[Iso Herrk]

(Original post by Hopple)
I'm saying that the ref shouldn't have carded Richards because it wasn't deliberate - and he didn't. I was countering your assertion that it wasn't a foul because it was accidental by pointing out that you can commit fouls accidentally.



I don't see how that is relevant. It says deliberate leads to a penalty, but it doesn't say whether or not unintentional leads to a penalty. There's a reason that defenders keep their arms at their sides when squaring up to an opponent, it's because even accidental handballs warrant penalties/free kicks.




I never said it was deliberate. I'm saying even an accidental handball is a foul, as does the ref, and as does every player who keeps their arms down whenever there's a potential shot coming in.

But we don't know whether Phil Dowd thought it was deliberate or not, the fact that no yellow card was shown proves nothing. I'm saying Phil Dowd probably thought it was deliberate hand ball.

[Hopple]

(Original post by Iso Herrk)
But we don't know whether Phil Dowd thought it was deliberate or not, the fact that no yellow card was shown proves nothing. I'm saying Phil Dowd probably thought it was deliberate hand ball.

I guess we'll never know, and hence have to agree to disagree If the ref had booked Richards, I'd agree it was harsh. But it was a handball, and not deliberate (beyond having his arms out in the first place) so I think a penalty is fair.

[charlie9872]

(Original post by Hopple)

I never said it was deliberate. I'm saying even an accidental handball is a foul, as does the ref, and as does every player who keeps their arms down whenever there's a potential shot coming in.

You seem to be missing the point, for it to be a foul it HAS to be deliberate, if its accidental its not a foul, it was an error by the ref:

"A penalty kick is awarded if a defending team player deliberately handles the ball inside his own penalty area (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)."

[Hopple]

(Original post by charlie9872)
You seem to be missing the point, for it to be a foul it HAS to be deliberate, if its accidental its not a foul, it was an error by the ref:

"A penalty kick is awarded if a defending team player deliberately handles the ball inside his own penalty area (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)."

Are you saying that an accident can never be a foul? How many times have you seen a player go for the ball yet the other guy be too quick? Have a look at Bent's penalty last weekend against Wolves. That statement only refers to deliberate handballs, it does not say that accidental handballs should be left to occur else all defenders are going to spread their arms like pylons.

[Iso Herrk]

(Original post by Hopple)
Are you saying that an accident can never be a foul? How many times have you seen a player go for the ball yet the other guy be too quick? Have a look at Bent's penalty last weekend against Wolves.

The law refers to handling the ball only. I agree if you mistime a tackle and bring someone down, although you meant to get the ball, that should be a penalty as you've stopped/held up play. Handball isn't the same though, you could deliberately kick the ball at an opponents hand in the box and try and get a penalty, you can't make someone tackle you too late.

[charlie9872]

(Original post by Hopple)
Are you saying that an accident can never be a foul? How many times have you seen a player go for the ball yet the other guy be too quick? Have a look at Bent's penalty last weekend against Wolves. That statement only refers to deliberate handballs, it does not say that accidental handballs should be left to occur else all defenders are going to spread their arms like pylons.

No, I'm saying that if its accidental and its awarded its an error by the ref...

[Dekota-XS]

The ref had a homosexual tendency in that match I thought...

[Jim-ie]

(Original post by Hopple)
I guess we'll never know, and hence have to agree to disagree If the ref had booked Richards, I'd agree it was harsh. But it was a handball, and not deliberate (beyond having his arms out in the first place) so I think a penalty is fair.

If we are going to go by the laws of the game Adam did not play the ball against Dzeko in the pen box and nothing rewarded. Its impossible to make a block like Richards did without having your arms up, balance. There would be a penalty every match if we go by your standards.

Cheated. But still Liverpool worked hard so fair enough in that regard.

[HarveyCanis]

It's quite obvious he had no intention of handling the ball, but it was still a foul for the simple reasons his arms were outstretched. Any defender knows how stupid it is to hold their arms out in the penalty box, hence why they keep them down. Although the example in this match didn't mean anything, if the ball had been heading towards goal would you still say it was just an accidental handball that deserves no punishment?

[Leelad]

Brilliant performance Liverpool, yeah wasn't a penalty but no one can take that win away from Liverpool. So deserved.

[samir12]

(Original post by charlie9872)
No, I'm saying that if its accidental and its awarded its an error by the ref...

But what if the ball hit the arm directly, still an accident and surely would be a penalty? I don't think it was a penalty myself as it hit the leg first, but Liverpool did deserve the win.

[charlie9872]

(Original post by HarveyCanis)
It's quite obvious he had no intention of handling the ball, but it was still a foul for the simple reasons his arms were outstretched. Any defender knows how stupid it is to hold their arms out in the penalty box, hence why they keep them down. Although the example in this match didn't mean anything, if the ball had been heading towards goal would you still say it was just an accidental handball that deserves no punishment?

They weren't outstretched, try and balance whilst lunging for the ball like he did without having your arms out, you'll find its pretty hard.

[charlie9872]

(Original post by samir12)
But what if the ball hit the arm directly, still and accident and surely would be a penalty. I don't think it was a penalty myself as it hit the leg first, but Liverpool did deserve the win.

Going by the rule book, no, as its not deliberate. Again, its down to the referee's judgement.

[antonfigo]

lol you lads watchiing the el classico???

[milan5baros]

(Original post by Catilina)
If the game ends 1-1 it´s undeserved, the foul on Dzeko was a lot more obvious than Richard's handball.

are you a city fan then?

[Tommyjw]

Sounds like i missed a good game.

In a way glad that City have one less trophy they can win, even if that makes me sound like a dick.

Chances of a final upset? Or is it more likely than not just an obvious win for pool?

[Tom_Hagen]

(Original post by Dekota-XS)
Lets see LFC scoring a goal without needing a penalty shoot for a change...