[sunnybacon]

(Original post by Zaki)
I knew you lacked the integrity and ability to stand by and defend your claims with LOGIC! Ah well, at least now they can simply be tossed into the intellectual dustbin.

That is such a hypocritical thing to say to Alofleicester, considering you ignored my most recent post...suggesting you can't answer me because you know it makes sense, and YOU "lacked the integrity and ability to stand by and defend your claims with LOGIC!"

[subzero0137]

(Original post by Zaki)
No. I'm an ardent theist.

So does that mean you're an evolutionist AND a theist? Please pardon my ignorance, as English is not my first language.

[Zaki]

(Original post by sunnybacon)
That is such a hypocritical thing to say, considering you ignored my most recent post...suggesting you can't answer me because you know it makes sense, and YOU "lacked the integrity and ability to stand by and defend your claims with LOGIC!"

Is this a direct quote of me - or are you just giving YOUR VERSION of what I said? Why can't you stop yourself from distorting EVERYTHING that you come into contact with?

[sunnybacon]

(Original post by Zaki)
Is this a direct quote of me - or are you just giving YOUR VERSION of what I said? Why can't you stop yourself from distorting EVERYTHING that you come into contact with?

Eh? Yes, that is a direct quote from you, I copied and pasted it from what you said...I even quoted it
If anything, you're the one distorting things, you don't actually read what people write so we go round in circles, and then when you finally do read something properly, you don't reply back (you still haven't replied to my post on the previous page about proving/disproving the existence of God).

[Zaki]

(Original post by subzero0137)
So does that mean you're an evolutionist AND a theist? Please pardon my ignorance, as English is not my first language.

I'm a theist. And my concept of evolution is diametrically opposed to that of Darwinism. Evolution is NOT and CANNOT BE an exclusively materially based thing. Matter has NO ABILITY to evolve by itself. It can only move if driven - BY EXTERNAL FORCES! That could, in fact, be called the FIRST AND HIGHEST LAW of physics.

[SnoochToTheBooch]

(Original post by Zaki)
Not if they're atheists! Atheists ALL HATE ME! I'd be mortified if they liked me. It would mean that my arguments were not having the desired undermining and corrosive effects on theirs.

you've been banging on about logic for the past few pages then go and say something like that? you can't be real, you've got to be trolling.

[Zaki]

(Original post by SnoochToTheBooch)
you've been banging on about logic for the past few pages then go and say something like that? you can't be real, you've got to be trolling.

So perhaps you're going to point out illogic in what I've said - or are we to be treated to just some more BASELESS ASSERTIONS?

[SnoochToTheBooch]

(Original post by Zaki)
So perhaps you're going to point out illogic in what I've said - or are we to be treated to just some more BASELESS ASSERTIONS?

The second sentence didn't follow from the first. This is silly, I won't be replying to you again.

[subzero0137]

(Original post by Zaki)
I'm a theist. And my concept of evolution is diametrically opposed to that of Darwinism. Evolution is NOT and CANNOT BE an exclusively materially based thing. Matter has NO ABILITY to evolve by itself. It can only move if driven - BY EXTERNAL FORCES! That could, in fact, be called the FIRST AND HIGHEST LAW of physics.

Matter definitely has the ability to evolve/change by itself. Just look at radioactive decay. In an example of this, a carbon-14 atom (the "parent") emits radiation (a beta particle, antineutrino, and a gamma ray) and transforms to a nitrogen-14 atom (the "daughter"). THAT, is evolution of matter. Here's the funny bit: we CANNOT know when the emission will occur. It's completely random.

[Zaki]

(Original post by SnoochToTheBooch)
The second sentence didn't follow from the first. This is silly, I won't be replying to you again.

Why doesn't it follow? You see, all you atheists have are nonsensical assertions which you think you can just shove down the throats of others with all kinds of menaces. But when your bluff is called you collapse like pricked balloon dummies and go off in a huff - or should I say puff.

[sunnybacon]

I love how Zaki spews out illogical replies until we put forward an extremely convincing argument (which is actually common sense really, he just can't see it that way)...and then he doesn't reply
Must be trolling, surely.

[subzero0137]

(Original post by sunnybacon)
I love how Zaki spews out illogical replies until we put forward a convincing argument (which is actually common sense really, he just can't see it that way)...and then he doesn't reply
Must be trolling, surely.

I'm going to attempt to out-troll him today. Wish me luck!

[Zaki]

(Original post by subzero0137)
Matter definitely has the ability to evolve/change by itself. Just look at radioactive decay. In an example of this, a carbon-14 atom (the "parent") emits radiation (a beta particle, antineutrino, and a gamma ray) and transforms to a nitrogen-14 atom (the "daughter"). THAT, is evolution of matter. Here's the funny bit: we CANNOT know when the emission will occur. It's completely random.

If Matter has the ability to change by itself, why is this not the same as possessing Free Will?

What makes you think that radioactive decay has its origin in Matter? Spontaneous decay is anything but material in nature. And the theories for making some sense of it ALL point to something that is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Matter. Or do you think the wave-function resembles Matter IN ANY WAY?

[Zaki]

(Original post by sunnybacon)
I love how Zaki spews out illogical replies until we put forward an extremely convincing argument (which is actually common sense really, he just can't see it that way)...and then he doesn't reply
Must be trolling, surely.

Mention ONE argument you've EVER presented that was even vaguely LOGICAL!

[sunnybacon]

(Original post by subzero0137)
I'm going to attempt to out-troll him today. Wish me luck!

I don't think it will work unfortunately. I was arguing with him about how you don't need to prove God's existence to believe in Him...you can't even prove that God exists, that's why it's a belief! Seems simple to us, yet he's adamant that he's the only true theist because none of us can prove God exists (I've yet to see his proof).
Then he just ignores coherent arguments which he knows he doesn't have the capability to reply to...we are dealing with a master in the art of trolling here

[Stiff Little Fingers]

(Original post by subzero0137)
I'm going to attempt to out-troll him today. Wish me luck!

I fear for your sanity if your gonna attempt that dude.

Good luck, your going tae need it.

[sunnybacon]

(Original post by Zaki)
Mention ONE argument you've EVER presented that was even vaguely LOGICAL!

All my arguments have been logical, including the bit about God's existence not needing to be proven for people to believe in Him...if it was proven, then it wouldn't be a belief, it would be a fact. And the most recent post from this argument you conveniently ignored.

[subzero0137]

(Original post by Zaki)
If Matter has the ability to change by itself, why is this not the same as possessing Free Will?

What makes you think that radioactive decay has its origin in Matter? Spontaneous decay is anything but material in nature. And the theories for making some sense of it ALL point to something that is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Matter. Or do you think the wave-function resembles Matter IN ANY WAY?

Wave-function? So now you wish to discuss the Copen-hagen interpretation of Quantum mechanics? Why don't you stick to the current topic?

You mentioned 'origin in matter'. Nice strawman. Again, that has nothing to do with evolution of matter. Evolution of any kind is NOT concerned with the 'origin' of matter.

"Spontaneous decay is anything but material in nature."

What does even mean? There's a lot about the structure of atom that we don't yet fully understand. I'm sure you know that the nucleus of an atom consists of protons (positively charged particles). We KNOW that like charges repel, so why is it that the protons stay in their place to form the nucleus, instead of just being repelled by other protons? The answer to that is STRONG NUCLEAR FORCE. What is this strong force? Where does it come from? Does it originate within quarks and gluons? What are quarks and gluons anyway? What are they made of?

These are all questions that are yet to be answered by the physicists. Just because we don't fully understand something, doesn't necessarily mean that the only explanation for the phenomena is "God did it." That's essentially the God of the gaps fallacy.

[Zaki]

(Original post by subzero0137)
Wave-function? So now you wish to discuss the Copen-hagen interpretation of Quantum mechanics? Why don't you stick to the current topic?

You mentioned 'origin in matter'. Nice strawman. Again, that has nothing to do with evolution of matter. Evolution of any kind is NOT concerned with the 'origin' of matter.

"Spontaneous decay is anything but material in nature."

What does even mean? There's a lot about the structure of atom that we don't yet fully understand. I'm sure you know that the nucleus of an atom consists of protons (positively charged particles). We KNOW that like charges repel, so why is it that the protons stay in there place to form the nucleus, instead of just being repelled by other protons? The answer to that is STRONG NUCLEAR FORCE. What is this strong force? Where does it come from? Does it originate within quarks and gluons? What are quarks and gluons anyway? What are they made of?

These are all questions that are yet to be answered by the physicists. Just because we don't fully understand something, doesn't necessarily mean that the only explanation for the phenomena is "God did it." That's essentially the God of the gaps fallacy.

Don't be silly! What is it you're referring to as Matter even? Do you know - or NOT?

If you don't understand something, you should confess your ignorance - and don't claim that ALL OTHERS must share it! Clearly, you neither know what God or Matter is - and are just ignorantly expressing opinions about both. If you had a PRECISE definition for both, it would be no difficult matter to find out what the correct relationship between them is. The fact is that you're relying on atheistic dogma for your guidance here. Which is why you automatically rule out ANY explanations that do not begin and end with Matter in the benighted, myopic way of the materialist.

You DON'T KNOW! Admit that! Only then will the way open for you to go forth and gain new knowledge. As long as you continue to pretend you know where you are ignorant, you will remain ignorant!

[Zaki]

(Original post by sunnybacon)
All my arguments have been logical, including the bit about God's existence not needing to be proven for people to believe in Him...if it was proven, then it wouldn't be a belief, it would be a fact. And the most recent post from this argument you conveniently ignored.

Don't be stupid! The FACT that the Andromeda galaxy has been in existence for billions of years has NOTHING to do with whether this has been proven to dullards or not. They may indeed come to discover this FACT. It does not come into existence only when they choose to believe it.

And someone who says he believes in something he KNOWS NOT TO BE A FACT is either a LIAR or FANTASIST!