Results are out! Find what you need...fast. Get quick advice or join the chat
Hey there! Sign in to have your say on this topicNew here? Join for free to post

Hard Drugs Should be Legal, Is my Argument Correct?

This thread is sponsored by:
Announcements Posted on
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Wrong. Because the price would fall dramatically if you legalised the drugs. They are expensive because the supply is held back to a large extent because it is actually hard work to get these drugs into the country.


    It is much safer and cheaper to have drugs sold by nice white middle class business man on the highstreet than from some shady gangsta on the ghetto
    How do you approach the fact that drugs such as Crystal Meth and Heroin are highly addictive and dangerous. I know you'll say that there wouldn't be the extra ''ingredients'' so to speak, but it'd be naive to suggest that they're suddenly healthy for us.

    Also, say if they are legal, how do you stop Crack Cocaine or Speedballs?
    • 7 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    Wrong. Because the price would fall dramatically if you legalised the drugs. They are expensive because the supply is held back to a large extent because it is actually hard work to get these drugs into the country.

    It is much safer and cheaper to have drugs sold by nice white middle class business man on the highstreet than from some shady gangsta on the ghetto
    Heroin is a very addictive drug. Once you're addicted to the drug, you're going to need bigger doses to get that high. This is obviously going to cost you more. Considering, I referenced the underclass who make very little money this is going to be a problem. With drugs like heroin it's hard to go about on your day to day activities this increases the chance of getting laid off work. Hence, are going to have to find other ways of getting you're doses.

    This is also all ignoring the fact even if the UK legalizes drugs, other countries won't. What does this mean? Drugs whose ingredients can only be found outside of the UK are going to go through the illegal underground market. Hence, these "bad" unpure drugs return because we going to have to deal with shoddy Russian gangsters who smuggle it from countries like Afghanistan.

    This is why I believe harder drugs shouldn't be legal but it also shouldn't be illegal rather decriminalized. This means that we can help those who have an addiction to the harder drugs instead of arresting them this pretty much solves must problems that legalizing would have plus more.
    • 34 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
    This is why I believe harder drugs shouldn't be legal but it also shouldn't be illegal rather decriminalized. This means that we can help those who have an addiction to the harder drugs instead of arresting them this pretty much solves must problems that legalizing would have plus more.
    In practice, I think the soft drugs should be fully legalised. People would then substitute to those drugs.

    And the harder drugs decriminalised.
    • 8 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Police the streets for a week and then tell me that heroin/ cocaine doesn't harm anybody. Do you have ANY idea how much crime can be attributed to these hard drugs? People can **** up their bodies as much as they want for all I care but a lot of criminal damage, theft, burglary, assault/ battery and so on is a direct result of use or addiction to class A drugs.

    There are drugs like ecstasy that are not particularly addictive, expensive or destructive (relative to meth/ heroin/ etc) that you could make a case for, but the second substance abuse becomes a serious threat to people who aren't taking it is the point at which the standard libertarian rhetoric breaks down.
    • Thread Starter
    • 4 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Llamageddon)
    Police the streets for a week and then tell me that heroin/ cocaine doesn't harm anybody. Do you have ANY idea how much crime can be attributed to these hard drugs? People can **** up their bodies as much as they want for all I care but a lot of criminal damage, theft, burglary, assault/ battery and so on is a direct result of use or addiction to class A drugs.

    There are drugs like ecstasy that are not particularly addictive, expensive or destructive (relative to meth/ heroin/ etc) that you could make a case for, but the second substance abuse becomes a serious threat to people who aren't taking it is the point at which the standard libertarian rhetoric breaks down.
    You do realise that at the line of Decriminalisation and then legalisation the use of harder drugs falls.

    Pure heroin is actually quite safe, a lot of reseacrch is going into it, it is still addictive, but do you know what the side affect is?

    Its constapation.

    Obviously you can over dose, but when you take too much of anything its affects are bad, stronger alcohols are basically poisen, when you have to much, and have it often, you are going down the s******.

    I know lets make alcohol illegal that'll solve the problem, erm .... oh wait.

    And do you have ANY idea why there is crime, its because of their LEGAL status, besides the fact use will go down, the most we can fear is that partiers will be like bingers on a friday night, alcoholics are pretty much self destructive to themselves, so will be the addicts. But let me reiterate, a VERY small amount of people use these drugs and even fewer will under decriminalisation/legalisation, portugal and 90's Holland were doing just fine.
    • 8 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by prog2djent)
    You do realise that at the line of Decriminalisation and then legalisation the use of harder drugs falls.
    You do realise that's a load of gash that is spouted without hard evidence by people who unquestioningly accept information that confirms their pre-existing beliefs?
    Pure heroin is actually quite safe, a lot of reseacrch is going into it, it is still addictive, but do you know what the side affect is?
    I couldn't care less if it was perfectly safe to the person taking it. Drug dependency is what causes users to break into houses and empty them in a desperate attempt to avoid the acute misery of withdrawal and if you're going to claim that "pure heroin" doesn't induce dependency you can jog on.

    Obviously you can over dose, but when you take too much of anything its affects are bad, stronger alcohols are basically poisen, when you have to much, and have it often, you are going down the s******.
    I don't think you read the post you quoted. As said (a few times) I couldn't care less what people do to themselves. People can sphyxi ****, so best to be consistent. It is when people put other peoples safety at risk that issues arise.
    I know lets make alcohol illegal that'll solve the problem, erm .... oh wait.
    strawman.
    And do you have ANY idea why there is crime, its because of their LEGAL status,
    Not talking about crimes related to misuse of drugs. Talking about crimes associated with the levels of desperation caused by drug dependency, by the level of violence associated with cocaine use and so on.

    besides the fact use will go down
    Not a fact.
    the most we can fear is that partiers will be like bingers on a friday night, alcoholics are pretty much self destructive to themselves, so will be the addicts.
    I refer you back to the "try policing the streets for a week". The increase in violence associated with alcohol in no way compares to that of Cocaine, the level of crime associated with drug dependency too is far higher than alcohol.
    • 4 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tulley11)
    Of course Heroin harms others, it's quite narrow minded to suggest otherwise. The addictiveness of the drug can lead to a lot of socio-economic problems, lead to crime to fund the drug etc.
    It leads to such only because being illegal keeps the price so high that an addict must steal to support himself.

    Under a legal system, a lot of criminality would disappear.

    Further, there ar more that chip than are addicts and they do not contribute to crime at all other than their pusher.

    Listen and learn.

    https://mises.org/media/3511/5-The-Drug-Addict

    https://mises.org/media/3510/4-The-Drug-Pusher

    Regards
    DL
    • 4 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    In practice, I think the soft drugs should be fully legalised. People would then substitute to those drugs.

    And the harder drugs decriminalised.
    I do not disagree with your general view but would point out that decriminalization alone would keep pushers on the street to recruit new users.

    Under full legalization, you eliminate the pushers and thus parents can finally stop the wolves from getting to their children regardless of the drug in question.

    Regards
    DL
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Greatest I am)
    It leads to such only because being illegal keeps the price so high that an addict must steal to support himself.

    Under a legal system, a lot of criminality would disappear.

    Further, there ar more that chip than are addicts and they do not contribute to crime at all other than their pusher.

    Listen and learn.

    https://mises.org/media/3511/5-The-Drug-Addict

    https://mises.org/media/3510/4-The-Drug-Pusher

    Regards
    DL
    The price is high? Cocaine's price is nothing these days, if anything the price could go up when the purity increases.

    Drugs would affect businesses, could you imagine a CEO saying hes taking heroin? Can't imagine that'd go down well.
    • 4 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tulley11)
    The price is high? Cocaine's price is nothing these days, if anything the price could go up when the purity increases.

    Drugs would affect businesses, could you imagine a CEO saying hes taking heroin? Can't imagine that'd go down well.
    In this ignorant generation not. In an educated one, yes.

    Would it be so much better to see him smoking and drinking as opposed to taking something healthier and contributing to a system that has learned to protect it's children.

    How about doing some thinking and realizing that you have a duty to help protect the younger generations and the only way we can do that is through a legal medical system.

    Regards
    DL
    • Thread Starter
    • 4 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tulley11)

    Drugs would affect businesses, could you imagine a CEO saying hes taking heroin? Can't imagine that'd go down well.
    That's the dumbest argument I've heard from the anti-legalisation crowd apart from "but it affects families" or "society wouldn't function"

    Derp

    Herp

    Herpa derpa tiddledy tum
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    The whole classification system Is broken for several reasons.

    if it where based on the drugs that where the largest problem to society Alcohol and Tobacco would be at the top i.e. most illegal. Cannabis would be somewhere at the bottom and things like Heroin Ketamine, MDMA would all be high risk.

    as soon as a drug is changed in the slightest, i.e sticking an Oxygen where a Hydrogen used to be, it ceases to become illegal, and can be sold under the label (not for human consumption)
    yet many of the effects are similar.


    though the law seems very rigid in practise boundaries are quite arbitrary and many police officers will turn a blind eye to some class B drugs just because.

    The focus doesn't really have a definitive line when something is Personal use and something is intent to supply.

    So in a way the whole system needs to be redrawn. whether this means legalisation which im not in favour of or just a less arbitrary system.
    • 4 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by OSharp)
    The whole classification system Is broken for several reasons.

    if it where based on the drugs that where the largest problem to society Alcohol and Tobacco would be at the top i.e. most illegal. Cannabis would be somewhere at the bottom and things like Heroin Ketamine, MDMA would all be high risk.

    as soon as a drug is changed in the slightest, i.e sticking an Oxygen where a Hydrogen used to be, it ceases to become illegal, and can be sold under the label (not for human consumption)
    yet many of the effects are similar.


    though the law seems very rigid in practise boundaries are quite arbitrary and many police officers will turn a blind eye to some class B drugs just because.

    The focus doesn't really have a definitive line when something is Personal use and something is intent to supply.

    So in a way the whole system needs to be redrawn. whether this means legalisation which im not in favour of or just a less arbitrary system.
    From a medical view, I have no problem with the way they are classed.

    From a legal POV, yes, they should be based on harm and not chemical properties.

    You will know that that will never happen under an illegal system. Only a legal system will change the harm class and allow us to rid the streets of pushers and allow parents to protect their children as their duty demands.

    Regards
    DL
    • 9 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    I competely agree with the OP. In a free society you can't ban something that might harm someone. Harm yourself as much as you want, as long as you don't harm other people.

    + the fact that alcohol is far more harmful than many illegal drugs.
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dragonfly07)
    I competely agree with the OP. In a free society you can't ban something that might harm someone. Harm yourself as much as you want, as long as you don't harm other people.

    + the fact that alcohol is far more harmful than many illegal drugs.
    Alcohol pays for itself through taxation though.

    the fact is that many illegal drugs cost alot of money when users come to the state and expect to be treated.

    of course this is only one argument one could argue that one puts oneself at risk by playing sport or driving.

    Everyone assumes that if Drugs where taxable that the system would be better but the fact is if people can make a profit making drugs cheaply without tax, they will. its completely different to home brewed alcohol because your essential buying a brand when you buy beer for example. the brands of drugs that would be taxed would never be able to compete with the street trade.
    • 9 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by OSharp)
    Alcohol pays for itself through taxation though.

    the fact is that many illegal drugs cost alot of money when users come to the state and expect to be treated.

    of course this is only one argument one could argue that one puts oneself at risk by playing sport or driving.

    Everyone assumes that if Drugs where taxable that the system would be better but the fact is if people can make a profit making drugs cheaply without tax, they will. its completely different to home brewed alcohol because your essential buying a brand when you buy beer for example. the brands of drugs that would be taxed would never be able to compete with the street trade.
    Read my first argument. You think drugs are bad. Do you need a law to prevent you from doing drugs in order to not do it? Or do you want the law put in place in order to prevent other people from doing drugs (I believe they have an individual right to do it if they want to).
    • 9 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by OSharp)
    the brands of drugs that would be taxed would never be able to compete with the street trade.
    Why not?
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    Why not?
    1. The tax would be massive imagine 20% Vat minimum + at least another 40% taxation to cover costs to NHS
    1 Gram of cocaine costs £40 to make £20 profit you'd have to sell the drugs at around £100 a gram thats just a hypothetical numbers but you see where i come from

    2. Cannabis and other drugs can be grown at relatively low cost with little resources, once this happens how can the police tell whether the drugs have come from a licencee shop or elsewhere

    3. Drugs synthesises in laboratories would be held to much higher standards and so would cost more to produce despite the associated health benifits, a user might buy drugs from a legal source a few times when that individual is addicted and wants a higher dose they turn to street dealers who sell cheaper drugs cut with all sorts of rubbish. this effect only gets worse if you limit the amount of drugs you sell legitimately.

    the only reason people don't sell bootleg petrol is because its pretty much impossible to get unless you own an oil rig. i mean just look at all the effort people take to remove the dye from Red diesel
    • 9 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by OSharp)
    1. The tax would be massive imagine 20% Vat minimum + at least another 40% taxation to cover costs to NHS
    1 Gram of cocaine costs £40 to make £20 profit you'd have to sell the drugs at around £100 a gram thats just a hypothetical numbers but you see where i come from

    2. Cannabis and other drugs can be grown at relatively low cost with little resources, once this happens how can the police tell whether the drugs have come from a licencee shop or elsewhere

    3. Drugs synthesises in laboratories would be held to much higher standards and so would cost more to produce despite the associated health benifits, a user might buy drugs from a legal source a few times when that individual is addicted and wants a higher dose they turn to street dealers who sell cheaper drugs cut with all sorts of rubbish. this effect only gets worse if you limit the amount of drugs you sell legitimately.

    the only reason people don't sell bootleg petrol is because its pretty much impossible to get unless you own an oil rig. i mean just look at all the effort people take to remove the dye from Red diesel
    Why do you assume that the legal retail prices before tax will be the same as current illegal street prices? Obviously the price will go down when the risk factors involved in transporting illegal substances are eliminated. For example, under prohibition the price of bootlegged beer was 700% higher than when it was legal. And while production costs may be higher in professional laboratories, the process will be more efficient. The fact is that prohibition drives prices up. Simple as that.
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    Why do you assume that the legal retail prices before tax will be the same as current illegal street prices? Obviously the price will go down when the risk factors involved transporting illegal substances are eliminated. For example, under prohibition the price of bootlegged beer was 700% higher than when it was legal. And while production costs may be higher in professional laboratories, the process will be more efficient. The fact is that prohibition drives prices up. Simple as that.
    I am in a sense playing the devils advocate here, I believe that people should be able to chose what they put into their bodies the problem i has is when it costs others either physically or economically therefore I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree on this one as neither of us will ever be able to prove or disprove anything..... without getting into a lot of trouble with the police

Reply

Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?
  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?
  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. By joining you agree to our Ts and Cs, privacy policy and site rules

  2. Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: April 22, 2012
New on TSR

The future of apprenticeships

Join the discussion in the apprenticeships hub!

Article updates
Useful resources
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.