[sclez1]

I go to a grammar school haha, but yeah there are way less than there used to be.

[kanzaz]

Yes, but like they are in Southend. Southend is odd, it has 3 grammar schools, all of which are free. A fair system of grammar schools like that should be become more prevalent i think. Not just expensive grammar schools which cater for the rich, and a few who are lucky enough to get scholarships.

(I go to a grammar school in Southend )

[Rananagirl]

Actually, we still have them, there's just fewer around.

I went to one myself. (Selective, so free but I had to do the 11+, an entrance exam and all that jazz.)

Unless you've actually experienced both, I think it's too difficult to say. I was at that school from 11 to 18, and as much as our teachers told us that comprehensive's had lower standards of teaching etc., I have no basis of actually knowing how much truth there is in that.

[IB_19]

In the area I live there are quite a few grammar schools (state run and selective), state comprehensives and independent schools. Grammar schools are a good idea for the brighter students who would have been disadvantages at local state comprehensive (as inevitably you will meet those who disrupt lessons and misbehave).

[Willez]

Most definitely. Several have said it already, but grammar schools cater to those who are simply more able than their peers. It is silly to try and push everyone into the same level of education when some are simply going to perform better and should be given the tools to take advantage of their potential. If you push everyone into the same level of education, then you need to cater for the less able students and you end up lowering the standard of education. The idea that being elitist in education is a good one, as cruel as it may sound, because people need to understand that without allowing those who are simply better more opportunities, the number of people who will succeed at a high level will drop. We need these people.

[Akuma]

We got rid of them because the left want smart working class kids to remain working class.

[whatsername2009]

I went to an all-girls' grammar school - the word 'grammar' wasn't in the name of the school but admissions are based on the 11+ exam. It was certainly beneficial for me and for the other people at my school and the equivalent for boys, but I'm not sure what impact it had on the other local schools given that the top 20% of students were selected for the grammar schools, which must have affected their results. In addition, it's questionable whether a test taken at the age of 10 or 11 should dictate the next five or seven years of your education, as I know a lot of people who changed in later years but by that time were stuck either at the grammar schools or at the comprehensives, when they would have been better suited to a different school. Finally, there's the argument that middle-class parents can get their children into grammar schools by paying for private tuition, which is something that definitely happened at my primary school - some people had 11+ tuition for three or four years before they took the exam, which must have skewed the results.

I'm not saying that I'm against grammar schools, but if they're going to be established nationwide then I think the system needs some reform to make it genuinely fairer.

[Pete_Lawton]

(Original post by kanzaz)
Yes, but like they are in Southend. Southend is odd, it has 3 grammar schools, all of which are free. A fair system of grammar schools like that should be become more prevalent i think. Not just expensive grammar schools which cater for the rich, and a few who are lucky enough to get scholarships.

(I go to a grammar school in Southend )

There's 4 in Southend... Southend High for Boys, Girls, Westcliff High for Boys, Girls. I went to SHSB where do you go then?

[Pandabär]

I went to a grammar school, but it was just called a state-run 'selective school' for girls. You took an entrance test, but it was the school's own, not the 11+.

It was blooming brilliant. It may have been state-fiunded and had keys missing from the computers and shabby buildings, but the teachers were amazing, the atmosphere was really conducive to learning, and we got excellent results and places at top unis. I like the fact that some of my friends were millionaires whilst some lived off benefits, but that was irrelevant as what mattered was ability.

I'd like to bring them back.

[Pandabär]

(Original post by whatsername2009)
In addition, it's questionable whether a test taken at the age of 10 or 11 should dictate the next five or seven years of your education, as I know a lot of people who changed in later years but by that time were stuck either at the grammar schools or at the comprehensives, when they would have been better suited to a different school.

True. My school sorted this by also allowing people to join in year 8, and a larger number to join in year 9.

We also had someone randomly turn up half way through year 10.

[domalino]

The number of proper grammar schools is in rapid decline across the uk and its now actually against the law to set a new one up (i think that is crazy) People are against them because they say it promotes a two tier learning system and they believe everyone deserves equal opportunities when it comes to learning. However IMO this is complete BS because everyone in my area (im from gloucestershire where there is a very strong grammar school culture - i think there's 5) everyone took the same 11+ exam. If everyone takes the same exam then everyone has had equal opportunity.

Grammar schools give the quality of education available at an independent school, free of charge, to people that would otherwise be struggling in classes of over 35 kids, most of whom have no interest in learning. My grammar school usually sends around 25 people a year to oxbridge, most of whom would never have got to university if they had not been able to go to a grammar school.

Both me and my sisters went to grammar schools and are all at university - the first in our family to go.

[alexsasg]

I don't think we should, because then how can you argue that the local comprehensive is truly "comprehensive" if the local grammar are creaming off the "best" kids?

I don't believe that the best kids go to grammars. Last year, one of my local grammar schools got none of their students an Oxbridge place - this year, the comprehensive I go to got 6 of us places! So while the best kids don't always go to the grammars, they do disadvantage local schools.

[whatsername2009]

(Original post by Pandabär)
True. My school sorted this by also allowing people to join in year 8, and a larger number to join in year 9.

We also had someone randomly turn up half way through year 10.

We had this as well, mainly people with extremely pushy parents who made their children sit the 12+, 13+ etc until they got in. I say the parents were pushy because nine times out of ten they only wanted their children to go to the grammar school for social reasons (i.e. they thought the comprehensive was full of riff-raff), not because their kids would genuinely be better off at grammar school. The people with less snobby parents who would have benefitted from transferring never did, though - maybe they were just determined to get the best grades they could at whatever school they went to, which is the best attitude to have as they then got excellent GCSEs and could join our school for sixth form.

[chickenonsteroids]

For some reason I don't think grammar schools are as amazing as people make them out to be. They aren't that good.

[faber niger]

It's a myth that grammar schools increase social mobility: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...ocial-mobility

And their logical correlate, the secondary moderns, certainly didn't.

Just look at the overflow of brainy TSR users 'round these parts, things aren't as bad as we might like to think.

[Beebumble]

I don't think it was grammar schools in general that was the problem. It was something to do with 11+ being biased towards middle class kids or something.

[roseroserose.]

As far as im aware there's none in Cardiff, just 2/3 privates? I was surprised there was so many left!

[mabelbarc]

Theres 3 Grammar School still in Plymouth, I go to one of them... theyre not gone.

[Contrad!ction.]

(Original post by gagaslilmonsteruk)
We've never got rid of them completely, but there are much less than what there used to be. However, the area I'm from in Dorset is well known for having 4 grammar schools in the area (and there are plenty of private schools too). I guess that it's just not an even spread across the country.

I'm thinking somewhere near Poole/Bournemouth? Poole Grammar, Parkstone Grammar, Bournemouth School and Bournemouth School for Girls? I think there's a Swanage one too.

I go to Poole High, but I could've got into Parkstone Grammar if I'd made it first choice. I can see that there is a higher standard at grammar schools, gradewise. For example, Oxbridge applicants - I don't think anyone's applied from my school yet I've got friends at Poole/Parkstone Grammar who have got offers from there. I'd say our sixth form's more vocational-based, although we do have the traditional subjects too. But I preferred Poole High right from the start, so that's where I chose to go. Also, I prefer male company, so an all-girls school would not suit me at all.

[RainDanceMaggie]

I'm in favour. Yes, everybody needs good education, but if children who excel academically are put in schools which can't meet their needs, it stops them from reaching their full potential.