[Pavlina]

I definitely agree that the IB is significantly harder than A levels, and that university offers for the two diplomas just don't match up - however, I think it's more complicated than a case of unis just not "understanding" the IB.
The IB is taught (at least in my country, and in many others as far as I've heard) in very expensive private schools; paying a lot of money means that the parents have a greater level of leverage. In my school, this led to some ABSURD situations, i.e., one student's parents complained that their son wasn't allowed to smoke on campus, and it violated his basic rights, and that they would switch him to another private school if this wasn't resolved, so the school gave him a special card that allowed him to leave campus whenever he wanted for cig breaks.
This is of course an extreme case, but what I mean is, parents ALSO have more leverage where predicted grades are concerned than in public schools. The teachers/ administration don't just try to be fair, they also try to please the parents who are paying - and so, often, give the students higher predicted grades than they actually deserve. This may be by just one or two points - but in the end, it causes a significant predicted grade inflation as opposed to A level schools. Top universities are flooded with candidates that are predicted 40 and above, even though they will probably only end up achieving a 36 (which is ALREADY a fine result at IB.)
I think this discredits the diploma, as universities are never sure of whether the predicted grades are accurate or a result of pressure put on the school; also, since they receive so many apparently "exceptional" candidates, they are forced to set the bar much higher. In this way, they're also checking whether the predicted grades are correct - "alright, you're predicted a 42! Well, that's great. Let's see if you can actually GET those grades, and if you can, you're more than welcome to attend."

Do you see what I mean? In IB more so than in A level, predicted grades are VERY inaccurate compared to the actual grades the students achieve, which must make it harder for universities to sort things out.

Also, some universities DO understand the A level and give quite fair offers. For example, in Queen Mary (4th in the UK for Law, right after Oxbridge and UCL) a typical A level offer is A*AA. A typical IB offer is 36 points. So, some places ARE coming around to understanding the IB better

[killerhales]

Thank, Pavlina, that is a great post and I can relate to the situation you describe, and think it could definitely apply in many schools.

Our own case was slightly different. The Head of IB at my daughter's school told us he had predicted a 40-42 range for her, which we knew was definitely over-the top.

He recently sent my daughter a copy of his reference, which actually had the prediction of 38-40. This was spot on, in fact, as my daughter got 39. Having said that, she only got 1 point for TOK/EE, which was a surprise. had she got 2, she would have got 40, so both predictions would have been right!

It would be very interesting to hear from a university admissions tutor about the relative accuracy of A-level predictions versus IB predictions.

Back on topic: having done A-levels myself (a long time ago, I admit), despite the title of this thread, I would REALLY ENCOURAGE anyone who has the choice of either system to seriously consider IB. Having a broad education will pay off in the long run.

The only exception to to this would be if you are absolutely sure that you want to do something that requires Maths, Physics & Chemistry at A-level where the specialism works more in A-levels' favour.

[ecko1o1]

(Original post by Pavlina)
I definitely agree that the IB is significantly harder than A levels, and that university offers for the two diplomas just don't match up - however, I think it's more complicated than a case of unis just not "understanding" the IB.
The IB is taught (at least in my country, and in many others as far as I've heard) in very expensive private schools; paying a lot of money means that the parents have a greater level of leverage. In my school, this led to some ABSURD situations, i.e., one student's parents complained that their son wasn't allowed to smoke on campus, and it violated his basic rights, and that they would switch him to another private school if this wasn't resolved, so the school gave him a special card that allowed him to leave campus whenever he wanted for cig breaks.
This is of course an extreme case, but what I mean is, parents ALSO have more leverage where predicted grades are concerned than in public schools. The teachers/ administration don't just try to be fair, they also try to please the parents who are paying - and so, often, give the students higher predicted grades than they actually deserve. This may be by just one or two points - but in the end, it causes a significant predicted grade inflation as opposed to A level schools. Top universities are flooded with candidates that are predicted 40 and above, even though they will probably only end up achieving a 36 (which is ALREADY a fine result at IB.)
I think this discredits the diploma, as universities are never sure of whether the predicted grades are accurate or a result of pressure put on the school; also, since they receive so many apparently "exceptional" candidates, they are forced to set the bar much higher. In this way, they're also checking whether the predicted grades are correct - "alright, you're predicted a 42! Well, that's great. Let's see if you can actually GET those grades, and if you can, you're more than welcome to attend."

Do you see what I mean? In IB more so than in A level, predicted grades are VERY inaccurate compared to the actual grades the students achieve, which must make it harder for universities to sort things out.

Also, some universities DO understand the A level and give quite fair offers. For example, in Queen Mary (4th in the UK for Law, right after Oxbridge and UCL) a typical A level offer is A*AA. A typical IB offer is 36 points. So, some places ARE coming around to understanding the IB better

What you say makes total sense. These idiotic private schools ruin it for everyone else. People who are actually predicted correct grades, for instance 36, might not get offers while those predicted 39 will, even though in the end they may only get 34. The whole system is a joke. I think I lost a place at LSE because of competing candidates who had inflated scores the same or higher than mine (40) and also due to the fact that top institutions just don't believe in IB predictions anymore. This is another reason why nobody should do the IB. It has become a joke in university's eyes.

[ecko1o1]

(Original post by killerhales)
Thank, Pavlina, that is a great post and I can relate to the situation you describe, and think it could definitely apply in many schools.

Our own case was slightly different. The Head of IB at my daughter's school told us he had predicted a 40-42 range for her, which we knew was definitely over-the top.

He recently sent my daughter a copy of his reference, which actually had the prediction of 38-40. This was spot on, in fact, as my daughter got 39. Having said that, she only got 1 point for TOK/EE, which was a surprise. had she got 2, she would have got 40, so both predictions would have been right!

It would be very interesting to hear from a university admissions tutor about the relative accuracy of A-level predictions versus IB predictions.

Back on topic: having done A-levels myself (a long time ago, I admit), despite the title of this thread, I would REALLY ENCOURAGE anyone who has the choice of either system to seriously consider IB. Having a broad education will pay off in the long run.

The only exception to to this would be if you are absolutely sure that you want to do something that requires Maths, Physics & Chemistry at A-level where the specialism works more in A-levels' favour.

Stop it with the IB propaganda. Screw your broad education nonsense. If an A-level student wants a broad education, he or she can get it by choosing A levels in different subjects. What's to stop a student from taking maths, physics, history, french and english literature? It definitely would be better than taking the load of *******s that is the IB where you have to spend hundreds of hours on non academic nonsense (CAS) and hundreds of hours on things you never asked for, like the Group 4 science project and theory of knowledge. IB is simply discredited, in the eyes of universities and in the eyes of many schools are are jettisoning it off because of the high requirements by universities (38, 7,6,6 HL for AAA?, or even worse int the case of Oxford, 40-42,7-7-6 HL for AAA)
IB is a joke, a money-making scam run by an international corporation in Geneva that charges high prices for education you can get much cheaper elsewhere. They are all marketing and hype but does the IB achieve any results? No.

[killerhales]

It's horses for courses.

In writing, you come across as being embittered by your personal experience. There will be similar students who have been equally embittered by their (bad) personal experience of A-levels, or other qualifications.

Objectively, many students get a lot out of the IB, and I don't agree with your comment that IB has somehow been discredited. All the other exam boards that I am aware of are also commercial organisations, and I would point you to the scandal around A levels last year.

I have no connection with the IB, other than my daughter's positive feedback, but I think it's important that your particular view, however valid it may be, based on your experience, is balanced by more positive views based on others' experience.

[Serentonin]

^ Agreed. I'm glad I did IB. Our predicted grades were basically what we got, I went to a state school.

[BennyBoii]

The IB may be difficult to do but if you apply yourself and work hard to get the points you need then its achievable. The IB is a wonderful opprotunity for those who wish to study abroad for their university years. The IB is not a shame, it's good opportunity to widen ur horizens.

[shirley0y]

Well, I'm doing the IB and I find it worthwhile and rewarding. Let's say the IB is for those who love to challenge themselves and who want to make the most out of their high school academic life. Also, it prepares students very well for university.

[Cool Kid]

(Original post by MyselfEtAl)
****, that's pretty impressive considering where you're at now

Not really. Anyone can jump through hoops into oddity PhD's if they spend as long as he has in the education system. The real question is what can he do when he has to leave university & would his time have been better spent doing something else?

[-strawberry-]

(Original post by XxelliexX)
IB is difficult. There's no denying it.
It takes the right kind of person to do it. You have to do 7 subjects (including ToK) + EE and CAS - you have to be very organised to balance it all.
Plus, I strongly believe that university IB offers do not correspond with their A Level offers. One girl in my year has an offer from Cambridge, but she needs 42 points with 777 in her highers (she does maths, physics and chemistry at higher). Anybody who has any knowledge of HL Maths would know that getting a 7 is insanely difficult! This kind of offer is not equal to an A*AA offer, IMO.
That being said, I also believe that if I chose to do A Levels instead of the IB, I would have had less chance of securing an offer from Cambridge. Half of my interview was spent talking about my Extended Essay, and the other half was spent talking about the essay that I wrote for them in the exam. In both instances, the IB helped me greatly.

Firstly, having written an in depth essay about a topic (determinism) that I was interested in gave me something really good to talk about in my interview (I guess a certain degree of luck was needed for them to actually talk about my EE in the first place though).
Secondly, the extended essay, and tok, and my philosophy, classics and english courses all helped develop my essay writing skills for my exam essay.

Plus, I chose to apply to a college that has lower grade requirements for the IB, so I got a much fairer offer than some of my friends. So I guess it worked out ok for me.
I would personally advise against the IB. It's not worth the mental anguish and the ridiculously hard work. I don't think that I have received many of the 'benefits' from studying it that I was told I would receive. However, in hindsight I might come to think that it was worth it. If you do your research when applying to universities, and apply to places that give out good IB offers, or give out offers based on UCAS points (which are very much in favour of the IB), then you should do alright.

Well, people doing A levels can do the equivalent of an Extended Essay - the Extended Project Qualification (EPQ). Although you seem to have completely contradicted yourself by saying don't do the IB. ?

[XxelliexX]

(Original post by -strawberry-)
Well, people doing A levels can do the equivalent of an Extended Essay - the Extended Project Qualification (EPQ). Although you seem to have completely contradicted yourself by saying don't do the IB. ?

Many of my friends from my old school were told that they had to do the EPQ, but they resented it and couldn't be bothered with it, so they didn't do it. If it's a compulsory part of your studies then you'll have more motivation to do it and do it well.
And actually, I never explicitly said 'don't do the IB'. I said 'I would advise against it,' but that if you're lucky like me and apply to places that give fair IB offers then you'll be alright.

[-strawberry-]

(Original post by XxelliexX)
Many of my friends from my old school were told that they had to do the EPQ, but they resented it and couldn't be bothered with it, so they didn't do it. If it's a compulsory part of your studies then you'll have more motivation to do it and do it well.
And actually, I never explicitly said 'don't do the IB'. I said 'I would advise against it,' but that if you're lucky like me and apply to places that give fair IB offers then you'll be alright.

Oh well at my school it's a choice and plenty of people do it and I'm really looking forward to doing it And fair enough I suppose but I particularly hate the IB (even though I don't/never considered doing it) because my friend said to me that the only reason you wouldn't do it is if you're lazy...

[tinman1]

The IB is so pointless, you must be beyond stupid to pick it over a levels. Sooo much work for something employers don't prefer/don't understand...then all they do is moan how hard done by they are with their huge workload? Just bitter and full of regret.

My school did it but only foreigners chose it and a few people who wanted to work oversea's. If you plan on staying and working in this country, it's an utterly pointless thing to choose.

[agm23]

This was clearly written by a bitter someone who didn't make it to Oxford...

I did the IB and it was honestly the best thing I have ever done with my lazy ass. It made me work hard, yes, but people make out it's this living HELL that you'll never get through, boo hoo etc etc...
The truth is, students are simply too lazy to actually do some hard work for once - I learnt that well enough from the majority of my friends doing A-Level 9don't get me wrong though, cause depending on what you choose and how many, A-Levels are tough).
With IB you really earn your grades. I still had time to myself - procrastination was my TOP priority haha! - and everyone knows IB's party. And we party hard.

I prefer to think of it as 'Intellectually Badass'.

[the_13th]

Well, IB does improve your understanding of the world.

[Eastern]

I don't like the main argument of here for picking A-Levels over IB, which is that IB is not worth so much of hard work.*

To my mind, that hard work is why IB is more rewarding high-school experience. In my case, I am the laziest person on this planet, the master of procrastination, but what IB does is actually it makes you to move your ass as you have no other choice. At first, I hated the idea of doing historical investigation, that seemed like a lot of work. But now I am so proud I have actually done it, produced a decent written work in terms with academic standards, it opened new horizons for me. Of course, I believe you can do something like that in A-Levels but you probably would not if you had a choice, why bother, right? Thus, I stand for IB because it actually makes one move his or her ass, experience new and unfamiliar things..

Kennedy chose to send a crew to the Moon not because this was easy task, but because it was hard and I believe it paid off. Thus, doing IB even though harder and sometimes seeminglu unnecessary filled with subject and tasks you hate, it actually is more rewarding in terms of the development of personality.

[ecko1o1]

(Original post by the_13th)
Well, IB does improve your understanding of the world.

No it doesn't. The IB worldview is extremely stupid and pointless. Not everyone wants to be an internationalist communist third world loving robot.

[rohana]

(Original post by ecko1o1)
As someone who spent the past two years of his life slaving away on the IB, let me warn you, the IB is a sham. It is not well regarded, how can you claim it is so when oxford gives AAA offers for a level but gives 40 777 offers for ib (the former very easy to obtain, the latter very very difficult. Doing 4 A levels is much much easier, even 5 A levels is easier than the IB diploma.
The IB will make your life miserable and make it that much more difficult for you to get into university. If you can do a levels, advanced placement, the french bac, the abitur, cambridge pre U, ANYTHING! Do that instead. IB will be the worst mistake you'll ever make.

Hear hear, rightly said.Cheers to you mate.

[afarewelltoarms]

Just wondering, is it true that IB isn't recognized by Unis as harder than A-levs? because a lot of teachers at my school say it is (i'm not sure if they are just trying to make us feel better or not)

[Azland]

The debate will never really end. In my personal opinion however I think the only A Level board comparable to the IB in terms of difficulty is CIE as it does not have any of this module BS and the depth is broader. Retakes are also not as simple as "re-sitting whichever module I found hard two months later" which puts it on par with IB retakes.