i. Students from outside i.e other good British universities need :O :O :O :O ... horror.... A 2.i Bsc

    So cambridge clearly doesn't think the courses are in a different league...
    Ironically, you'd still have an undergraduate degree just like anyone else. If you consider a 4th year MSci a PG, you're stoned really...
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    (Original post by a.partridge)
    Have 2 friends at oxford doing sciences. I have higher A levels than both of them (just lower GCSE so i never applied) I'm currently scoring 2.1/some firsts non-oxford and so are they... what might be even more surprising for you is that we have been learning the same stuff.

    To pass onto the 4th year of materials science/physics Msci courses (MASt) cambridge students need a 2.i. Students from outside i.e other good British universities need :O :O :O :O ... horror.... A 2.i Bsc

    So cambridge clearly doesn't think the courses are in a different league...
    My dad always told me never to try and educate morons, you should ignore that one.
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    My sister went to Cambridge and she got a masters as well as her degree for NatSci. Is this the case for all courses? They said they automatically awarded a masters to recognise the extra work that the students had to do during an undergrad degree compared to other unis. I might have got the wrong end of the stick though...
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    It's not a master's. You get the letters MA. I think it's to signify you being able to vote in university elections, or something. Or to give you an excuse to write (Cantab.) in front of your degree (because it has to be distinguished from legit master's courses).
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    (Original post by Bubblyjubbly)
    You're all missing the mark, I'm afraid.

    Any Oxbridge 2.1 would have achieved a 1st anywhere else (including Imperial/LSE), that's why they are chosen; a 2.2 might have done which is why an Oxbridge 2.2, with the exception of Law, gives you a decent chance in most graduate schemes - I could give you lists of Oxbridge 2.2s who have, in recent years, secured top graduate jobs in banks and other leading financial services firms. The truth of the matter is that we have seen a number of people leave Oxbridge after or during the first year, not being able to take it, and ending up with firsts at places like Imperial. The joker who thinks that a first from LSE is comparable needs to stop dreaming - it's nowhere near. The Cambridge Economics Faculty has found that those with 2.1s from Oxbridge are outscoring firsts from the next best universities in their MPhil courses - Oxbridge and Imperial/LSE aren't remotely similar, sorry.
    da*** did I just read
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    Don't know about Britain, but I can guarantee you that any overseas employer will look at an Oxbridge degree and give it much more weighting than any of the other British universities. In Britain itself it might make such a big difference, but Oxbridge has a huge international reputation.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    Cambridge 2:2 = Oxford 2:1 = London 1st = Manchester MA = Oxford Brookes PhD

    Hope that helps

    :borat:
    I think this is one of my favourite ever posts.
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    I would rather have a 2.2 from Oxford than a 1st from Wolverhampton...
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    (Original post by kka25)
    Ironically, you'd still have an undergraduate degree just like anyone else. If you consider a 4th year MSci a PG, you're stoned really...
    well it's a 9 month course completely made of masters level modules + a project

    I think you will find many other MSc qualifications that are the same.

    Also to apply for the PhD there it wants and Msci, Bsc + Msc or Bsc + MAst

    from that we conclude (although it's already obvious from the name and nature of the course)

    MAst = Msc = (MSci - Bsc )


    MSci is combined with the undergrad degree to save money, not because you wouldn't be at a masters level.
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    (Original post by a.partridge)
    well it's a 9 month course completely made of masters level modules + a project

    I think you will find many other MSc qualifications that are the same.
    Says who? Uni of a.partridge?

    Also to apply for the PhD there it wants and Msci, Bsc + Msc or Bsc + MAst
    Some uni won't accept MSci. Look it up.

    from that we conclude (although it's already obvious from the name and nature of the course)

    MAst = Msc = (MSci - Bsc )
    And how do you form this conclusion? Based on what hypothesis and evidence since the above is basically fallacious?

    MSci is combined with the undergrad degree to save money, not because you wouldn't be at a masters level.
    It can function as an MSci in the UK but it won't fool countries like the US and other parts of the world that have a 4 year BSc and a full PG MSc that is made for MSc students that actually have a UG degree, NOT a Masters that is a part of a UG degree and is made for UG students that don't even have a degree yet; big difference.
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    (Original post by kka25)
    Says who? Uni of a.partridge?



    Some uni won't accept MSci. Look it up.



    And how do you form this conclusion? Based on what hypothesis and evidence since the above is basically fallacious?



    It can function as an MSci in the UK but it won't fool countries like the US and other parts of the world that have a 4 year BSc and a full PG MSc that is made for MSc students that actually have a UG degree, NOT a Masters that is a part of a UG degree and is made for UG students that don't even have a degree yet; big difference.

    1) well at my uni (Bristol) all 4th year modules are officially masters level.

    2) Can't find a uni that doesn't accept the Msci as prep for PhD

    oxford and cambridge and imperial and others all state it as the usual entrance qualification

    US universities recognise UK 3year Bsc = US 4 year, since it is more focused (Or all the ones i've looked at i.e MIT Caltech Harvard...) - look on the websites if you don't believe me...


    Basically you're talking complete **** so i'm going to ask you do you actually know what an Msci is?

    It's not 'for people that don't HAVE a degree since you have to do the first 3 years (I.e Bsc) to be on it - you simply have not been awarded it until the end.

    Just because you don't have a piece of paper saying 1st class Bsc doesn't mean that you didn't just do 3 years of first class work at bachelors level equivalent to the award of Bsc .... and are therefore prepared to take a year of purely masters level units

    If I did the third year of my Msci, then dropped out, I would gain a Bsc... It's not diluted.
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    (Original post by a.partridge)
    So cambridge clearly doesn't think the courses are in a different league...
    It's a fairly well known fact that Oxbridge is easier to get into for post graduate courses than undergraduate ones. I'm not bashing degrees from other universities in the slightest, but if they specified firsts from other applicants they wouldn't fill the course.
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    (Original post by a.partridge)
    well it's a 9 month course completely made of masters level modules + a project
    Think that depends on the uni. At Cambridge our 4th year MScis are no where near 9 months long. For chemistry at least there's a 2 term project and 2 terms of lectures/tutorials.
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    (Original post by illusionz)
    It's a fairly well known fact that Oxbridge is easier to get into for post graduate courses than undergraduate ones. I'm not bashing degrees from other universities in the slightest, but if they specified firsts from other applicants they wouldn't fill the course.
    This is drastically different for different subjects - many postgraduate physics courses are *considerably* more difficult to get into than undergraduate ones.

    Getting straight GCSE's and A levels is a lot easier than getting a high first with strong research projects in physics. The applicants per place is higher and the standard of competition is too.

    I know what you're trying to say as this is what I expected too, however this is not the case in many things like physics and maths as it might be in humanities.

    Cambridge part III maths is probably the best example - very difficult to get into even cambridge students are not allowed to continue without a 1st unless they get v good 2.i with references

    I'm trying to part III physics when the time comes but i'm expecting it to be a long shot even with a 1st
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    for further info, when I emailed them about the requirements for materials science part III

    (for which it is 'at least a 2.1 Bsc)

    the guy said, yes that's the minimum but their main task is to find people who actually seem up to it so presumably higher marks the better and presumably the better university the better
Updated: May 2, 2012
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