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Who are your top 10 F1 drivers of all time?

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    (Original post by The_master616)
    I'd rather believe what neutral respected journalists had to say and from the Williams mechanics than what a biased tv programme created for the knuckle dragging worshippers do.
    Neutral journalists? They were biased against him because they didn't like him, ffs, so I can't take their views seriously.

    (Original post by The_master616)
    I also admire Mansell's time in F1, but I disagree that he was the greatest ever.
    I never said he was the 'greatest ever', but he's definitely top 10 or even top 5 of all time as I said.

    (Original post by The_master616)
    He wasn't a complete driver and it is partly because of this that he isn't a multiple WDC.
    How wasn't he a complete driver? He had it all....raw speed, racecraft, ability to lead and motivate a team, etc. He literally transformed the Williams team when he rejoined in 1991, by motivating everyone around him to perform better and put more effort into everything, and it worked.
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    (Original post by super_dooper)
    How wasn't he a complete driver? He had it all....raw speed, racecraft, ability to lead and motivate a team, etc. He literally transformed the Williams team when he rejoined in 1991, by motivating everyone around him to perform better and put more effort into everything, and it worked.
    Although Adrian Newey joining from Leyton House may have had something to do with it.
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    That why Piquet outdid him in 86 and 87?:teehee:
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    (Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
    Although Adrian Newey joining from Leyton House may have had something to do with it.
    Adrian Newey had a LOT to do with the Williams in the early 90s.
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    (Original post by The_master616)
    That why Piquet outdid him in 86 and 87?:teehee:
    Fool. Do your research. Mansell only lost the 1986 championship because his tyre exploded while he was leading in Adelaide, i.e. no fault of his own. And in '87 Mansell lost the championship as he had a crash in practice at Suzuka and injured his back, handing the title to Piquet.

    People really do need to know what they're talking about before they reply...
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    (Original post by super_dooper)
    Fool. Do your research. Mansell only lost the 1986 championship because his tyre exploded while he was leading in Adelaide, i.e. no fault of his own. And in '87 Mansell lost the championship as he had a crash in practice at Suzuka and injured his back, handing the title to Piquet.

    People really do need to know what they're talking about before they reply...
    Indeed they do. Like the time Mansell bottled it at the 1986 Mexican grand prix by fluffing his start and finishing only 5th when he had the opportunity to sew up the title then.

    Not to mention 1987, when Piquet was ALREADY ahead of him on points prior to the Japanese grand prix. Not to mention outsmarting the moustachioed moaner most of the season. In addition to that, Nelson was only half fit for most of the year because of his smash in San Marino and Mansell STILL couldn't beat him over the year.

    Did you cry when he shaved his moustache off? Did you?
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    (Original post by The_master616)
    Indeed they do. Like the time Mansell bottled it at the 1986 Mexican grand prix by fluffing his start and finishing only 5th when he had the opportunity to sew up the title then.

    Not to mention 1987, when Piquet was ALREADY ahead of him on points prior to the Japanese grand prix. Not to mention outsmarting the moustachioed moaner most of the season. In addition to that, Nelson was only half fit for most of the year because of his smash in San Marino and Mansell STILL couldn't beat him over the year.

    Did you cry when he shaved his moustache off? Did you?
    Lol, Piquet was so rattled by Mansell that he had to result to mind games and calling Mansell names in the Brazillian press and Playboy etc. He always felt the need to 'destabilise' his team mates mentally off the track, instead of beating them fair and square on the track. This proves Piquet felt Nigel to be a threat.

    If Piquet was so good, why did he moan so much about Mansell beating him?
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    Not to mention Elio de Angelis wiped the floor with him in '84, that was also the season he whacked the barrier in Monaco and blamed a 'white line' - an excuse never repeated.
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    (Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
    Not to mention Elio de Angelis wiped the floor with him in '84.
    Get your facts right instead of just stating things out of context. After Chapman died, Lotus went into decline and only had the resources to support one driver fully. As a result, the second driver wasn't given equal equipment or equal status within the team. Elio de Angelis was also favoured over Mansell because team manager Peter Warr hated Mansell.

    Once Mansell left the team and Senna joined, the team focused their support on Senna, leaving de Angelis in the shade. If you do your research, you'll know that Mansell and de Angelis actually became really good friends after Mansell left the team, and they openly discussed how Lotus were favouring one driver over another. De Angelis got pissed off that they were favouring Senna over him, and he confided in Mansell about this.

    So it's not simply a case if 'Elio de Angelis wiped the floor with him in '84'. You have to dig a bit deeper and find out why. When you understand how Lotus operated, you'll realise.

    I would suggest to you all that you read Mansell's autobiography - it's a great, inspiring read, and it gives a behind the scenes insight into what was going on in F1 during that period.
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    (Original post by super_dooper)
    Get your facts right instead of just stating things out of context. After Chapman died, Lotus went into decline and only had the resources to support one driver fully. As a result, the second driver wasn't given equal equipment or equal status within the team. Elio de Angelis was also favoured over Mansell because team manager Peter Warr hated Mansell.

    Once Mansell left the team and Senna joined, the team focused their support on Senna, leaving de Angelis in the shade. If you do your research, you'll know that Mansell and de Angelis actually became really good friends after Mansell left the team, and they openly discussed how Lotus were favouring one driver over another. De Angelis got pissed off that they were favouring Senna over him, and he confided in Mansell about this.

    So it's not simply a case if 'Elio de Angelis wiped the floor with him in '84'. You have to dig a bit deeper and find out why. When you understand how Lotus operated, you'll realise.

    I would suggest to you all that you read Mansell's autobiography - it's a great, inspiring read, and it gives a behind the scenes insight into what was going on in F1 during that period.
    Did it inspire you to grow a moustache?
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    (Original post by super_dooper)
    Get your facts right instead of just stating things out of context. After Chapman died, Lotus went into decline and only had the resources to support one driver fully. As a result, the second driver wasn't given equal equipment or equal status within the team. Elio de Angelis was also favoured over Mansell because team manager Peter Warr hated Mansell.

    Once Mansell left the team and Senna joined, the team focused their support on Senna, leaving de Angelis in the shade. If you do your research, you'll know that Mansell and de Angelis actually became really good friends after Mansell left the team, and they openly discussed how Lotus were favouring one driver over another. De Angelis got pissed off that they were favouring Senna over him, and he confided in Mansell about this.

    So it's not simply a case if 'Elio de Angelis wiped the floor with him in '84'. You have to dig a bit deeper and find out why. When you understand how Lotus operated, you'll realise.

    I would suggest to you all that you read Mansell's autobiography - it's a great, inspiring read, and it gives a behind the scenes insight into what was going on in F1 during that period.
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    (Original post by Marc Fiorano)
    That engine failure in Suzuka was painful to watch. I remember it was Ferrari's first engine failure in something like 6 years, worst timing.
    I was so unbelievably gutted, and shocked that it had to happen then. Schumacher might have picked up title number 8!
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    I think that there is a real danger in using the could've, should've, would've arguament because while i agree that Mansell was good in that vein i could argue that Alonso should be a 4 time world champion, or Riokkenen and Hamilton 3 time world champions.

    Ultimately that is not how it played out and history has been written.

    Agree about Suzuka although his performance in Brazil 06 was brilliant.
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    (Original post by super_dooper)
    You cannot know whether they were 'immeasurably superior' unless they raced against Mansell in equal equipment and were judged that way. It's impossible to accurately judge drivers of different eras as to how they compare with each other, as they are racing totally different cars, tracks and different rules.



    They competed in fewer races than Mansell, so that will make their wins to starts ratio biasly higher.



    I don't think the 1991 Williams was superior to the 1991 McLaren. The McLaren that year was pretty evenly matched with the Williams on pace. Williams were quicker on some circuits, McLaren on others. It was only in 1992 that the Williams extablished authority over McLaren.

    If you do your homework on the 1991 season, you'll see that the Williams car was very unreliable that year. Mansell had gearbox failure in the early races, an electrical failure on the last lap in Canada, as well as a pitlane incident in Portugal where his wheel came off in the pitlane. None of these things were his fault. He was totally in with a chance of the title, and could've won the title if the bad luck hadn't happened. He had the speed and the talent.



    In actual fact, Mansell should've been a 3 or 4 times F1 world champion. 1986 was his, until the bad luck with his exploding tyre. 1987 was his until the crash at Suzuka. 1991 was his, but he was robbed for the bad luck/car failures etc. 1992 was his, he dominated that season. So I'm not sure that he was 'outdriven' by Senna....and he didn't only win because he had a dominant car, despite what the press say. Mansell just had a lot of bad luck in his career. On pure talent alone, he should've won more titles, but fate sadly intervened. I also believe he would've won the 1990 title for Ferrari, had he been allowed to race Prost on equal terms (as Prost basically manipulated the team into favouring him).

    I don't care what anyone says, Mansell was just as good as anyone on pure talent and speed.
    I don't agree.
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    (Original post by Marc Fiorano)
    That engine failure in Suzuka was painful to watch. I remember it was Ferrari's first engine failure in something like 6 years, worst timing.
    Yea- my heart sunk at that instant.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I think that there is a real danger in using the could've, should've, would've arguament because while i agree that Mansell was good in that vein i could argue that Alonso should be a 4 time world champion, or Riokkenen and Hamilton 3 time world champions.

    Ultimately that is not how it played out and history has been written.

    Agree about Suzuka although his performance in Brazil 06 was brilliant.
    Exactly.

    One could also say Schumacher would've won 07/08 had he not retired (which in my opinion he would've given Kimi's trivials).
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    (Original post by Leavemyarcelona)
    I don't agree.
    What don't you agree on, and why?
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    (Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
    He's in the top 10 motorsport drivers, but I wouldn't rank him alongside Senna, Prost and Schumacher as he wasn't *that* amazing in F1, same with Stirling Moss.

    My top 10:

    1. Ayrton Senna
    2. Michael Schumacher
    3. Alain Prost
    4. Juan Manuel Fangio
    5. Jim Clark
    6. Graham Hill
    7. Niki Lauda
    8. Jackie Stewart
    9. Emerson Fittipaldi
    10. Gilles Villeneuve/Nelson Piquet
    Very true
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    (Original post by super_dooper)
    What don't you agree on, and why?
    That Mansell was better than Clark or Fangio.
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    One intersting comparison is Mansell v Vettle.

    SAO PAULO -- Two-time Formula One champion Sebastian Vettel made history again on Saturday, breaking Nigel Mansell's 19-year record for the most pole positions in a season.

    One year after becoming the youngest driver to win the F1 championship, the German captured his 15th pole at the Brazilian Grand Prix on Saturday to surpass the mark Mansell set in 1992.
    Much was made of this but I don't know why as Mansells season was shorter, he did it in 16 races and Vettle 19. As % poles in a season go Mansell is very much infront.

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