The Liverpool FC Thread VII

Original post by Jim-Jam

I dunno, I still think Adam Johnson's class, and he's English. :/

But the Darren Bent rumours have come back I see... Has he ever dropped below, say, 15 league goals a season?

Can someone please explain why Liverpool fans seem to love Adam Johnson? I don't buy it. I see that he has more technical ability and trickery in him than is usual for an English player but he hasn't excelled in an excellent Manchester City side, even if he hasn't been given enough of a run. He is frustrating to watch. Not enough end product and makes poor decisions. It would feel like another Ryan Babel. He is definitely talented and would have been a much better buy than Stewart Downing but I don't feel he would propel us to where we need to be. I wouldn't mind it but only if we had another top class right winger so that we don't put all our eggs in one basket. I just don't think we have the money to do that. Also, you'd think City would keep him just to make up the english quota for Europe.

But it is very clear that Mancini does not trust him but doesn't want to sell him.

Reply 8343

Deshi

19

Original post by jam277

Why not get henderson a run in the team in a defined position since he was 12 million and needs games to actually improve which sorts out the CM position? Also, is suarez more effective behind the striker or as a left winger or are you just trying to accommodate carroll into the team in a 4-3-3 system.

Johnson would be a good buy, but I don't see him leaving city yet until he gets frustrated with his game time but he's a vast improvement on downing.

Could give Henderson a go, but like I said I'd prefer someone a bit more defensive, our midfield has been outdone too many times this season.

I put Suarez there but I expect him to roam around like he always does.

Original post by lifeshard

We still need a striker other than Carroll. It would be foolish to try and rely on him. Even though he was fantastic against Chelsea he still only has 4 league goals.

I don't want that striker to be Bent either. He offers nothing other to the build up play and I guarentee we'd all be complaining about Bent not getting enough service. I'd have him as an extra striker after Carroll and another top quality one but Bent would just cost too much for that. He is also 28 and may bring his Aston Villa syndrome with him that Downing seems to have.

We definitely do, I just couldn't think of anyone atm. Enrique needs some competition as well.

Original post by Stirlo

Gaston Ramirez for the wing?

No idea who he is, is he decent? I've only followed Liverpool this year and don't have too much of a clue about other players/teams this season.

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Original post by lifeshard

England doesn't end in London. If you won the CL, you could have a real claim to being the best team in LONDON. Since when is London synonomous with England? Manchester right now is the best footballing city in England so Chelsea cannot be the best team in England if TWO TEAMS IN MANCHESTER ARE 25 POINTS AHEAD OF YOU IN THE LEAGUE!

I would still count on Arsenal achieving more than Chelsea next season because Chelsea have to REBUILD while Arsenal just have to readjust.

I don't think Terry is Englands best defender. Not at all. That's Ashley Cole and he is also Chelseas best defender. If you meant to say centre back I still don't think that either. I would have no qualms if he was left out of the Euro 2012 squad. Out of all of 'Englands old guard' he's the one i'd miss the least along with Lampard. It's not like I don't like John Terry, I actually do. There have been quite a few centrebacks a level above him this season to say the least. I could name at least 6.

If you actually, whole heartedly don't think Drogba, Lampard and Terry are best their best (did you ever watch Chelsea before last season???) and you think Chelsea are the best team in Europe. I don't have much to say to you anymore.

I didn't think Cech looked all that solid last season but if Chelsea thought he was fair play. Having the best defensive record in the league doesn't mean the goalkeeper was great. We have the best defensive record after Manchester and Reina has been absolutely poor.

The points tally doesn't lie like you said. I get your point about the best team in england and manchester being the best city, but bare in mind this has been one poor season, not two or three. In the poor season, we are FA cup winners, top 4 hopefuls and CL finalists, I could easily say this is a blip.

If's and buts with arsenal, chelsea still probably have the better team but arsenal have a younger squad which can only improve.

Just wondering, everyone says that terry isn't the best centre back in england, but no one says who is a better english centre back than terry? It's not cahill seeing his early season form and lescott can't play a single game without kompany or jagielka and play well, he needs a solid partnership while terry can play with anyone. That leaves the united defenders, if terry is past his best, then don't even bother with rio ferdinand, there's jones and smalling, jones being positionally suspect and doesn't even have a defined CB position yet to be judged.

So that leaves smalling vs terry. Did you watch cole earlier in the season? He was absolutely terrible by his standards.

Cech did do pretty well last season, he was terrible in the first half of this season, had he'd been better in december, we wouldn't have been in a top 4 battle, I watched every single game in december, the 1-1 draws were all because cech misjudged a cross that I could have honestly sorted out. Add to that we had like only 3 clean sheets in the league by december, he was terrible, it was only until Di matteo came that he improved.

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Original post by jam277

You don't deserve to take a game to extra time because you turn up for half an hour. Chelsea turned up the whole match, we just parked the bus near the end as you guys looked to get the equalizer, it would have still been 2-0 if it wasn't for bosingwa and ivanovic's mistake in losing possession.

We deserved to take it to extra time because the last half hour was the best thirty minutes of the whole game. But it wasn't meant to be.

Huh? It could have been 1-1 if it wasn't for Reina, or if it wasn't for Spearings defensive mistake. Stupid statement to make.

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Stirlo

Original post by Deshi

No idea who he is, is he decent? I've only followed Liverpool this year and don't have too much of a clue about other players/teams this season.

I think so yeh from the few times I've seen him play for Bologna. He's only 21 and is Uruguayan too so would have a partnership with Suarez. He isn't an out and out winger, I'd say he was similar to Maxi. But he definitely looks very good and still has loads of time to improve further.

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Original post by Deshi

Could give Henderson a go, but like I said I'd prefer someone a bit more defensive, our midfield has been outdone too many times this season.

I put Suarez there but I expect him to roam around like he always does.

We definitely do, I just couldn't think of anyone atm. Enrique needs some competition as well.

No idea who he is, is he decent? I've only followed Liverpool this year and don't have too much of a clue about other players/teams this season.

Why not retrain henderson into a more defensive role or as a normal CM? The guy needs a run of games, he's not going to improve on the right wing and he's not going to sub gerrard to play for 10 mins every match. Shelvey needs to be loaned off again to blackpool or something. I don't see why you took him back to then hardly play him, add to that he's not a DM so wouldn't replace lucas and you had enough CM's to make up for shelvey's departure.

Wasn't lucas originally an AM? You could do the same for henderson with the CM position.

With suarez roaming about, wouldn't that put pressure on enrique if suarez is caught in possession. I'm not really a fan of having wingers who don't track back.

The left back role, I dunno, Glen johnson puts a good shift in there as well like he did near the end of the last season and it gives martin kelly games in the process. Maybe a left back to improve squad depth in an injury crisis.

With gaston ramirez, he's good in FM so I guess he's a decent shout. I'm sure alan pardew was playing FM when he bought all those signings.

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Original post by jam277

The points tally doesn't lie like you said. I get your point about the best team in england and manchester being the best city, but bare in mind this has been one poor season, not two or three. In the poor season, we are FA cup winners, top 4 hopefuls and CL finalists, I could easily say this is a blip.

If's and buts with arsenal, chelsea still probably have the better team but arsenal have a younger squad which can only improve.

Just wondering, everyone says that terry isn't the best centre back in england, but no one says who is a better english centre back than terry? It's not cahill seeing his early season form and lescott can't play a single game without kompany or jagielka and play well, he needs a solid partnership while terry can play with anyone. That leaves the united defenders, if terry is past his best, then don't even bother with rio ferdinand, there's jones and smalling, jones being positionally suspect and doesn't even have a defined CB position yet to be judged.

So that leaves smalling vs terry. Did you watch cole earlier in the season? He was absolutely terrible by his standards.

Cech did do pretty well last season, he was terrible in the first half of this season, had he'd been better in december, we wouldn't have been in a top 4 battle, I watched every single game in december, the 1-1 draws were all because cech misjudged a cross that I could have honestly sorted out. Add to that we had like only 3 clean sheets in the league by december, he was terrible, it was only until Di matteo came that he improved.

It has been a poor season for Chelseas standards in the league. But it has been a great season at the same time in the cups.

I think Arsenal will do better next year. I think RVP will stay, they'll sign Podolski, Vertonghen and M'Villa. They'll have the better team. Chelsea will be in transition and it will be difficult for them. I don't know if Arsenal will win any trophies or contend for the title because you never know with them.

It's difficult to say but imo Terry isn't the best English centreback atm. But he's solid and he's experienced and not prone to mistakes (like Carra). I just don't like Carragher or JT playing for England because it's clear they don't care that much. I personally think Lescott is better right now and a Lescott/Cahill partnership will work better than anything else. It's difficult to say because England isn't very blessed with very good centrebacks atm but just a lot of young ones and old-past-their-prime ones. I think England will go with a back four of Walker - Cahill - Lescott - Cole. I would prefer Johnson to Walker but he's just got PFA young player of the year can't see him being left out or Richards either. It's also Roy, didn't like Glen much did he. Terry should come as back up but if he didn't, I wouldn't be fussed.

(edited 11 years ago)

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Original post by lifeshard

We deserved to take it to extra time because the last half hour was the best thirty minutes of the whole game. But it wasn't meant to be.

Huh? It could have been 1-1 if it wasn't for Reina, or if it wasn't for Spearings defensive mistake. Stupid statement to make.

I know, I'm just saying that because I don't like it when someone complains about how they deserve to win a match. You create chances but they weren't taken. How many crosses hit the first man or was just headed out by the 'chelsea bus'? A lot of chances were squandered and poor finishing costed you. You just can't not turn up for an FA cup final for an hour and expect to take it to extra time because you performed brilliantly for the next half an hour.

Had you'd been playing like that the whole match, then you could have had a good claim, even then I could say chelsea were more disciplined defensively.

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Original post by lifeshard

It has been a poor season for Chelseas standards in the league. But it has been a great season at the same time in the cups.

I think Arsenal will do better next year. I think RVP will stay, they'll sign Podolski, Vertonghen and M'Villa. They'll have the better team. Chelsea will be in transition and it will be difficult for them. I don't know if Arsenal will win any trophies or contend for the title because you never know with them.

It's difficult to say but imo Terry isn't the best English centreback atm. But he's solid and he's experienced and not prone to mistakes (like Carra). I personally think Lescott is better right now and a Lescott/Cahill partnership will work better than anything else. It's difficult to say because England isn't very blessed with very good centrebacks atm but just a lot of young ones and old-past-their-prime ones. I think England will go with a back four of Walker - Cahill - Lescott - Cole. I would prefer Johnson to Walker but he's just got PFA young player of the year can't see him being left out or Richards either. It's also Roy, didn't like Glen much did he. Terry should come as back up but if he didn't, I wouldn't be fussed.

Yeah that could be a point, but who can lead that defence? Like I said before lescott needs a solid partnership as well to do well while terry could work with anyone. I don't want to see walker there, richards is a better right back and johnson is a better right back, the guy is so overrated it's unbelievable, I know he's quality but to win young player of the year over aguero and richards is a ****ing joke.

Lol, arsenal to buy vertonghen and M'villa. Knowing arsenal they'll say they'll buy them, be locked in transfer talks for months and madrid, chelsea or city will just offer the club the same amount of money and higher wages for the players.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 8351

Strangeclouds

Original post by Deshi

I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to try the buy english crap again after this season.

I'l looking forward to Lucas coming back in next season, no matter who we've play in his position none have come close to him this season. Can't fault Spearing because he tries really hard, he can't help it if he just isn't very good

Since that first mistake against Arsenal at the start of the season Reina has looked a shadow of his former self. Hoping he gets back to his best next season.

------------Reina-----------
Johnson-Skrtel-Agger-Enrique
------------Lucas-----------
--------Gerrard-xxxxxxx-----
xxxxxxxx--------------Suarez
------------Carroll----------

That's how I would start next season, with obviously two purchases. The more defensive the other centre midfielder is the better imo, it'll allow Gerrard to stay up the pitch where he is most effective.

I have no idea about the right wing, someone tricky/able to cross/quick.

Too narrow for Carroll to be effective, as Suarez isn't much of a crosser, Enrique's delivery has been poor, and it seems Johnson is under orders to stay back.

Gerrard should not be considered a priority for this new formation, unfortunately, injuries, form, or simply age have reduced his effectiveness.

Carroll and Suarez have to be up front together, and I'd fancy a diamond (not possible with our current players), so a 4-1-3-2 is probably the way to go. Lucas is good enough to sit deep alone in pretty much every game, his performances against City and Chelsea back to back were as good as anything I ever saw from Mascherano.

back 5
------------Lucas----------------
--RW--------Gerrard------------LW
---------Carroll-----Suarez---------

When the going is tough, Suarez can drop off a bit and Gerrard help Lucas out. In the medium term, Gerrard can be replaced by a proper number 10. This formation would also work well if Kenny has the guts to buy a proper goalscorer, someone like De Jong or Dost to play alongside Suarez.

I'm undecided about buying a new central mid, obviously we need someone who can cover for Lucas, but Henderson hasn't been bought for no reason. The trouble with Henderson is, he's a good young player, but he's not good enough to start as a DM, and he's not good enough to play as a number 10. He doesn't provide adequate cover if Lucas gets injured. Adam can't play in the big games imo, and a midfield of Henderson-Adam would be disaster, attacking and defending. Spearing is an honest player, but he's slipped up notably a few times this season, and unfortunately, it's fair to class him as a liability. With Gerrard's injury record and Lucas only coming back after a long time out, I think it's probably best to sell Adam and buy a versatile midfielder. Someone in the mould of Yaya Toure (ie, Seydou Keita) would be perfect, but obviously I'm in dreamland.

At least 4 players are required then (RW, LW, ST and CM), but I reckon with those 4 we'd be good for third. It's easy to say that we're in eighth, but had we turned a few draws into wins earlier in the season, we could well have been top 4 atm. The defence finally cracked after January, and I guess you can't blame them, because of the pressure that was put on them, because of Adam and Spearing's ball retention failures, although Enrique's form definitely dropped off.

Reply 8352

Original post by jam277

I know, I'm just saying that because I don't like it when someone complains about how they deserve to win a match. You create chances but they weren't taken. How many crosses hit the first man or was just headed out by the 'chelsea bus'? A lot of chances were squandered and poor finishing costed you. You just can't not turn up for an FA cup final for an hour and expect to take it to extra time because you performed brilliantly for the next half an hour.

Maybe if Chelsea totally outplay and dominate Bayern Munich for 90 minutes in a couple of weeks and then get beat by a last minute penalty, you'll feel differently about people ''complaining'' about deservance.

I didn't say we deserved to win that game. We should and could have taken it to extra time is what I said. But we have deserved to win countless games this season on the balance of play but we squander chances and waste oppurtunities and we only have ourselves to blame for that.

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LuisSuarez7

7

The rumors about Luuk De Jong seem to be picking up pace. Very good tricky little player and seems to know where the goal is judging by his record this season (30+ goals). With clubs like Man United, Chelsea and Arsenal being interested it would be hard for us to get him considering we can't offer Champions League.

Reply 8354

Pn94

Arsenal close to signing M'Vila apparently, I wouldn't have minded him here. A CM is a must in the summer imo.

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Original post by lifeshard

Maybe if Chelsea totally outplay and dominate Bayern Munich for 90 minutes in a couple of weeks and then get beat by a last minute penalty, you'll feel differently about people ''complaining'' about deservance.

I didn't say we deserved to win that game. We should and could have taken it to extra time is what I said. But we have deserved to win countless games this season on the balance of play but we squander chances and waste oppurtunities and we only have ourselves to blame for that.

We faced everton earlier in the season and lost 2-0, we had all the possession and pretty much outplayed them, they just defended better and got a goal from a set piece and a counter attack. I know how it feels, we didn't deserve to win the game as we weren't clinical enough and couldn't convert enough chances.

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Gob Bluth

21

Original post by jam277

We faced everton earlier in the season and lost 2-0, we had all the possession and pretty much outplayed them, they just defended better and got a goal from a set piece and a counter attack. I know how it feels, we didn't deserve to win the game as we weren't clinical enough and couldn't convert enough chances.

Everton are one of the best teams in Europe then based in some of the logic i have heard then :rolleyes:

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WhatIsAUsername?

10

Original post by jam277

We faced everton earlier in the season and lost 2-0, we had all the possession and pretty much outplayed them, they just defended better and got a goal from a set piece and a counter attack. I know how it feels, we didn't deserve to win the game as we weren't clinical enough and couldn't convert enough chances.

Your season hinges on one game this season. If Chelsea don't win the CL and finish outside of the top 4, this season will be a huge failure. Worse than Liverpool, in fact.

Don't forget you spent 150m since 2011 and more than double the net spend than Liverpool. All this resulting in possibly the worst season under the Abramovich era.

Reply 8358

Original post by Strangeclouds

Too narrow for Carroll to be effective, as Suarez isn't much of a crosser, Enrique's delivery has been poor, and it seems Johnson is under orders to stay back.

Gerrard should not be considered a priority for this new formation, unfortunately, injuries, form, or simply age have reduced his effectiveness.

Carroll and Suarez have to be up front together, and I'd fancy a diamond (not possible with our current players), so a 4-1-3-2 is probably the way to go. Lucas is good enough to sit deep alone in pretty much every game, his performances against City and Chelsea back to back were as good as anything I ever saw from Mascherano.

back 5
------------Lucas----------------
--RW--------Gerrard------------LW
---------Carroll-----Suarez---------

When the going is tough, Suarez can drop off a bit and Gerrard help Lucas out. In the medium term, Gerrard can be replaced by a proper number 10. This formation would also work well if Kenny has the guts to buy a proper goalscorer, someone like De Jong or Dost to play alongside Suarez.

I'm undecided about buying a new central mid, obviously we need someone who can cover for Lucas, but Henderson hasn't been bought for no reason. The trouble with Henderson is, he's a good young player, but he's not good enough to start as a DM, and he's not good enough to play as a number 10. He doesn't provide adequate cover if Lucas gets injured. Adam can't play in the big games imo, and a midfield of Henderson-Adam would be disaster, attacking and defending. Spearing is an honest player, but he's slipped up notably a few times this season, and unfortunately, it's fair to class him as a liability. With Gerrard's injury record and Lucas only coming back after a long time out, I think it's probably best to sell Adam and buy a versatile midfielder. Someone in the mould of Yaya Toure (ie, Seydou Keita) would be perfect, but obviously I'm in dreamland.

At least 4 players are required then (RW, LW, ST and CM), but I reckon with those 4 we'd be good for third. It's easy to say that we're in eighth, but had we turned a few draws into wins earlier in the season, we could well have been top 4 atm. The defence finally cracked after January, and I guess you can't blame them, because of the pressure that was put on them, because of Adam and Spearing's ball retention failures, although Enrique's form definitely dropped off.

A 4-1-3-2 can only work like you said with versatile players who can drop off and change the formation into a 4-2-3-1 as I don't think lucas can do it on his own, especially against teams who will be in the latter europa league stages like inter/bilbao and top 4 teams. Henderson needs to play as a CM or you have to retrain him into a DM/AM. He's 12 million who is on the bench.

Doubt you will sell adam unless dalglish is sacked and the board force it.
Aquilani potentially staying at liverpool could work with the whole lack of an AM problem. Do you think that aquilani is gone or will he stay seeing as milan don't want him?

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