[NightFire411]

(Original post by ed-)
There is when you start claiming that you're 'educating' people when you're not.

At first I was simply asking rather I passed or not. And now as the discussion moves forward I am using the opportunity to educate people.

[kerily]

(Original post by syrettd)
Hi, Kerily, I hope you don't get offended, but I'm a massive lurker on these forums, and something has been on my mind ever since I saw you wrote somewhere that you have blue hair...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/slink/real-life...as-born-a-girl

Was that written about you? I hope you're not offended by me asking, but I wondered if it was, I didn't know how many blue haired FTM transgenders there were. I just ask because I remembered reading it a year ago and it kind of restored my belief that the world is full of people that will accept you and love you for who you are inside.

EDIT: Oh, also, if this does offend you and its about you, I will delete this post

EDIT 2: Oh, and OP I think you pass fairly well

That's actually not me, I'm sorry to disappoint! Evidently I have a twin

[Beady]

(Original post by ed-)
If it wasn't controversial, why would there be prejudice?

There's predjudice towards people because of the colour of their skin, so is being black/asian or whatever controversial?

(Original post by ed-)
It's controversial because transgender people claim they're born in the wrong body and that it's not a lifestyle choice, but there's yet to see any credible scientific evidence for this.

I'm sure we could both argue forever on this in particular but for now lets just accept some people are gay, some are straight and some are trans.

(Original post by ed-)
The reason I'm taking issue with this is that generally, I don't care. It's not until people start claiming that there's an issue so that they can wave their views in your face that I see a problem. Such as now. Such as gay pride marches.

On gay pride marches, to me at least I see it more as saying that there is nothing wrong with being LGBT and that people should not behave with prejudice towards others. All over the world people get persecuted for being LGBT and I see gay pride marches as almost saying "screw what they think of you, embrace who you are."

And I see your a conservative, sometimes sterotypes just play themselves out.

[Annoying-Mouse]

(Original post by NYU2012)
That's not how gender works.

It's more like... A fiat that has a ferrari engine and ferrari parts and ferrari handling and in every way IS a ferrari except one. It's not still a fiat; that wouldn't make any sense. That would imply that objects do not change over time or through change of parts. Not that I want to get into the philosophy of object continuation over time or through change of parts, but the statement you've made is highly absurd.

It's not still a fiat, it's a categorically new object.

This is merely a linguistic problem. If someone defines a women as someone with a vagina and a man someone with a penis and anyone else who has a mixture of the two or neither as trans then she would be classed as a women because she only thinks to herself as a man whereas from that definition she wouldn't be transsexual. It depends on your outlook of sex and how you define it.

[TheHistoryStudent]

I'd say you look like a younger guy - maybe ever so slightly feminine looking (and I can't stress that enough) - if I passed you in the street I'd certainly say you were a man though . I'd certainly be extremely surprised if you told me you were a FTM Transsexual - I guess that answers your question.

[ed-]

(Original post by Beady)
There's predjudice towards people because of the colour of their skin, so is being black/asian or whatever controversial?



I'm sure we could both argue forever on this in particular but for now lets just accept some people are gay, some are straight and some are trans.



On gay pride marches, to me at least I see it more as saying that there is nothing wrong with being LGBT and that people should not behave with prejudice towards others. All over the world people get persecuted for being LGBT and I see gay pride marches as almost saying "screw what they think of you, embrace who you are."

And I see your a conservative, sometimes sterotypes just play themselves out.

Well your second point speaks for itself as regards to the controversial part...
It sounds like you're starting to think I myself am against gay and trans people. This isn't the case. I just don't think there's a need for it to be advertised - 1st, because this is a forum where it doesn't matter what you are and 2nd because it provokes a sensative issue.
It's like standing up and saying, "society accepts me, I dare you to say something" (same goes for gay pride).

Again, I'm not against it, people can be what they want. It's just when people seem to like drawing attention to it and standing out, then claiming that it's an issue because people notice, and discriminate.

Acting upon prejudice (a preconceived view) is discrimination.

[MyJunkIsYou]

(Original post by NightFire411)
I am FTM transgender [female to male]

I was wondering how well I pass...I get very self conscious out in public sometimes.

http://i41.tinypic.com/htahl5.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/f39ysw.jpg

I think you pass pretty well, the eyebrows in particular are very masculine. I think the average person would be totally unaware. I can imagine sometimes a few may mistake you for a very butch lesbian and perhaps lgbt* people who are more educated about trans*folk may be more aware but on the whole I think you pass just fine. You look great actually

[Beady]

(Original post by ed-)
It sounds like you're starting to think I myself am against gay and trans people. This isn't the case. I just don't think there's a need for it to be advertised - 1st, because this is a forum where it doesn't matter what you are and 2nd because it provokes a sensative issue.
It's like standing up and saying, "society accepts me, I dare you to say something" (same goes for gay pride).

In all fairness OP started this thread to ask whether he passed as male. It wasn't "Im trans, have you got a problem with it?"

(Original post by ed-)
Again, I'm not against it, people can be what they want. It's just when people seem to like drawing attention to it and standing out, then claiming that it's an issue because people notice, and discriminate.

That could be related to almost anything, and I agree with you on that point. But nowhere in this thread have I seen anyone do that.

[Tortious]

(Original post by kerily)
Just looked through my profile, and dear Lord, I am so jealous right now You pass substantially better than I do. Not that that's hard

I'm tempted to post photos to see what people think, but I'm conscious that they'd probably be quite mean (this is TSR, after all) and I'm also conscious that I look androgynous at best.

I saw your photo elsewhere (and didn't realise you were blonde! ).

I think you've got a good body shape, but have you considered cutting your hair a bit shorter? That could help to make you look more masculine, since there seems to be a trend towards pixie cuts and more "feminine" takes on male hairstyles.

The other thing that occurred to me (which is difficult to see from the photo) is that you may want to try having it cut to fit the shape of your head. It's quite hard to describe what I mean, but most guys' hair is short at the back, so their heads look round. Yours seems to stick out a bit like Sasuke from Naruto - if you wanted to keep some of the length, you could opt for having it longer on the top (like a fauxhawk-style cut, although without the obligation to style it ).

Sasuke

I suspect that it's just the camera angle making it hard for me to see things, but I figured I'd give you my thoughts anyway. You're definitely androgynous, but the fact that you've got a flat chest (coupled with your body language, which I can't assess from here! ) would probably lead me to think you're a guy.

[kerily]

(Original post by Tortious)
I saw your photo elsewhere (and didn't realise you were blonde! ).

I think you've got a good body shape, but have you considered cutting your hair a bit shorter? That could help to make you look more masculine, since there seems to be a trend towards pixie cuts and more "feminine" takes on male hairstyles.

The other thing that occurred to me (which is difficult to see from the photo) is that you may want to try having it cut to fit the shape of your head. It's quite hard to describe what I mean, but most guys' hair is short at the back, so their heads look round. Yours seems to stick out a bit like Sasuke from Naruto - if you wanted to keep some of the length, you could opt for having it longer on the top (like a fauxhawk-style cut, although without the obligation to style it ).

Sasuke

I suspect that it's just the camera angle making it hard for me to see things, but I figured I'd give you my thoughts anyway. You're definitely androgynous, but the fact that you've got a flat chest (coupled with your body language, which I can't assess from here! ) would probably lead me to think you're a guy.

I'm not naturally blond It's dyed green at the moment anyway.

I would LOVE a haircut. Sadly, I have precisely no money, so I have to wait until I next get offered a free one. This last happened in late October, hence why it's getting overgrown as **** I know you can get £10 haircuts, but... the last free haircut I got would have been worth £60 had I paid, and I'd rather get a really good cut for free than pay for a ****ty one.

My head is also a funny shape It's massively disproportionate for my body, for one. I see what you mean, although my hair does a few things given on whether I've actually combed it or not. If we want a more recent photo:

Spoiler:

Show

It doesn't stick out as much at the back these days. It badly, badly needs trimming, but that's a function of lack of money for a haircut, again

But why thankyou! And the chest works wonders My body language is very autistic and awkward - I don't have a better description sadly, but I've been told by a variety of people that I sort of walk funny. Never mind I'm mastering the art of occupying lots of physical space at the moment (men seem to stretch out/sit with legs open/etc far more often) so hopefully that will help.

I am aware that I look more androgynous than male (feminine face shape, I believe, although to be honest 'completely spherical' isn't necessarily gendered ) but hopefully this will change when I'm on testosterone, for one

[Tortious]

(Original post by kerily)
I'm not naturally blond It's dyed green at the moment anyway.

I would LOVE a haircut. Sadly, I have precisely no money, so I have to wait until I next get offered a free one. This last happened in late October, hence why it's getting overgrown as **** I know you can get £10 haircuts, but... the last free haircut I got would have been worth £60 had I paid, and I'd rather get a really good cut for free than pay for a ****ty one.

My head is also a funny shape It's massively disproportionate for my body, for one. I see what you mean, although my hair does a few things given on whether I've actually combed it or not. If we want a more recent photo:

Spoiler:

Show

It doesn't stick out as much at the back these days. It badly, badly needs trimming, but that's a function of lack of money for a haircut, again

Ah, fair enough. If it wasn't clear from my earlier post, the length/style isn't a big deal; I just thought I'd offer suggestions. As you say, better to get a nice free haircut than to be stuck with one you don't like.

But why thankyou! And the chest works wonders My body language is very autistic and awkward - I don't have a better description sadly, but I've been told by a variety of people that I sort of walk funny. Never mind I'm mastering the art of occupying lots of physical space at the moment (men seem to stretch out/sit with legs open/etc far more often) so hopefully that will help.

Mmmm. The way I've heard another transguy describe it in terms of getting your "centre" right when walking is "women walk from their hips, whereas men walk from their dicks" (). I don't know whether or not you pack (nor is it any of my business!), but it could be something to consider whilst you're trying to perfect your walk.

I am aware that I look more androgynous than male (feminine face shape, I believe, although to be honest 'completely spherical' isn't necessarily gendered ) but hopefully this will change when I'm on testosterone, for one

Fingers crossed for you.

[kerily]

(Original post by Tortious)
Ah, fair enough. If it wasn't clear from my earlier post, the length/style isn't a big deal; I just thought I'd offer suggestions. As you say, better to get a nice free haircut than to be stuck with one you don't like.

Oh, it wants to be shorter, I'm painfully aware I also want to avoid resembling Justin Bieber in any way, shape or form.

Mmmm. The way I've heard another transguy describe it in terms of getting your "centre" right when walking is "women walk from their hips, whereas men walk from their dicks" (). I don't know whether or not you pack (nor is it any of my business!), but it could be something to consider whilst you're trying to perfect your walk.

I'm not actually aware of how I walk in the first place, so I think I'll aim for being able to walk without falling over before I try to perfect a male walk, but the sentiment is there

Fingers crossed for you.

[mau5]

(Original post by NYU2012)
That's not how gender works.

It's more like... A fiat that has a ferrari engine and ferrari parts and ferrari handling and in every way IS a ferrari except one. It's not still a fiat; that wouldn't make any sense. That would imply that objects do not change over time or through change of parts. Not that I want to get into the philosophy of object continuation over time or through change of parts, but the statement you've made is highly absurd.

It's not still a fiat, it's a categorically new object.

I think it was the famous philosopher Simon Weston who said. 'If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a duck.'

[NYU2012]

(Original post by mau5)
I think it was the famous philosopher Simon Weston who said. 'If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a duck.'

Unfortunately, that's not how object continuation works. That's not even close to how object continuation works.

That's saying if it looks like X, sounds like X, and walks like X then it must be X. However, it's entirely possible that it's using a camouflage and is actually Y. By the logic you've used, if I have say... a 3D representation of you that looks like just like you, sounds just like you, walks just like you then it must BE you. However, that's clearly not true; Rather, it is merely a 3D representation of you and is not, in fact, anywhere close to being the token you.

The premises you've presented are very weak premises and would not be considered anywhere close to valid or sound in argumentation on object continuation. In object continuation you have to first argue for what type of time you're dealing with, or rather what your view on time is; then you must establish what constitutes an object; how objects can change; and if and when an object will no longer be the same object.

Metaphysics is vastly more complex than you seem to think.

If you would like to go on, I can give you a full argument as to why your initial post was wrong; however since you seem to lack much formal education in metaphysics as well as well as an incorrect notion that metaphysics is simple, I don't think you'll be able to follow such an argument very well.

Also, let's look at your two (very poor) arguments:

(1) A fiat that looks like a ferrari is still a fiat
(2) A duck is a duck if it looks like it, walks like it and sounds like it.

Well... The fiat doesn't look like a fiat, so therefore, according to your second argument it cannot be a fiat because it doesn't look like a fiat on the outside. Please make up your mind as to what constitutes object continuation; because so far you've made contradictory claims!

Looks like it's back to drawing board for you.

And this of course is only dealing with the problem philosophically; you'd face even more problems with sociological/psychological arguments.

FINALLY,
The argument you've presented in (2) doesn't even deal with object continuation! In fact, that's only an argument on object identification! So, again, you've completely missed with your presented arguments since they're horribly and fatally flawed as well as not even dealing with the right subject!

[Sovr'gnChancellor£]

How old are you?

If older than 15, may I respectfully and non-offensively suggest that you request your doctor to supply some more testosterone etc. I mean, even thought the face and chin shape is coming up nicely, your features still look youngish and betray a female sensibility. The body also needs some work too.

All in all, I would simply think you were a younger guy. But I have seen many guys who look a bit like you and I highly suspect that they were simply male not FTM or MTF.

Please do not take my above comments as insulting and intending to offend - I do not intend to perform such actions.

(P.S. Sorry for the statements to cover my back; you've just go to tread carefully when touching on such delicate issues.)

[Wave]

It's much easier for females to pass as male rather than vice versa. Cut your hair short, hide your figure under baggy clothes and bingo.

[roadkillzebra]

I think you pass as a boy, albeit a slightly feminine one but many women like that. Honestly if I saw you in the street I'd probably think "fittie" :3

[roadkillzebra]

(Original post by Betzella)
wait, so over time ur body changed or you want to change?
if when you were born and your body changed it's sex automatically then for example if you get your period then you are a girl, if you don't get your period or you produce sperm then you are a boy.

just looking at the images i could feel this little girl in you, but i know that you feel and look like a boy so i think it makes you a boy. congrats.

if you want to change yourself to become another sex because you feel like it, then i think do what you feel that you are but keep in mind that to love your self no matter what you are male or female and love your body.

(if i did say something that i might had upset you, then i am sorry. it's just that i don't know how it feels as a trans)

good luck! xx

Someone's sex and someone's gender are different things. Your sex is your biological makeup, your gender is if you feel male or female. It'd be how you felt if you woke up tomorrow in a male body, but still feeling female.

[Cool Cat]

(Original post by Wave)
It's much easier for females to pass as male rather than vice versa. Cut your hair short, hide your figure under baggy clothes and bingo.

Aint that easy unfortunately plus we're often read as butch lesbians rather than male

[roadkillzebra]

(Original post by Cool Cat)
Aint that easy unfortunately plus we're often read as butch lesbians rather than male

I'd say you look male, just with a feminine facial structure.