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    I had a quick flick through this and chuckled. It only makes me happier to have left Islam.
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    (Original post by Amiro123)
    Because they're following the way of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and he used to do whip himself when mourning over the dea...oh wait...no he didn't!
    First of don't make fun of him, and thats my point, he is meant to be the PERFECT MODEL IN WHICH EVERYTHING HE DOES YOU DO...HE DIDN'T BEAT HIMSELF UP LIKE THAT AND GOD DOESN'T ALLOW YOU TO HURT YOURSELF AS IT IS A SIN SO WHY WOULD YOU BEAT YOURSELF..IT'S DISGUSTING AND PSYCHOLOGICALLY ITS VERY BAD FOR YOU, TO PHYSICALLY HARM YOURSELF AND PROMOTING SUCH A THING TO YOUR CHILDREN...WOW I CANT BELIEVE PEOPLE SOMETIMES..THE THINGS THEY COME OUT WITH....I GUESS THEY'VE FORGOTTEN THE TRUE WAYS IN WHICH THE PROPHETS FOLLOWED EVEN WITH JESUS, WHAT HAS THE WORLD COME TO..
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    (Original post by scoutzawwar)
    Do you really expect me to have a different view?

    My answer is NO as well.
    Great! That wasn't too hard now was it?

    Inshallah, we'll just wait a day or two for the other Shias to answer this question and then we'll move on to the next question.

    I think this will be my last post today because I'm now going to bed, inshallah
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    (Original post by lilly_)
    I thought your not allowed to hurt yourself, thats why smoking, drinking and suicide is a sin...then why do they hurt themselves over someone else
    Exactly, i thought Shia's would understand the contradiction. How can you put someone else in the same place as Prophet Mohammed PBUH? It's just ridiculous.
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    (Original post by lilly_)
    First of don't make fun of him, and thats my point, he is meant to be the PERFECT MODEL IN WHICH EVERYTHING HE DOES YOU DO...HE DIDN'T BEAT HIMSELF UP LIKE THAT AND GOD DOESN'T ALLOW YOU TO HURT YOURSELF AS IT IS A SIN SO WHY WOULD YOU BEAT YOURSELF..IT'S DISGUSTING AND PSYCHOLOGICALLY ITS VERY BAD FOR YOU, TO PHYSICALLY HARM YOURSELF AND PROMOTING SUCH A THING TO YOUR CHILDREN...WOW I CANT BELIEVE PEOPLE SOMETIMES..THE THINGS THEY COME OUT WITH....I GUESS THEY'VE FORGOTTEN THE TRUE WAYS IN WHICH THE PROPHETS FOLLOWED EVEN WITH JESUS, WHAT HAS THE WORLD COME TO..
    Ermm, i'm sure that person is saying that the prophet DIDN'T beat himself up...
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    (Original post by JongKey)
    Exactly, i thought Shia's would understand the contradiction. How can you put someone else in the same place as Prophet Mohammed PBUH? It's just ridiculous.
    I just don't understand it....it's like WOW....:eek: MORE LIKE "HOW DARE YOU COMPARE SOMEONE ELSE TO HIM".....AND TO REMEMBER HIM ALL OF THE TIMES INSTEAD OF GOD....sometimes I feel like so many people just follow the religion because of their family and that they don't want anyone telling them their wrong, for their own ego. I mean do they really love god? remember him for what he has provided you daily? I don't understand shias
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    (Original post by JongKey)
    Ermm, i'm sure that person is saying that the prophet DIDN'T beat himself up...
    I know...
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    (Original post by lilly_)
    Dude your meant to love ALLAH above everyone else, and then prophet mohammad(saw) and no on is equal to him, I mean are you trying to justify yourself for beating yourself over a religious leader? suicide or any type of hurting yourself is forbidden, its a sin, as your trying to kill/hurt yourself as though your trying to say to god that your not happy that your here and your not happy with what hes given you. You have no right to take anyones life including yourself. You belong to god. There were so many religious people who died fighting for the cause of allah, are you going to start beating yourself about that. To love someone, find pray for them, prayer is more effective than beating yourself about it. :confused: seriously....to compare him to the perfect prophet mohammad(saw) I can't even believe you just did that, wow .....this is just so hard to believe that people have become like that. Its like your worshipping him rather than remembering god and who the messenger really was>>>>prophet mohammad(saw) NOT Imam Hussain(AS) you could instead pray for him not remember him like crazy, I mean its prophet mohammad(saw) who you should truly think about as he is described as the PERFECT MODEL and god is the ONLY ONE WE SHOULD LOVE THE MOST AND REMEMBER THE MOST AND THANK HIM FOR SENDING US THIS RELIGION THE MOST...it becomes like idol worship which is WRONG....dude their a wife of a man who they truly love, some people may do that without realising and its wrong, but its forgiven as their in a state of shock. So beating yourself...wow you people have gone that low in life that you think allah will allow beating of the face ...seriously dude..what world you living in?
    Salam,

    Did you fully and carefully read my post? It goes without saying that we love Allah(SWT) above all else, and then The prophet(PBUH+HF), all schools of thought are in agreement of this, so it does not need to be mentioned. What does need to mentioned is our love for The Ahlul Bayt(AS) as the next best after The Prophet(PBUH+HF), which is disputed between the different schools of thought.

    Read the sources, it's all there in Sunni books, and if you disagree with it then that is up to you, and you can voice your opinion in a respectable manner.
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    (Original post by Amiro123)
    No worries bro, I have done a lot of "learning" and "understanding" about your beliefs.

    I can assure you, all we want now is a one word answer. That will suffice.

    If you are struggling with how exactly to go about doing that, scroll up to the top of the page and you will see that I kindly included directions on how to answer in that post
    Before learning about Shia beliefs, from questionable sources no doubt, you should first learn about your own beliefs and the innovations introduced by abu bakr, umar and uthman, as well as the hadiths fabricated by abu hurraira.
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    (Original post by JongKey)
    Could you tell me why Shia's beat themselves up? It clearly states that you're not to cause physical harm to yourself, then why do Shia's disregard this and beat themselves up? I've never really understood this.
    Read my long post, it explains it all, giving sources from the Qur'an, hadith etc.
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    (Original post by JongKey)
    .

    (Original post by lilly_)
    .
    http://www.answering-ansar.org/answe...i/en/chap9.php

    Check the post on the previous page, someone has covered the topic in greater detail.
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    (Original post by maljebo)
    Salam,

    Did you fully and carefully read my post? It goes without saying that we love Allah(SWT) above all else, and then The prophet(PBUH+HF), all schools of thought are in agreement of this, so it does not need to be mentioned. What does need to mentioned is our love for The Ahlul Bayt(AS) as the next best after The Prophet(PBUH+HF), which is disputed between the different schools of thought.

    Read the sources, it's all there in Sunni books, and if you disagree with it then that is up to you, and you can voice your opinion in a respectable manner.
    Sorry but I dont think i'm going to start idol worshipping a dead man even though I respect him for all his bravery and pray that he is in heaven but I have no interest in loving him after the prophet mohammad(saw), and you clearly compared him to the great prophet, clearly shows your love for the holy prophet(saw). :rolleyes:

    Prophet mohammad(saw) was a perfect model for us and god told us to follow what he did, and he NEVER BEAT HIMSELF over someones elses death..so I aint beating myself over that, god created me and he created my mind and brain, he knows better than any doctor and psychologist that beating and harming yourself is VERY DANGEROUS for your health and mental health...its disgusting how people can promote such a behaviour. Thats why god has forbidden smoking, drinking suicide and any type of harm yo yourself as a sin. Thats the one thing that keeps me going when i'm down, that when I feel very low and feel like taking lots of pills I know that I shouldn't hurt myself because I remember god and I remember that its wrong and I know that I dont want to lose his love. So please use your common sense and I beg you AND I HOPE THAT YOU DONT PROMOTE SUCH A BEHAVIOUR IN YOUR FUTURE GENERATION...GOSH .....:confused:
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    All the tactics the bigots use against Islam is general, they got from some sunnis who would spread lies about what the shias believe . The most stupid of which is shias have a different quran or that they believe in more than one god .


    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    When your uncle speaks to the company chairman, he tells the chairman something he didn't already know. Perhaps the chairman didn't know who you were - so the uncle talks about you to inform him that you are looking for a job. Perhaps the chairman doesn't know whether you'd make a good worker, so the uncle tells him how hard-working and dedicated you are. And this might give the chairman enough information that he wants to give you an interview.

    But why do the Ahlul-Bayt need to "big you up''? What could they possibly say to God about you that he didn't know already?
    (Original post by High VOLTAGE)
    Bro, intercession, really? why do you need a middle man? when you are able to ask Allah directly in your dua for help
    Intercession is actually an important principle in Islam.
    Have your parents never told that when ever you have a wish or something to ask old people or holy men to pray on your behalf ? Surely you accept that a practising religious person is closer to god than someone who is not as religious ?
    At the time of prophet people would come to the prophet and ask the prophet to pray on their behalf . So this is the Principle that shias believe . Their has been abit of a shift towards a more puritan version of Islam amongst some sunnis which rejects intercession and says the prophet was an ordinary man...I guess its up to you what you believe . But there are plenty of Sunnis which still believe in Intercession such as Dr Qadri


    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    I've never really understood this. I mean okay, you believe that Ali and some others were some kind of divinely appointed leaders. But today they're all dead. So what does it matter now?



    Why?
    If God doesn't want to answer your prayer, are the Ahlul-Bayt somehow going to convince him to change his mind?
    And if God does want to answer your prayer - well then what do you need intercession for?
    It matters know, because history is still disputed thats why . Depending of which version of history you believe it influences how you interpret different things and which hadiths you accept . Like whether or not after the Death of the Prophet the Caliphs had a right to imprison Ali and take the land of Fadak away from the Daughter of the Prophet.

    Islam places alot of emphasis on the special place of the Ahlul-Bayt its just Sunnis have a different definition of who is in the Ahlul Bayt .

    You(generic) may have committed a sin , which means god is ignoring you prayers
    but if sinless person interceded on your behalf, his prayers may reach god and have a better chance of being accepted .

    Such as the story of Angel Firtus, who winged where taken away by god as punishment, then When the Angel Visited Hussain ibn Ali . Allah forgave Angel Firtus and he got his wings back

    http://ashraf786.proboards.com/index...y&thread=19450
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    I think someone should clear up the terms and conditions of 'tatbeer' for the sunni muslims (stopping referring to it as 'self harming'- not the same concept)
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    (Original post by lilly_)
    Sorry but I dont think i'm going to start idol worshipping a dead man even though I respect him for all his bravery and pray that he is in heaven but I have no interest in loving him after the prophet mohammad(saw), and you clearly compared him to the great prophet, clearly shows your love for the holy prophet(saw). :rolleyes:

    Prophet mohammad(saw) was a perfect model for us and god told us to follow what he did, and he NEVER BEAT HIMSELF over someones elses death..so I aint beating myself over that, god created me and he created my mind and brain, he knows better than any doctor and psychologist that beating and harming yourself is VERY DANGEROUS for your health and mental health...its disgusting how people can promote such a behaviour. Thats why god has forbidden smoking, drinking suicide and any type of harm yo yourself as a sin. Thats the one thing that keeps me going when i'm down, that when I feel very low and feel like taking lots of pills I know that I shouldn't hurt myself because I remember god and I remember that its wrong and I know that I dont want to lose his love. So please use your common sense and I beg you AND I HOPE THAT YOU DONT PROMOTE SUCH A BEHAVIOUR IN YOUR FUTURE GENERATION...GOSH .....:confused:
    Why don't you read my post?
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    (Original post by maljebo)
    Read my long post, it explains it all, giving sources from the Qur'an, hadith etc.
    I'll read it after my exam tomorrow - but surely no amount of 'sources' could go against the fact that it's haram to cause harm to yourself. I'm sure the Quran sources are all different interpretations.
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    (Original post by lilly_)
    Sorry but I dont think i'm going to start idol worshipping a dead man even though I respect him for all his bravery and pray that he is in heaven but I have no interest in loving him after the prophet mohammad(saw), and you clearly compared him to the great prophet, clearly shows your love for the holy prophet(saw). :rolleyes:

    Prophet mohammad(saw) was a perfect model for us and god told us to follow what he did, and he NEVER BEAT HIMSELF over someones elses death..so I aint beating myself over that, god created me and he created my mind and brain, he knows better than any doctor and psychologist that beating and harming yourself is VERY DANGEROUS for your health and mental health...its disgusting how people can promote such a behaviour. Thats why god has forbidden smoking, drinking suicide and any type of harm yo yourself as a sin. Thats the one thing that keeps me going when i'm down, that when I feel very low and feel like taking lots of pills I know that I shouldn't hurt myself because I remember god and I remember that its wrong and I know that I dont want to lose his love. So please use your common sense and I beg you AND I HOPE THAT YOU DONT PROMOTE SUCH A BEHAVIOUR IN YOUR FUTURE GENERATION...GOSH .....:confused:
    Idol worshipping a dead man? :facepalm2:
    Clearly there is no use in putting points across to you, you are extremely biased.
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    (Original post by maljebo)
    Why don't you read my post?
    I have read all of it...lool seriously dude....get a life and pray to god to help you ....if god made us to beat ourselfs up in times of distress and help..I dont know what type of god you believe in then. Because if god has clearly stated that suicide and hurting yourself is a sin..its a sin and thats it..stop trying to twist things around...I aint going to start believing what you say instead of god and the practices of the holy prophet (saw) as he never did...and I will never ever .....have a nice day..more like night...
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    (Original post by scoutzawwar)
    Idol worshipping a dead man? :facepalm2:
    Clearly there is no use in putting points across to you, you are extremely biased.
    :rolleyes: lool....you clearly have not grasped reality yet....don't you realise what you are doing.?
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    (Original post by lilly_)
    Sorry but I dont think i'm going to start idol worshipping a dead man even though I respect him for all his bravery and pray that he is in heaven but I have no interest in loving him after the prophet mohammad(saw), and you clearly compared him to the great prophet, clearly shows your love for the holy prophet(saw). :rolleyes:

    Prophet mohammad(saw) was a perfect model for us and god told us to follow what he did, and he NEVER BEAT HIMSELF over someones elses death..so I aint beating myself over that, god created me and he created my mind and brain, he knows better than any doctor and psychologist that beating and harming yourself is VERY DANGEROUS for your health and mental health...its disgusting how people can promote such a behaviour. Thats why god has forbidden smoking, drinking suicide and any type of harm yo yourself as a sin. Thats the one thing that keeps me going when i'm down, that when I feel very low and feel like taking lots of pills I know that I shouldn't hurt myself because I remember god and I remember that its wrong and I know that I dont want to lose his love. So please use your common sense and I beg you AND I HOPE THAT YOU DONT PROMOTE SUCH A BEHAVIOUR IN YOUR FUTURE GENERATION...GOSH .....:confused:
    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!!! You tell them sister!

    Pos rep from me!

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Updated: March 31, 2012
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