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65-year-old Shoots Dead Two Teenage Muggers

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    (Original post by the bear)
    This is weird: at almost exactly the same location three years ago a "60 year old" man allegedly stabbed a youth and tried to steal his bike...

    http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=150644

    although it transpired that it was in fact the yoofs who were the assailants and the man was 48

    http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=118185336381
    It was the exact spot
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    (Original post by Besakt)
    Completely agree with you here. Showing the gun would have been a sufficient visual deterrent, there was no need to kill him.
    I disagree that showing them the gun would have done anything. If he had they would have run off. The old man had been punched in the face and kicked in the chest. I doubt he could have made them do anything unless he shot them. Now once they get away what happens? The are embellished in their crimes. "We're so tough that we don't fear guns blah blah blah" It is the "street cred" they crave!
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    (Original post by kmknier)
    I live in Lancaster PA USA. The incident this board is discussing happened about 30 miles from my home. I would like to state some of the facts of what happened.

    1. Only one attacker was killed. the other was shot and is expected to recover and will be charged with multiple felonies.

    2. These boys were 15 and 16 years old. All have prior police records.

    3. Earlier in the day the boy who was killed, Julius Johnson, had been visited by truant officers from the Reading school district, they had placed an electronic ankle monitor on him and ordered him to report to his parole officer at 4:00 PM with his parent/parents.

    4. These boys had attacked and robbed two other men in the hour before this attack.

    5. The attack itself consisted of punching the old man in the face to knock him off of his bike. He was then kicked in the chest by Johnson into a chain link fence. The second attacker rushed to join in the attack and it was at this time the man opened fire.

    6. It is illegal to fire warning shots in Pennsylvania. You are allowed to use deadly force if you attacked.

    7. The 65 year old man was licensed to carry a concealed weapon (that is legal in Pennsylvania and this incident shows the need for it). On this point I would like to point out an incident that occurred in your country last summer. Muslim merchants
    were killed when the attempted to defend their property with sticks and stones from rioters who used a car to run straight into them. These merchants would have been better served by a large caliber handgun. Your laws forbid them this defense.

    Some of the comments on this thread have lamented the loss of this young life. I ask this question: "Consider the future victims of the career thugs/criminals that have been spared the beatings, robbery, brain damage and death by Johnson's death?" I realize my comments may be offensive to many here but as I always say "there are no bleeding heart liberals laying on the ground being beaten to death by thugs".
    welcome to the board. sorry that your first posts are on this unpleasant topic.
    i read quite a few postings by bike riders on the Schuylkill Trail and it is only surprising that fatalities have not occurred before. the juvenile gangsters have only themselves to blame if they pick on the wrong target.

    :bear:
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    Killing a human being at no occasion deserves praise. The old man is not blameworthy because his killing the two teenage muggers is excused by his being attacked. But he hasn't done anything praiseworthy either. If he kneecapped them, sent them to the police and defended himself then he probably deserves it. If people get the assurance that we can defend ourselves by any temporarily available means without measuring up the consequences than irrationality would be justified.
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    (Original post by kmknier)
    I live in Lancaster PA USA. The incident this board is discussing happened about 30 miles from my home. I would like to state some of the facts of what happened.

    1. Only one attacker was killed. the other was shot and is expected to recover and will be charged with multiple felonies.

    2. These boys were 15 and 16 years old. All have prior police records.

    3. Earlier in the day the boy who was killed, Julius Johnson, had been visited by truant officers from the Reading school district, they had placed an electronic ankle monitor on him and ordered him to report to his parole officer at 4:00 PM with his parent/parents.

    4. These boys had attacked and robbed two other men in the hour before this attack.

    5. The attack itself consisted of punching the old man in the face to knock him off of his bike. He was then kicked in the chest by Johnson into a chain link fence. The second attacker rushed to join in the attack and it was at this time the man opened fire.

    6. It is illegal to fire warning shots in Pennsylvania. You are allowed to use deadly force if you attacked.

    7. The 65 year old man was licensed to carry a concealed weapon (that is legal in Pennsylvania and this incident shows the need for it). On this point I would like to point out an incident that occurred in your country last summer. Muslim merchants
    were killed when the attempted to defend their property with sticks and stones from rioters who used a car to run straight into them. These merchants would have been better served by a large caliber handgun. Your laws forbid them this defense.

    Some of the comments on this thread have lamented the loss of this young life. I ask this question: "Consider the future victims of the career thugs/criminals that have been spared the beatings, robbery, brain damage and death by Johnson's death?" I realize my comments may be offensive to many here but as I always say "there are no bleeding heart liberals laying on the ground being beaten to death by thugs".
    Thanks for this. Do you mind if I quote you in the OP?
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    (Original post by Einheri)
    Thanks for this. Do you mind if I quote you in the OP?
    Feel free to use my comments
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    (Original post by kmknier)
    Feel free to use my comments
    Thank you.
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    Is this some very elaborate troll or are people are actually agreeing with the OP?

    He killed someone who was barely a fraction of the way though his life, and nearly a second. Yet that is somehow OK because they tried to rob him? I would use this story as an advert against legality of fire arms.

    If this is OK, why is there not a double-death penalty for simple theft? Surely if this case is 'fine' then all youths who try and steal from people should be sentenced to death, without trial. I can't see any reasoning that differentiates that case from what I propose.

    "6. It is illegal to fire warning shots in Pennsylvania. You are allowed to use deadly force if you attacked."

    This is why we (the rest of the world) think you, as a nation, are stupid.
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    (Original post by CamH)

    "6. It is illegal to fire warning shots in Pennsylvania. You are allowed to use deadly force if you attacked."

    This is why we (the rest of the world) think you, as a nation, are stupid.
    Actually that makes perfect sense imagine he had sent a warning shot in a random direction which then hit some innocent bystander?

    As for knee capping them or hitting a limb as others have suggested that is harder said than done if you haven't had military training in the use of guns what if he had aimed at his leg and missed again run the risk of hitting a bystander even the police are told to aim for centre mass every time to make sure they don't miss and hit an innocent it could have given the muggers the opportunity to get the gun of him and shoot him or beat him to death aswell.

    The guy isn't a hero but he was well within his rights to defend himself for anyone to suggest that he should have taken a beating from these youths because they didn't deserve to die is ludicrous. Mugging or Assault isn't punishable by death no and if he had tied him against a street light and executed him then I would agree he was in the wrong but he didn't he did it to stop an attack that could have resulted in his death. These muggers choose to do this they knew there would have been risks and they ultimately paid the consequences as they say if you can't take the heat then get the **** out the kitchen.

    If I had a child in the future and they had mugged this man and been shot I would obviously be distraught and devastated but I would in no way blame the man for shooting them, I would blame my kid and myself for failing as a parent. These kids hit a 65 year old man in the chest while he was on his bike and stamped on his chest at his age that could very well have killed him this was no harmless mugging they are only victims of themselves and paid the price it's no one else’s fault and no I don't agree guns should be legal for protection but if I had a weapon nearby that I could use then I bloody well would use it.

    Life isn't as simple as you middle class, leftie students who have lived sheltered lives and have experienced **** all in real life seem to think it is have you ever been mugged or attacked I would bet you haven't you don't think straight when being attacked adrenaline takes over you are going on pure instinct you need to experience it to truly know what it's like.
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    (Original post by kmknier)
    I live in Lancaster PA USA. The incident this board is discussing happened about 30 miles from my home. I would like to state some of the facts of what happened.

    1. Only one attacker was killed. the other was shot and is expected to recover and will be charged with multiple felonies.

    2. These boys were 15 and 16 years old. All have prior police records.

    3. Earlier in the day the boy who was killed, Julius Johnson, had been visited by truant officers from the Reading school district, they had placed an electronic ankle monitor on him and ordered him to report to his parole officer at 4:00 PM with his parent/parents.

    4. These boys had attacked and robbed two other men in the hour before this attack.

    5. The attack itself consisted of punching the old man in the face to knock him off of his bike. He was then kicked in the chest by Johnson into a chain link fence. The second attacker rushed to join in the attack and it was at this time the man opened fire.

    6. It is illegal to fire warning shots in Pennsylvania. You are allowed to use deadly force if you attacked.

    7. The 65 year old man was licensed to carry a concealed weapon (that is legal in Pennsylvania and this incident shows the need for it). On this point I would like to point out an incident that occurred in your country last summer. Muslim merchants
    were killed when the attempted to defend their property with sticks and stones from rioters who used a car to run straight into them. These merchants would have been better served by a large caliber handgun. Your laws forbid them this defense.

    Some of the comments on this thread have lamented the loss of this young life. I ask this question: "Consider the future victims of the career thugs/criminals that have been spared the beatings, robbery, brain damage and death by Johnson's death?" I realize my comments may be offensive to many here but as I always say "there are no bleeding heart liberals laying on the ground being beaten to death by thugs".
    top notch
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    I hope if I ever accidentally knock someone off their bike, I don't get shot and killed.

    Obviously this wasn't accidental (and they continued to assault him after), but I could imagine a 65-year-old might make such a mistake after such an event.
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    here is an obituary from the local paper:

    http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/rea...&pid=155725201
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    I really hate when people say the people who initiate these things didn't deserve what they got after they commit the crime. The second you commit a crime your rights are forfeit, I do not agree with the guy's death but the man had a right to defend himself and used the most effective means for it. The teenager should not have attempted to rob someone else, that is the fact of the matter and for it he suffered an unfortunate fate.

    But comments at funerals and on the news etc.. when the familly states he was a good kid etc... is irritating. Why does everyone become a saint the second they die. "heavens got a new angel":mad: , pretty sure if you rob someone and believe in god your friend/ familly member is going to hell. Atleast makes me happier to be athiest and not have to worry about an afterlife filled with "angels" who would have mugged me in life.
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    (Original post by CamH)
    Is this some very elaborate troll or are people are actually agreeing with the OP?

    He killed someone who was barely a fraction of the way though his life, and nearly a second. Yet that is somehow OK because they tried to rob him? I would use this story as an advert against legality of fire arms.

    If this is OK, why is there not a double-death penalty for simple theft? Surely if this case is 'fine' then all youths who try and steal from people should be sentenced to death, without trial. I can't see any reasoning that differentiates that case from what I propose.

    "6. It is illegal to fire warning shots in Pennsylvania. You are allowed to use deadly force if you attacked."

    This is why we (the rest of the world) think you, as a nation, are stupid.
    i do not think that the USA is stupid. the firearms legislation in Pennsylvania was recently improved to allow the use of deadly force outside the home, luckily in time for the brave senior citizen to be protected.
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    (Original post by CamH)
    Is this some very elaborate troll or are people are actually agreeing with the OP?

    He killed someone who was barely a fraction of the way though his life, and nearly a second. Yet that is somehow OK because they tried to rob him? I would use this story as an advert against legality of fire arms.

    If this is OK, why is there not a double-death penalty for simple theft? Surely if this case is 'fine' then all youths who try and steal from people should be sentenced to death, without trial. I can't see any reasoning that differentiates that case from what I propose.

    "6. It is illegal to fire warning shots in Pennsylvania. You are allowed to use deadly force if you attacked."
    You did read the part where they tried to beat up an old man for money, and had done it twice already in the same day, and were on parole, and had an extensive criminal record already? His early death has probably stopped a lot of crime, probably saved an innocent person's life or two somewhere down the line as well.

    (Original post by CamH)
    This is why we (the rest of the world) think you, as a nation, are stupid.
    The opening post got 26 negs, 57 pos. 2/3 people agree with me.
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    (Original post by Einheri)
    as such he's getting a crossbow bolt in the chest and/or my machete in his neck.
    Ok you're a bit weird, its kinda like you enjoyed writing this...
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    (Original post by iSMark)
    Ok you're a bit weird, its kinda like you enjoyed writing this...
    Haha, okay.
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    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=1911706

    :bear:
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    (Original post by Einheri)
    The opening post got 26 negs, 57 pos. 2/3 people agree with me.
    Sorry to pick out your post again, but remember this is TSR. 2/3 of TSR members, this is very different to the population. This wasn't a dig at you and using those stats, it was a dig at the whole TSR population . How can I put it, the majority of people here are 'different' to the average population.
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    (Original post by iSMark)
    Sorry to pick out your post again, but remember this is TSR. 2/3 of TSR members, this is very different to the population. This wasn't a dig at you and using those stats, it was a dig at the whole TSR population . How can I put it, the majority of people here are 'different' to the average population.
    I'd say there are more hippies and far-left people on here than in real life.

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