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The Government says there's no money...but Gove says get a £60m yacht for the Queen?

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    (Original post by internet tough guy)
    The thing is though, all that you've said above bears absolutely no relevance to the 'economic boost' that you've attributed the diamond jubilee as having.
    The economic boost is immesurable, because it comes down to subtle things. However, directly I would argue it probably will have.

    (Original post by JBullyWBA)
    If this was something that the whole country could enjoy such as a ceremony or some kind of show, then i would be inclined to agree.

    However, it's a friggin' boat. What possible joy could that give the British people wanting to celebrate the Diamond Jubilee? None. It's just something shiny for the royals to sit in and wave from. Whilst £60m may be 'a drop in the ocean compared to the Olympics or benefits bill', i could think of a whole bunch of worse for wear areas that could use £60m better than on a yacht!
    The yacht is to be the centrepiece of the entire procession.
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    The yacht was to be privately funded. But don't let that get in the way of your piss parade, eh...
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    And he used to go to my school too... :facepalm:
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    (Original post by ForKicks)
    Yet they have done more for this country than you have ever done and probably ever will.. Also, they give back more than they receive, look at figures first!
    You're right they have done more for this country than me, but its because I, like everybody else, don't have the chance to be in charge. I believe in democracy. I don't care how murderous someones great great great granddaddy was.

    And if you want to talk figures, you can't deny that monarchy is expensive. The monarchy is estimated to cost British taxpayers £202.4m, when costs such as security are included, making it the most expensive monarchy in Europe.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    The economic boost is immesurable, because it comes down to subtle things. However, directly I would argue it probably will have.



    The yacht is to be the centrepiece of the entire procession.
    What entire procession? If a yacht was to be built it certainly won't be ready for another 5 years, jubilee is this year. However it is true building a yacht will bring some economic benefits to the country though you can get better effects by spending it elsewhere.

    Unless of course there already is some brand new yacht laying in some shipyard somewhere that someone couldn't pay I doubt there will be a royal yacht for a procession this year and if there was indeed one, then it's a moot point with regard to benefits to the economy.
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    (Original post by MirandaPanda)
    Proof?

    I've read, though its the Republic, that the Crown Estate belongs to Parliment at best and thus would still be retained by the public should the country go to a Republic. As I say, I don't mind seeing direct evidence to the contrary.



    Did I say she did, or have you just moronically made up a faux argument which you yourself have then retorted? She may do work, but she also gets paid by the taxpayer for that work (as well as having every need she or her family could ever have in this world taken care of). A £60m yacht is not needed on top of all that, particularly in these austere times :rolleyes:
    read about the crown estate you ignorant fool.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    If it is that bad she can abdicate you know.
    She does have a choice in it.
    There is no other woman in Britain with a greater sense of duty than the Queen. Certainly not from any of the doleys that you keep defending.
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    (Original post by LFCdanny08)
    You're right they have done more for this country than me, but its because I, like everybody else, don't have the chance to be in charge. I believe in democracy. I don't care how murderous someones great great great granddaddy was.

    And if you want to talk figures, you can't deny that monarchy is expensive. The monarchy is estimated to cost British taxpayers £202.4m, when costs such as security are included, making it the most expensive monarchy in Europe.
    A figure from a republican website is hardly accurate. Besides, it is said the Queen contributes £200 m per year from her estates. Now add on the amount the royal family attracts to economy through tourism etc and the valuable service of representing the nation, helping charities and conservation..

    Even if she didn't pay anything back and made no contribution, that is 61p per year for you to pay in tax. I would pay that just to not bother having to change stamps and currency etc!!
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    (Original post by ForKicks)
    A figure from a republican website is hardly accurate. Besides, it is said the Queen contributes £200 m per year from her estates. Now add on the amount the royal family attracts to economy through tourism etc and the valuable service of representing the nation, helping charities and conservation..

    Even if she didn't pay anything back and made no contribution, that is 61p per year for you to pay in tax. I would pay that just to not bother having to change stamps and currency etc!!
    I could question all your figures as well but i really can't be bothered with this. I dislike the Queen, you love the Queen. Everybody has a right to their own opinion. Let's agree to disagree.
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    (Original post by LFCdanny08)
    I could question all your figures as well but i really can't be bothered with this. I dislike the Queen, you love the Queen. Everybody has a right to their own opinion. Let's agree to disagree.
    Yeah, true
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    (Original post by ForKicks)
    A figure from a republican website is hardly accurate. Besides, it is said the Queen contributes £200 m per year from her estates. Now add on the amount the royal family attracts to economy through tourism etc and the valuable service of representing the nation, helping charities and conservation..

    Even if she didn't pay anything back and made no contribution, that is 61p per year for you to pay in tax. I would pay that just to not bother having to change stamps and currency etc!!
    61p figure is a lie - they get it by taking the Civil List and dividing it by every man, woman and child in the country. Figure could be as high as £202m pa.

    Visit Britain has actually said that they have no evidence at all that tourism would slow down if we were a Republic.

    Prince Phillip's attempts at representing the nation are an embarrassment - imagine Cameron going round saying half of this stuff?!.

    Charity - do you really think that when we abolish the monarchy, the people in the institution will fade into nothingness?! Of course not! 'Wills and Kate' will still be famous, and able to carry on being patrons of their charities (and taking the credit from the grass roots money collectors who actually deserve it...)

    Anything else?



    This may be the most idiotic thing I've every heard any Government minister suggest.

    "Hmm, unemployment is gonna hit 3m, public sector will pay more for pensions, we're on the brink of economic collapse... OOH! BUY THE QUEEN A BOAT AT OUR EXPENSE FOR SITTING ON A CHAIR AND SHAKING HANDS FOR 60 YEARS!"

    We've killed Sure Start, for frick's sake! We've killed bloody Sure Start and he wants to buy a boat for a rich old lady?! What on earth happened to "We're all in it together"?!

    Unsurprisingly, Chuck has been sticking his nose into the whole sorry affair!
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    (Original post by JoeLatics)
    61p figure is a lie - they get it by taking the Civil List and dividing it by every man, woman and child in the country. Figure could be as high as £202m pa.

    Visit Britain has actually said that they have no evidence at all that tourism would slow down if we were a Republic.

    Prince Phillip's attempts at representing the nation are an embarrassment - imagine Cameron going round saying half of this stuff?!.

    Charity - do you really think that when we abolish the monarchy, the people in the institution will fade into nothingness?! Of course not! 'Wills and Kate' will still be famous, and able to carry on being patrons of their charities (and taking the credit from the grass roots money collectors who actually deserve it...)

    Anything else?



    This may be the most idiotic thing I've every heard any Government minister suggest.

    "Hmm, unemployment is gonna hit 3m, public sector will pay more for pensions, we're on the brink of economic collapse... OOH! BUY THE QUEEN A BOAT AT OUR EXPENSE FOR SITTING ON A CHAIR AND SHAKING HANDS FOR 60 YEARS!"

    We've killed Sure Start, for frick's sake! We've killed bloody Sure Start and he wants to buy a boat for a rich old lady?! What on earth happened to "We're all in it together"?!

    Unsurprisingly, Chuck has been sticking his nose into the whole sorry affair!
    I have seen figures saying the Queen makes more than £200 million per country in the year. Anyway, the royal family are great heads of state, why expensively fix what isn't broken? Even the President of the US has respect for the Queen. Do you honestly think a UK President would get that level of respect? You also forget about the Commonwealth and history of relations between the monarchy and other states. 60 years shaking hands and sitting on a chair? Do you have a 10 year old's concept of what the Queen does?! They are looking to private donations for the yacht anyway. Public at most was only ever implied.
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    For those against the yacht, how about we have a £10 firework display for the opening and closing ceremony rather than £80 million? Surely that 80 million could be sent to help in somewhere like Africa?
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    (Original post by ForKicks)
    I have seen figures saying the Queen makes more than £200 million per country in the year.
    Source?

    (Original post by ForKicks)
    Anyway, the royal family are great heads of state, why expensively fix what isn't broken?
    Wrong. The Queen is a decent Head of State (at best - we've got nothing to compare her to in the modern era). You really think Charles will be? THAT is precisely why the monarchy is broken. We could, under an electative system, decide that we wanted Elizabeth Windsor, and then when she'd finished, we could skip right over Charles, onto a David Attenborough or a Steven Fry.

    (Original post by ForKicks)
    Even the President of the US has respect for the Queen.
    Obama would probably have respect for my Nan as well. Should she be Head of State?

    (Original post by ForKicks)
    Do you honestly think a UK President would get that level of respect?
    Yes. Just by virtue of being Head of State of Britain.

    (Original post by ForKicks)
    You also forget about the Commonwealth and history of relations between the monarchy and other states.
    Great point. It's been there for ages, so we should keep it. Bring back slavery! Bring back hanging!

    Jamaica is only the latest to be getting rid. The Australian PM has said she will get rid after Liz has died. The rest will follow.

    (Original post by ForKicks)
    60 years shaking hands and sitting on a chair? Do you have a 10 year old's concept of what the Queen does?!
    Feel free to expand...

    (Original post by ForKicks)
    They are looking to private donations for the yacht anyway. Public at most was only ever implied.
    Not going to tell people what to do with their own money, but why not donate £60,000,000 to worthwhile charities, which you reliably inform me the Windsor family do so much for?



    (Original post by ForKicks)
    For those against the yacht, how about we have a £10 firework display for the opening and closing ceremony rather than £80 million? Surely that 80 million could be sent to help in somewhere like Africa?
    Don't be an idiot. I look at those starving African children and feel a little sad, I look at people at home losing jobs and livelihoods and feel slight remorse... But all that pales into insignificance when I imagine Liz's face when she opens her yacht!
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    (Original post by JoeLatics)
    X
    I just wanted to say, as a positive rep doesn't seem like enough, that your posts in this thread are the best here (i.e. reasoned and dispelling the constant myths which surround the monarchy), bar none; thank you for taking the time out to write them
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    (Original post by MirandaPanda)
    I just wanted to say, as a positive rep doesn't seem like enough, that your posts in this thread are the best here (i.e. reasoned and dispelling the constant myths which surround the monarchy), bar none; thank you for taking the time out to write them
    Thanks for the compliment, very kind of you
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    (Original post by JoeLatics)
    Source?



    Wrong. The Queen is a decent Head of State (at best - we've got nothing to compare her to in the modern era). You really think Charles will be? THAT is precisely why the monarchy is broken. We could, under an electative system, decide that we wanted Elizabeth Windsor, and then when she'd finished, we could skip right over Charles, onto a David Attenborough or a Steven Fry.



    Obama would probably have respect for my Nan as well. Should she be Head of State?



    Yes. Just by virtue of being Head of State of Britain.



    Great point. It's been there for ages, so we should keep it. Bring back slavery! Bring back hanging!

    Jamaica is only the latest to be getting rid. The Australian PM has said she will get rid after Liz has died. The rest will follow.



    Feel free to expand...



    Not going to tell people what to do with their own money, but why not donate £60,000,000 to worthwhile charities, which you reliably inform me the Windsor family do so much for?





    Don't be an idiot. I look at those starving African children and feel a little sad, I look at people at home losing jobs and livelihoods and feel slight remorse... But all that pales into insignificance when I imagine Liz's face when she opens her yacht!
    lol

    in other news, the republic campaign who are represented in your avatar have announced they are going to be protesting the jubilee celebrations - seriously?

    In more important news, it seems that Cameron has given backing to the idea and its to be funded privately.

    Personally I wouldnt see a problem with half of the money coming from the public purse. Its been continually proven that the crown estate offsets the civil list and any other public costs of the monarchy many times over no matter how much republicans try to pull figures out of the air. Given the unfaltering and dedicated service her majesty has offered during her entire lifetime, it would be befitting for the people to gift her this present at such a landmark occasion in her reign.
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPJq8...yer_embedded#!

    lol. Nails it again.
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    (Original post by Square)
    lol
    Feel free to expand. 'Lol' doesn't really work as an argument in a constitutional debate, I'm afraid
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Oh please. This is a drop in the ocean compared to the Olympics or the benifits bill. The Diamond Jubilee isn't something that happens everyday, when was the last one?
    I actually agree with this. I am a Royalist, I think things like the Diamond Jubilee can be good for the country, its a time people can relax and enjoy the celebrations as the week goes on. (If thats if you are a royalist, many on TSR obviously won't be)

    Fair enough the Country is in debt, but If you are going to moan about a £60 million Yacht, you might as well add the Olympics, the Royal Wedding, things like that. But personally, I'd rather be couple of quid a worse of a week to enjoy occasions like the Olympics and the Diamond Jubilee. Like I said, I'll obviously getting negged for my views but I would appreciate if you could quote me.

    Oh if I didn't make myself clear, I don't actually agree the Queen should be given a £60 million Yacht, making my point more about special occasions like the Royal Wedding.
Updated: April 23, 2012
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