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The TSR Scottish National Party - recruiting now.

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    (Original post by FrigidSymphony)
    I'll do that then.
    True, but the real SNP hasn't achieved independence yet, but is always a very interesting counterweight to the traditional parties of the UK. I'm especially interested in the way a proposed breakup of the union would affect the interactions between model Tories and Labour.
    Or, if we were to win a referendum, it wouldn't be too much hassle to create a subsection for a TSR Scottish Parliament
    To be honest there is nowhere enough activity to warrant two parliaments.

    The best stance to take would be something like the 1979 referendum which was not legally binding. You can move for a Yes vote and propose bills ect.. but even if you get a Yes your party could stay on the proviso that the referendum was not legally binding.

    Also good to see you have moved away from RL on some issues (republic, no Euro plans) which should carve out a potential market within the TSR HOC (don't think we have a republican party).

    Despite the fact you will be an opposing party i do think you could be good for the house so best of luck. You would have to be careful that you do not become identical to the other left TSR parties however.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    To be honest there is nowhere enough activity to warrant two parliaments.

    The best stance to take would be something like the 1979 referendum which was not legally binding. You can move for a Yes vote and propose bills ect.. but even if you get a Yes your party could stay on the proviso that the referendum was not legally binding.

    Also good to see you have moved away from RL on some issues (republic, no Euro plans) which should carve out a potential market within the TSR HOC (don't think we have a republican party).

    Despite the fact you will be an opposing party i do think you could be good for the house so best of luck. You would have to be careful that you do not become identical to the other left TSR parties however.
    Well, there goes the Euro, but I've upped the republicanism.
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    6. Lord grant that Marshal Wade
    May by thy mighty aid
    Victory bring
    May he sedition hush
    And like a torrent rush
    Rebellious Scots to crush
    God save the King

    That said, I don't agree with Scottish Independence but good luck anyway. I'm not sure we need a new party and I'm not sure how likely it is a new party will be allowed but good luck!
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    That said, I don't agree with Scottish Independence but good luck anyway. I'm not sure we need a new party and I'm not sure how likely it is a new party will be allowed but good luck!
    And stood against him
    Proud Edward's army!
    And sent him homeward
    tae think again
    I can do it too.
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    (Original post by FrigidSymphony)
    Mission statement:
    I've asked you these questions before, but you ignored it, so I'll copy & paste them onto here.

    1. Scotland will not be instantly allowed into the Eurozone, what currency do you plan on using in the years between "independence" and the Euro (providing the Euro still exists)

    2. Under present rules, prior to joining the euro, a country must join ERM II - but how is that possible if you don't control your own interest rates?

    3. Why would the German bankers that run the EU want a small, new and peripheral nation joining a currency union in which they a struggling at the moment to hold together? Scotland most resembles Ireland, why would they be happy to welcome another risk to their currency?

    4. If there is one thing that the single currency crisis has demonstrated beyond debate it is that you cannot have crisis free monetary union without matching fiscal union. What do you even mean by "independence"? Why is a Eurozone fiscal union any better than a fiscal union involving Sterling (which is a much more stable currency)?

    5. What do you reckon Scottish borrowing costs will look like? Credit ratings? Do you think that the very low British borrowing costs will remain? If so, why?

    6. Scotland would be forced to join a tight fiscal union with Brussels, a union in which Scotland would have much less representation than it does in the United Kingdom. I don't see how you can argue with this, the Eurozone is moving towards a fiscal union, with terms dictated on mainland Europe - based on an economic policy that takes a plethora of countries into account, of which Scotland (if it is allowed in) will be one small state amongst many - including states much larger than England - namely Germany, Italy and France. It wouldn't be a slave, because that is silly emotional language, but it would surrender most of it's fiscal autonomy to a supranational body - as opposed to the national body of the United Kingdom.
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    (Original post by Organ)
    I've asked you these questions before, but you ignored it, so I'll copy & paste them onto here.

    1. Scotland will not be instantly allowed into the Eurozone, what currency do you plan on using in the years between "independence" and the Euro (providing the Euro still exists)

    2. Under present rules, prior to joining the euro, a country must join ERM II - but how is that possible if you don't control your own interest rates?

    3. Why would the German bankers that run the EU want a small, new and peripheral nation joining a currency union in which they a struggling at the moment to hold together? Scotland most resembles Ireland, why would they be happy to welcome another risk to their currency?

    4. If there is one thing that the single currency crisis has demonstrated beyond debate it is that you cannot have crisis free monetary union without matching fiscal union. What do you even mean by "independence"? Why is a Eurozone fiscal union any better than a fiscal union involving Sterling (which is a much more stable currency)?

    5. What do you reckon Scottish borrowing costs will look like? Credit ratings? Do you think that the very low British borrowing costs will remain? If so, why?

    6. Scotland would be forced to join a tight fiscal union with Brussels, a union in which Scotland would have much less representation than it does in the United Kingdom. I don't see how you can argue with this, the Eurozone is moving towards a fiscal union, with terms dictated on mainland Europe - based on an economic policy that takes a plethora of countries into account, of which Scotland (if it is allowed in) will be one small state amongst many - including states much larger than England - namely Germany, Italy and France. It wouldn't be a slave, because that is silly emotional language, but it would surrender most of it's fiscal autonomy to a supranational body - as opposed to the national body of the United Kingdom.
    1. Pound sterling. Or some form of Scottish pound, like the Irish pound before the Euro, if we adopt the Euro at all.

    2. Who says we wouldn't?

    3. German bankers do not run the EU, that's a ridiculous statement, and in any case, all signs put forward by the EU indicate the desire for further cooperation and integration of states. Furthermore, it is entirely possible that a successful integration with Scotland and the EU would be an example to the ever europhobic UK, something which would be much appreciated by the EU.

    4. It's not an absolute dichotomy- who says we would want to adopt the Euro after all? And why would you assume that we would abandon all connections with England? The shared history is undeniable- by independence we mean that we would be better off, as would the rest of the UK, running our own affairs as we see fit.

    5. No idea, but I'm very curious to find out.

    6. And yet, many would feel that the supranational EU would make decisions that are better for Scotland than the national government of the UK. In any case, no one has said that we are for a complete and utter assimilation into the European system, merely that we wish to cooperate for mutual benefit. The future of Europe is important to us.

    I would in any case wish to dismiss the idea that independence would create an absolute alienation from the rest of Britain. There is no reason for this, it would be petty. An independent Scotland could be a modern and progressive example for the UK to lead by- for example, a Guardian article yesterday proposed that the UK revamp its parliamentary structure to that of an elected senate, and adopt a more federal level of government for the different states.
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    You do know that the SNP isn't even aiming for a republic? lol good effort.
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    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    You do know that the SNP isn't even aiming for a republic? lol good effort.
    Yes, Salmond has said something about keeping the Queen as the head of state... Am I Salmond?
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    (Original post by FrigidSymphony)
    Yes, Salmond has said something about keeping the Queen as the head of state... Am I Salmond?
    Oh, so I'm guessing this thread was your own interpretation of an independence campaign then.
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    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    Oh, so I'm guessing this thread was your own interpretation of an independence campaign then.
    It's a model thereof designed to stimulate debate for its own sake on a scale imitative of the British political system.
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    Is this needed once the TSR Referendum says Scotland is independent?
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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    Is this needed once the TSR Referendum says Scotland is independent?
    Would the referendum be considered legally binding? If not, then yes.
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    (Original post by FrigidSymphony)
    Would the referendum be considered legally binding? If not, then yes.
    What do you think it is for? if it is a success that means TSR MHoC won't have control of Scotland... thus this party won't be required.
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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    Is this needed once the TSR Referendum says Scotland is independent?
    *if

    (Original post by FrigidSymphony)
    Would the referendum be considered legally binding? If not, then yes.
    Technically no, but I imagine an independence bill would be hard to vote against if the referendum passes.
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    I wouldn't mind joining though only if I can stay in my current party as well - In any case there is a great deal of political parity (wrt policy).
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    (Original post by Stricof)
    I wouldn't mind joining though only if I can stay in my current party as well - In any case there is a great deal of political parity (wrt policy).
    What's your current party? I don't think it would be an issue.
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    I don't personally support the SNP or Scottish independence, but I fully support the SNP's right to existence if it garners enough support on here.
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    How many members have joined?
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    How many members have joined?
    So far only me and one other.
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    (Original post by Stricof)
    I wouldn't mind joining though only if I can stay in my current party as well - In any case there is a great deal of political parity (wrt policy).
    Ditto this tbh.
Updated: February 17, 2012
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