[non]

(Original post by ThePants999)
Unions are fine. Strikes are fine. All we need is for companies to be allowed to fire striking employees. If the employees aren't going to hold up their end of the employment contract, no reason the employers should have to either.

This and all the employees are talking about the bad job Market, and are still complaining about things like low pay and there are plenty of people to take over the strikers job anyway.

[tulley11]

What a ridiculous poll.

[zippyRN]

(Original post by tulley11)
What a ridiculous ptroll.

edited for accuracy

[Classical Liberal]

Public sector - Yes - They are looters of the public finances. They just gang up on defenseless taxpayers.
Private sector - No - They face competition. If they demand too much they destroy themselves.

[Mr. Z]

(Original post by IRSP044)
You couldn't strip them of that power lol.

Why not? It's not difficult, just sack them when they refuse to work.

(Original post by lambert1)
Or you could do the smart thing and allow them to strike but never give into their demands. If unions see a government hasn't given into a single union demand in the last decade I highly doubt a strike will ever be considered again.

the strikes just get worse, ask a miner.

[IRSP044]

(Original post by Mr. Z)
Why not? It's not difficult, just sack them when they refuse to work.



the strikes just get worse, ask a miner.

Then they'd call a general strike.

[ForKicks]

Just realised that this poll only says there should be more, or all should be removed. The results are probably meaningless.

[Otkem]

Union leaders are the scourge of the Earth.

[prog2djent]

(Original post by Classical Liberal)
Public sector - Yes - They are looters of the public finances. They just gang up on defenseless taxpayers.
Private sector - No - They face competition. If they demand too much they destroy themselves.

I don't understand why the left think libertarians are completely anti-union. We back private unions 100% aslong as the state or taxpayer isn't involved, which it never is. It's public union we have issues over. Infact, I think most libertarians (well UK ones atleast) are more pro-union, cooperatives etc etc than most other people.

Edit: I think this poll is terrible, to general, we have the choices or getting rid of ALL unions or having more and more of them, OP should have added other options like "1. less unions, but still needs to be some. 2. The same amout of unions 3. More Private less public 4. More private more public 5. Less of Both"

[tulley11]

(Original post by zippyRN)
edited for accuracy

Did you spend hours trying to be amusing?

[chrisawhitmore]

(Original post by Guru Jason)
This. It would also set a record in unfair dismissals cases.

Not really, as strikes are a clear breach of contract, the same way that not turning up to work repeatedly can get you sacked. It would only be unfair dismissal if some strikers were not sacked. Also, in many cases less than 50% actually turn out on strike, and in those cases it might well be possible to replace them, particularly in high paid, low skill jobs like tube drivers.

[skunky x]

I think that the Unions are a really good idea, but they've gone past their use.

Initially, unions were about improving conditions which were downright dangerous and so that employees could be ill without losing their job. Which was great, it was needed at the time and it worked - women are now more equal than they've ever been, I can take a sick day and I know I'll get paid more than chicken feed.

However, using the BA strikes as an example, people are now striking over ridiculous things. BA went on strike because air stewardesses weren't getting 'concessionary travel' (Source - http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...ritish-airways). Now, in my opinion, getting a free plane trip is completely and utterly a perk of the job. Companies don't need to provide it (unlike they need to provide a safe working environment) and you should be really thankful if your company gives you such a perk.

I think the unions would do a lot better if they went to other countries and focussed on working conditions there, where there are REAL problems. I know that's no-where as simple as I make it sound, but in an ideal world, it would make more sense, rather than making sure stewardesses can fly to Magaluf on the cheap.

[CandyFlipper]

Um, they should be free to exist, but I'd like there to be less of them - where is my option ya bastard?

[al45ta1r]

The problems I have with unions:
-Since the unions really came to the fore in the middle of last century, employment law in this country has come on leaps and bounds; in the event of unfair dismissals, we have tribunals. No need for the rest of the company's employees to throw their toys out of the pram.
-Trade unions are bad for those who are less well off. They try to artificially increase wages without an increase in productivity, thereby increasing inflation and living costs. Then they insist in getting paid more without producing more, which increases inflation...
-They serve their members at the expense of the good of the rest of society. They are bad for the unemployed as they push up wages, deterring employers from employing new recruits who are not worth the money (just like the minimum wage).
-Their blatantly selfish and flawed outlook. Going on strike affects the customer too, and if the customer withdraws their support of your company you will ALL lose your jobs. It seems that many would rather see job losses than pay freezes.
-I detest that employers, particularly in the public sector, pay their staff to do union work. Fair enough if that's what you want to do but do it in your own time. And don't use the taxpayer's money to not do your job, and try and screw the taxpayer for even more money.
-Their politics annoys me to no end. There are simply too many union leaders who clearly dream of a communist society.
-Their hypocrisy. They complain about the well off, yet take money from their members (often in low paid employment) and use it to pay the high rungs of their leadership £100000+ salaries.
-Again, using members' money to buy the Labour party. Representing your members is one thing, but giving their money to a political party is just utterly disgusting. Would union members not be better keeping their money, they'd get paid more?

Ideologically, I don't believe in union labour as I believe that everyone should be paid what they, as an individual, are worth. People should be free to negotiate their own renumeration package based on how well they do their job. Why should 2 teachers who've been in the job 10 years get the same salary when one is very good at their job and the other is useless? Problem with many public sector unions is they are representing semi-skilled/professional jobs where people can have differing abilities and skills to bring to the job, yet they act as if their members are unskilled factory workers who would be easily replaceable by any man on the street and therefore, do the same work to the same quality.

Of course everyone's views are clouded by the militant unions like Unite, NUT, RMT etc and I'm sure there are some non-corrupt, slightly less greedy unions. However, I do think that unions need to be quashed, or at least have their powers reined in. Providing legal advice and support, yes. Liaising with management, yes. Bringing forward health and safety issues (such as asking for protective gear for factory staff), yes. Holding their employer to ransom, no. If you don't like your employer, leave. If they are as bad as you make out, nobody will want to work for them anyway.

[WelshBluebird]

The idea that we don't need unions anymore is laughable.
The reason we have such good working conditions and protections now is because of them!
Without them, you don't think the far right (who love business and hate anything that goes against it) would try to remove those things? Of course they would.
We have even seen it with the current government.
Workers need a united voice to be able to stand up for themselves.

[zippyRN]

(Original post by chrisawhitmore)
Not really, as strikes are a clear breach of contract, the same way that not turning up to work repeatedly can get you sacked. It would only be unfair dismissal if some strikers were not sacked. Also, in many cases less than 50% actually turn out on strike, and in those cases it might well be possible to replace them, particularly in high paid, low skill jobs like tube drivers.

a legally conducted strike is not a breach of contract, consequently your argument fails at that point.

Despite the laws protecting the rights of strikers and the restricting the powers of unions being limited, i don't think you find much support apart from in the loony right 'hire and fire at will' for the right to sack people taking part in legally conducted industrial action. In fact attempting to discipline or dismiss those taking part in industrial action short of strikes would render the employer wide open as the employer would then be admitting that the job cannot be done without ignoring policy.

[jesusandtequila]

People should have the freedom to associate into groups if they so wish - whether we should pay any attention to them is another matter entirely.

[member159703]

(Original post by geetar)
As much as I hate the RMT and their dickhead of a leader Bob Crowe, no. Unions - an organisation to protect the interests of workers - are important.

But theres a point where protecting the workers changes into being greedy at the expense of the rest of the nation, RMT being case in point.

[geetar]

(Original post by rorydaredking)
But theres a point where protecting the workers changes into being greedy at the expense of the rest of the nation, RMT being case in point.

Well...yes, that's what I said. I dislike the RMT.

[member159703]

(Original post by jesusandtequila)
People should have the freedom to associate into groups if they so wish - whether we should pay any attention to them is another matter entirely.

Exactly, with the tube drivers wanting not only extra pay (already agreed) but now just extra money to do the same job is utterly ridiculous. In a time with such high unemployment, the govt. should just say well **** off then, we will get some other person in to do your cushy 40k 4 days a week job you pricks.