[Aphotic Cosmos]

(Original post by JCC-MGS)
Honestly I sort of agree, I'm an atheist but I still see myself as kind of religious in a sense, I love the power of religion and the community of it, I've read all kinds of different scriptures and taken something from all of them. I don't like how cold and individualistic atheism can be.

See, in my experience, atheism and the attached philosophy of humanism is the acceptance of other human beings for who and what they are - no more and no less. That is a very warm and embracing philosophy, more so than any religion, most of which worship death (we can only be complete after we die and go to heaven) and fight endlessly both within and against each other. Knowing that I share this world with so many brilliant people is extremely comforting - humanity is a family, but we don't need a Father or a Son, we are just all brothers and sisters.

[Hogwartz]

(Original post by S-man10)
Refutation headline: Theism can't grasp logic and common sense

All the same really

Why did you delete that post with the image? Mods are like the capitalists.

(Original post by CJKay)
Give me an example of a newspaper article where it criticises Muslims specifically. And it has to mention just "Muslims", not a particular type of Muslim - it must generalise, entirely, like this article has done.

If i gave you examples, i'm afraid the pages would go all the way to 50. Where are you living? You naive individual!

(Original post by JCC-MGS)
Irish Catholicism, not particularly strongly but anyone who's had Irish Catholic parents knows they don't have to push hard to get in your head truthfully I take more influence from Jainism, Islam (especially Sufism), Buddhism, Hinduism, Rastafari and others than Christianity but it's all there in an odd little melting pot of moral lessons.

Sufism is very 'spiritual', is that why you like it? And rastafarian is very 'relaxing', a bit like the hippies from the 60's.

[JCC-MGS]

(Original post by Dubliner)
There's nothing cold and individualistic about atheism - it isn't an organisation or world view, it is possible to have a sense of community without the fact that belief in a book brings you together

One of the reasons I stopped being a Catholic was the fact that I find babies being born with "sin" an unpleasant and cold concept.

I did say how cold and individualistic atheism can be, not is. It's a blank slate and I chose to build upon that blank slate with ideas I took from religion. The notion that religion just represents agreement about a book is reductive beyond sense though.

[chickenonsteroids]

(Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
See, in my experience, atheism and the attached philosophy of humanism is the acceptance of other human beings for who and what they are - no more and no less. That is a very warm and embracing philosophy, more so than any religion, most of which worship death (we can only be complete after we die and go to heaven) and fight endlessly both within and against each other. Knowing that I share this world with so many brilliant people is extremely comforting - humanity is a family, but we don't need a Father or a Son, we are just all brothers and sisters.

Dammit you said what I wanted to say in a much better way

Spoiler:

Show

Internal rhyme

[Dubliner]

(Original post by JCC-MGS)
I did say how cold and individualistic atheism can be, not is. It's a blank slate and I chose to build upon that blank slate with ideas I took from religion. The notion that religion just represents agreement about a book is reductive beyond sense though.

But what is it, at least in the Abrahamic sense, beyond that?

Something like Islam is fairly prescriptive - if you die a non-muslim without embracing the shahadah then you go to hell?

I'm curious as to what you see in Islam or Christianity as a non-believer?

[JCC-MGS]

(Original post by Hogwartz)
Sufism is very 'spiritual', is that why you like it? And rastafarian is very 'relaxing', a bit like the hippies from the 60's.

Sufism often concerns itself directly with replacing the evil with the good in oneself, the idea of a tangible 'God' can be replaced with whatever you want, for me it's more like service towards all living things, which I pick up from religions like Rastafari with the concept of things like 'I and I', the oneness of all living people as God, everyone representing the love of Jah. It's difficult to retrace my steps through how I got to where I am but yeah, I find religion helpful in making myself a better person even if I don't believe in a higher power. Honestly I think that believing there is no higher power goes well together with many religious precepts in creating a mindset of everyone or everything being sacred

[JCC-MGS]

(Original post by Dubliner)
But what is it, at least in the Abrahamic sense, beyond that?

Something like Islam is fairly prescriptive - if you die a non-muslim without embracing the shahadah then you go to hell?

I'm curious as to what you see in Islam or Christianity as a non-believer?

Religion is a personal relationship between you and your moral convictions, and involves living a life which encourages you to pay heed to and worship the representation of your own morality which has been developed through your exposure to religious teaching. I see God as the embodiment of the teachings of the book which mentions him, and to worship God is to worship those precepts such as love, peace, faithfulness rather than just to worship the individual called God. The book and whether you agree or disagree with other people about it is largely irrelevant because it's your own interaction with those beliefs which defines your religion, having other people who believe the same as you do is just a nice bonus.

[Hogwartz]

(Original post by JCC-MGS)
Sufism often concerns itself directly with replacing the evil with the good in oneself, the idea of a tangible 'God' can be replaced with whatever you want, for me it's more like service towards all living things, which I pick up from religions like Rastafari with the concept of things like 'I and I', the oneness of all living people as God, everyone representing the love of Jah. It's difficult to retrace my steps through how I got to where I am but yeah, I find religion helpful in making myself a better person even if I don't believe in a higher power. Honestly I think that believing there is no higher power goes well together with many religious precepts in creating a mindset of everyone or everything being sacred

From your attitude, i would have thought you'd go for Bhudism. Why haven't you looked into that yet?

[SophiaKeuning]

(Original post by JOR2010)
It says that atheists cannot grasp the great mystery of religion, it's hardly saying that this is negative. And everybody is entitled to their own opinion, atheist or not! This article isn't suggesting religion is correct, nor is it suggest atheism is so.

Exactly.

[JCC-MGS]

(Original post by Hogwartz)
From your attitude, i would have thought you'd go for Bhudism. Why haven't you looked into that yet?

I have, I mentioned it briefly a couple of posts ago.

[Emmie3303]

I don't understand why it's necessary for atheists to grasp anything about religion. If someone is ignorant of certain elements of religion but they do not cause any pain or hold false views because of this then what is the problem? It's rather disconcerting to see that just because a person chooses not to believe in deities they are suddenly attributed with beliefs and limitations that they would never attribute to themselves.

It is a flaw for atheists that music, art and architecture inspired by religious awe are traditionally powerful.

Why should this be a flaw for atheists? Not believing in God does not mean that an atheist cannot appreciate architecture of a religious nature. I've visited many cathedrals and churches for pleasure and been in awe of the sheer size and atmospheric weight of the building, but I haven't suddenly felt like such an experience poses a challenge to atheism. It's undeniable that religion has shaped material culture in many ways but being an atheist does not exclude a person from appreciating the power of such culture. When I see this culture I see the results of absolute faith and pious endeavour but I also see artistry, design and creative passion. That does not cause me discomfort or pose a problem for me. Why should it?

[CJKay]

(Original post by Hogwartz)
Why did you delete that post with the image? Mods are like the capitalists.



If i gave you examples, i'm afraid the pages would go all the way to 50. Where are you living? You naive individual!



Sufism is very 'spiritual', is that why you like it? And rastafarian is very 'relaxing', a bit like the hippies from the 60's.

I only asked for one example. If you can't give me that, there's no way in hell I'm going to believe you can find 50.
I live in the South East, where middle-class racists are supposed to be rife. In reality, they're not.

[BeanofJelly]

I can't really grasp the mystery of why people believe religion...

Okay, maybe a bit harsh. Why do people believe in religion is actually quite an interesting question.

The article has a point about the community and sense of shared greater purpose in religion. I would say that's a massive part of its appeal.

[JollyGreenAtheist]

Several problems with that article.

a) It mistakes atheists for anti-theists.
b) It plays on the "You're not part of the club, therefore you cannot possibly hope to comprehend" fallacy.
c) It's stupid.

[Talexe]

(Original post by JCC-MGS)
Honestly I sort of agree, I'm an atheist but I still see myself as kind of religious in a sense, I love the power of religion and the community of it, I've read all kinds of different scriptures and taken something from all of them. I don't like how cold and individualistic atheism can be.

We absolutely do have things to gain from reading religious texts - they're well-crafted and often include profound ideas. If we could all read religious texts as works of ancient philosophy and literature, I'd have no problem with it; it's when we take one source to be absolutely sacred that difficulties emerge.

[Hogwartz]

(Original post by CJKay)
I only asked for one example. If you can't give me that, there's no way in hell I'm going to believe you can find 50.
I live in the South East, where middle-class racists are supposed to be rife. In reality, they're not.

Racist is bad in itself, forget being rife And being a middle class, just explains your naivity. You live in a fairy world my friend.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/sear...hPhrase=muslim

[CJKay]

(Original post by Hogwartz)
Racist is bad in itself, forget being rife And being a middle class, just explains your naivity. You live in a fairy world my friend.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/sear...hPhrase=muslim

I dated a "lower-class", Londoner who was the child of a single parent and a cheating father with an alcoholic and pothead brother for about a year and am still involved personally with her. Outside of London is not 'a fairy world'.

Also, are you aware you just linked to the Daily Mail? As if the Daily Mail should even be a legitimate newspaper?
Are you also aware that none of the articles actually seemed to be making any generalisations about or making remarks on Islam? Or were even the opinions of their respective writers?

I've got here:
Psychologists in the Prison Service will try to ‘cure’ extremist Muslim inmates of their political beliefs
Muslim woman banned from wearing a 'burkini' in a French swimming pool
Majority of Muslim Americans feel targeted by terror policies
Muslim cadets will be allowed to wear hijab
Muslim family kicked off U.S. flight after talking about where was safest to sit

Nowhere there do I see any generalisations, or even "Muslims", in those articles.

[Claudine]

(Original post by Clare~Bear)
I'm an atheist.

I understand religion.

I don't understand why so many people are gullible enough to follow them.

I'm an athiest too.

I too understand religon, but I don't see how it is logical or probable.

So I also don't understand why so many people are gullible enough to follow them.

[Hogwartz]

(Original post by CJKay)
I dated a "lower-class", Londoner who was the child of a single parent and a cheating father with an alcoholic and pothead brother for about a year and am still involved personally with her. Outside of London is not 'a fairy world'.

Also, are you aware you just linked to the Daily Mail? As if the Daily Mail should even be a legitimate newspaper?
Are you also aware that none of the articles actually seemed to be making any generalisations about or making remarks on Islam? Or were even the opinions of their respective writers?

I've got here:
Psychologists in the Prison Service will try to ‘cure’ extremist Muslim inmates of their political beliefs
Muslim woman banned from wearing a 'burkini' in a French swimming pool
Majority of Muslim Americans feel targeted by terror policies
Muslim cadets will be allowed to wear hijab
Muslim family kicked off U.S. flight after talking about where was safest to sit

Nowhere there do I see any generalisations, or even "Muslims", in those articles.

Why would you mention that? Is that what you saw her as 'lower class'? Probably the reason why you split up. However your statement is irrelevant as we are talking about muslims here.

Exactly, the point i'm trying to make. Media these days are mainly tabloids. And people still seem to believe it.
I can't believe you're saying the media doesn't target muslims, why am i even trying to prove it?!

LOL you're just too much, you just picked out ALL the good ones.

[NietzschanGuy]

Forgive me for being pedantic but wouldn't being able to 'grasp' or 'understand' a mystery kinda defeat the purpose of a mystery?