The Student Room Group

Scroll to see replies

Reply 80
oneeyedandgreen
They may own the pub/club but if they allow the public in, then its a public place.


No, it remains private property. Public space is a service or property run or funded by the state.
Reply 81
Elipsis
What about people who need to go to work, perhaps they don't want to unwillingly smoke several fags a night?


Forced to work in bar are they? Any employee can ask about a smoking policy and their working conditions prior to accepting employment. Its like signing up to be a fireman and then complaining that the fire service expect you to put out fires. Im sure Mr. Blair will outlaw fire soon, so we can all have the right to be firemen.
I hope they ban it at Railway stations - I hate it when I've had to walk to town just to sit down for ten minutes before a train comes and a person to sit next to me and light up! I am sensitive to smoke so I have have to move and stand up as the chairs are all bunched togther, every week!!! And everyone at Orchestra thinks I smoke becuase I always stink of it :frown:
Reply 83
blissy
One of the main points is that landlords wouldn't have wanted to say no to smokers because they would lose business.

I thought everyone wanted non-smoking bars, yet here you are telling us that smoking bars are more profitable.


Now everyone will be in the same boat and it is better for everyone's healthy and wellbeing.

ie. we(the state) know best, now do as we say.


Unfortunately, without proper provision for non smoking sections (proper air conditioning, people actually adhering to the rules) laws have to be introduced. If the landlords had catered adequately for all customers then this wouldn't have happened!


What do the words open market and capitalism mean to you? I prefer to live in market-driven societies where private businesses are allowed to offer services to meet demand, not in one where the government dictates who most provide what.
Reply 84
furzeplatt
I hope they ban it at Railway stations - I hate it when I've had to walk to town just to sit down for ten minutes before a train comes and a person to sit next to me and light up!


That depends who owns the railway station.
Reply 85
Vienna
Forced to work in bar are they? Any employee can ask about a smoking policy and their working conditions prior to accepting employment. Its like signing up to be a fireman and then complaining that the fire service expect you to put out fires. Im sure Mr. Blair will outlaw fire soon, so we can all have the right to be firemen.


If the government could stop fires then im fairly sure they would, why push people into fires?

People don't have to work there your right, but thats thousands upon thousands of jobs. Perhaps the people would prefer not to put up with the smoke but don't have much choice if they want to make a living. Alot of people don't want to walk into a smoke filled bar either, it doesn't belong to smokers and smokers are having an effect on other people so the government has decided to stop them, as they sure as hell havn't taken it upon themselves to stop.
"What do the words open market and capitalism mean to you? I prefer to live in market-driven societies where private businesses are allowed to offer services to meet demand, not in one where the government dictates who most provide what."

So sweatshops are ok by you then?
Reply 87
mipmapped
"What do the words open market and capitalism mean to you? I prefer to live in market-driven societies where private businesses are allowed to offer services to meet demand, not in one where the government dictates who most provide what."

So sweatshops are ok by you then?


Can you elaborate?
Reply 88
Elipsis
If the government could stop fires then im fairly sure they would, why push people into fires?

People don't have to work there your right, but thats thousands upon thousands of jobs. Perhaps the people would prefer not to put up with the smoke but don't have much choice if they want to make a living.

I sympathise. They have to weigh up that decision.


Alot of people don't want to walk into a smoke filled bar either, it doesn't belong to smokers and smokers are having an effect on other people

Both true. I'd rather not walk into a smoke filled bar, neither do you.


so the government has decided to stop them, as they sure as hell havn't taken it upon themselves to stop.

And here is where our opinions diverge.

You have the right to breathe clean air on public transport, in a museum or a library, and I'm entirely for a ban where the actions of others encroach on that right. Now, unlike a library which is a public space, you dont have any right of entry into a bar or club. Thats someone elses property, and that person, namely the landlord, runs a business and offers his services or goods for a profit. He may charge an entrance fee or he may let you enter on his terms. An open market works because the landlord will change those terms according to demand. Each landlord makes his or her decision and bares the financial consequences. For that reason, they react far more efficiently in supplying what the public request.

I believe that this individual, private owner should be allowed to decide what happens on his property, just as you may decide whether you smoke in your own home. Im sure your smart. Smart enough to know which bars will have smoke and which wont. If you decide that you dont like smokey bars, go to a non-smoking bar. Dont remove my right and the landlords right to decide whats best for us, because you cant take personal responsibility for your own decision making.

If you still find a state intervention is justified, you must also recognise the individual liberty you are sacrificing.
The market demands cheap clothing.
Big Business supplies said clothing, albeit in an ethically questionable manner.
The market is satisfied.

And you are too.
Reply 90
mipmapped
The market demands cheap clothing.
Big Business supplies said clothing, albeit in an ethically questionable manner.
The market is satisfied.

And you are too.


Big Business?
Ethically questionable?

Yes, if I demand cheap clothing.
Reply 91
I think that it's a complete and utter pain in the arse. There is nothing better than a cuban cigar.
Reply 92
Vienna
If you decide that you dont like smokey bars, go to a non-smoking bar.

Ha!
Vienna, do you think that if the drug tobacco was introduced today it would be legal? Seeing as various studies have shown that it's more harmful than cannabis I expect it wouldn't be. The government surely has the right to ban substances which it believes to be harmful to its population, does it not? If a privately owned pub decided to allow its users to smoke pot, would you support such a move?
blissy
Ha!

Quite. It's virtually impossible to do so. Why should people be put out to allow smokers (who cost the NHS vast sums annually) to pollute their - and everyone elses - lungs?
Reply 95
blissy
Ha!


You prefer the government to make the choice for you?
Reply 96
Vienna
Because you are incapable of making a rational decision regarding your health?
When someone comes and sits next to me in bar,pub,bench or anywhere and smokes, should I move?
Reply 97
englishstudent
Vienna, do you think that if the drug tobacco was introduced today it would be legal? Seeing as various studies have shown that it's more harmful than cannabis I expect it wouldn't be.

You reject the effects of THC? and the greater amount of carcinogenic tar material?


The government surely has the right to ban substances which it believes to be harmful to its population, does it not?

It doesnt have rights, we give it the power to do so. To follow this argument is fine, but then you would also support outlawing smoking entirely, as other drug abuse is. Thats not what this ban is about.


If a privately owned pub decided to allow its users to smoke pot, would you support such a move?

I dont smoke pot, so I wouldnt go to that pub if I felt the discomfort was so great.
Reply 98
Vienna
If you decide that you dont like smokey bars, go to a non-smoking bar.


If you decide you don't like the smoking ban, don't go to a bar or club, or don't smoke in it. Your choice.
Vienna
Big Business?
Ethically questionable?

Yes, if I demand cheap clothing.


Free markets are not inherantly bad. Infact they are very good. They just cease to function with no government input. The injection of a small amount of politics into freemarkets corrupts them. The only way of correcting this is adding further politics in the form of regulation.

This is a topic for another thread.

If people want less government regulation, vote for a party that will do just that. Unfortunately, we live in a democracy. This 'nanny state' is an elected one, and as such is there by popular demand. Again, live with it.