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Is an Apprenticeship actually worthwhile?

I've seen countless adverts in local papers advertising jobs available on an apprenticeship basis, the vast majority of which are seemingly nothing more than an excuse to pay people far far less than the NMW while trapping them into a job for a long period of time.

Those I have seen include "Apprentice Store Assistant" in Next, full time for a year paying £2.18/hr and a siimilar role at Tesco binding you in for 6 months at £3.50/hr.

How on earth can any qualification justify that?
(edited 12 years ago)

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Reply 1
Avatar for daveyeah
daveyeah
9
My thoughts exactly. Hard to see why anyone should bother.

I always thought an apprenticeship was a quid pro quo: you work hard for very little money over a fixed term period, and in return you get training that sets you up for life, with a good chance of making decent money once you've served your time. Electricians, plumbers, car mechanics, quite a few engineers... they all start off as apprentices, but they get a real trade and a career out of it.

Working as a shelf stacker takes maybe a fortnight to get good at, doesn't give you any skills, and won't qualify you for better jobs. Is this the kind of useless thing Work Programme candidates are being sent on by the Jobcentre?

Original post by Drewski
I've seen countless adverts in local papers advertising jobs available on an apprenticeship basis, the vast majority of which are seemingly nothing more than an excuse to pay people far far less than the NMW while trapping them into a job for a long period of time.

Those I have seen include "Apprentice Store Assistant" in Next, full time for a year paying £2.18/hr and a siimilar role at Tesco binding you in for 6 months at £3.50/hr.

How on earth can any qualification justify that?
I agree with you. I've also seen those apprentice sales assistant job ads and wondered that they are kinda weird, because, what's the actual point in them? A bit silly considering that a lot of previously inexperienced people manage to get hired as properly employed sales assistants earning at least minimum wage.

I like working in retail and don't mind working for free in a charity shop in order to get the experience whilst simultaneously helping out a good cause, but to work full time for ~£2.50 for a big business like Next? You've got to be kidding me!
Reply 3
Avatar for Jamil1987
Jamil1987
2
Original post by CherryCherryBoomBoom
I agree with you. I've also seen those apprentice sales assistant job ads and wondered that they are kinda weird, because, what's the actual point in them? A bit silly considering that a lot of previously inexperienced people manage to get hired as properly employed sales assistants earning at least minimum wage.

I like working in retail and don't mind working for free in a charity shop in order to get the experience whilst simultaneously helping out a good cause, but to work full time for ~£2.50 for a big business like Next? You've got to be kidding me!


What if u had no option and were sitting at home doing nothing. Would you take it then?
Exploitation at it's finest.
Original post by Jamil1987
What if u had no option and were sitting at home doing nothing. Would you take it then?


Mmm, maybe. But to be honest I'd much rather go out and do useful skill-building volunteer jobs whilst claiming JSA (which is pretty much what I do now, plus a bit of casual working), rather than take up an apprenticeship that I don't feel will be much worth my while, economic wise nor career-advancing-wise.

I have applied for apprenticeships in creative and digital media, which is more relevant to a type of career I might like long term, but I won't apply for retail apprenticeships because I feel they're silly and I already have plenty of retail experience anyway.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 6
Avatar for marcusfox
marcusfox
16
Original post by Drewski
I've seen countless adverts in local papers advertising jobs available on an apprenticeship basis, the vast majority of which are seemingly nothing more than an excuse to pay people far far less than the NMW while trapping them into a job for a long period of time.

Those I have seen include "Apprentice Store Assistant" in Next, full time for a year paying £2.18/hr and a siimilar role at Tesco binding you in for 6 months at £3.50/hr.

How on earth can any qualification justify that?


No, I have seen these too. They will just have you stacking shelves for the duration and there is nothing you wouldn't learn from a stint working for minimum wage.

Apprenticeships were when there was a real monetary layout in terms of staff and equipment required for training someone in the workplace where they would need to use machinery and tools, where it wouldn't be safe to say to the trainee - well, there's the hydraulic press, that one makes it go up and that one makes it go down, now get on with it...

Seriously, what employer is going to look differently at someone who has a "Retail Apprenticeship" vs one who has otherwise extensive retail experience in the real world?
Obviously no one in their right mind would go for something like this.
Competitive apprenticeships in trades provide around 150-180 pounds on a 37.5 hour week. Rising to 250-280 for years 3,4 of higher apprenticeships. This is from Engineering.

So from the off you’re looking at around. £4.80/hour That’s bearable.
Reply 8
Avatar for Drewski
Drewski
OP
19
Original post by Sam Walters
Obviously no one in their right mind would go for something like this.
Competitive apprenticeships in trades provide around 150-180 pounds on a 37.5 hour week. Rising to 250-280 for years 3,4 of higher apprenticeships. This is from Engineering.

So from the off you’re looking at around. £4.80/hour That’s bearable.


Yet their existance proves otherwise. There are people out there desperate for any form of employment who will go for these utterly rediculous schemes.

The worst part of it is these companies will be getting large handouts from the Government in return for offering these 'apprenticeships'. It's criminal.
Original post by Drewski
Yet their existance proves otherwise. There are people out there desperate for any form of employment who will go for these utterly rediculous schemes.

The worst part of it is these companies will be getting large handouts from the Government in return for offering these 'apprenticeships'. It's criminal.


Its a bit disgraceful.
Original post by Drewski
I've seen countless adverts in local papers advertising jobs available on an apprenticeship basis, the vast majority of which are seemingly nothing more than an excuse to pay people far far less than the NMW while trapping them into a job for a long period of time.

Those I have seen include "Apprentice Store Assistant" in Next, full time for a year paying £2.18/hr and a siimilar role at Tesco binding you in for 6 months at £3.50/hr.

How on earth can any qualification justify that?


If it's £2.18 an hour then that's illegal because the NMW for apprentices is £2.60.

Secondly, for 16-18 year olds it's not really that bad a deal. Their NMW is only about £1 more. If you seriously have no other options then I don't see why they wouldn't take it ... but I do agree that it is a bit hard to justify it for shelf stacking. Apprentices should be about building skills for life - bricklaying, hair dressing, child care, whatever... not stacking shelves which anybody can do.
Original post by inksplodge
If it's £2.18 an hour then that's illegal because the NMW for apprentices is £2.60.

Secondly, for 16-18 year olds it's not really that bad a deal. Their NMW is only about £1 more. If you seriously have no other options then I don't see why they wouldn't take it ... but I do agree that it is a bit hard to justify it for shelf stacking. Apprentices should be about building skills for life - bricklaying, hair dressing, child care, whatever... not stacking shelves which anybody can do.


Tbf those £1s all add up in the end :thumbsup:
Original post by Nick1sHere
Tbf those £1s all add up in the end :thumbsup:


Yeah they do - but what 16/17 year old has things to pay for? Other than rent contributions to their parents. :tongue: I'm on an apprenticeship (although I'm not far off minimum wage) and have to pay for my rent, utilities, car insurance, petrol (easily £200 a month), phone etc. It's very difficult for an adult than someone straight out of school IMO. :smile:
Original post by inksplodge
If it's £2.18 an hour then that's illegal because the NMW for apprentices is £2.60.

Secondly, for 16-18 year olds it's not really that bad a deal. Their NMW is only about £1 more. If you seriously have no other options then I don't see why they wouldn't take it ... but I do agree that it is a bit hard to justify it for shelf stacking. Apprentices should be about building skills for life - bricklaying, hair dressing, child care, whatever... not stacking shelves which anybody can do.


Hear hear! :top: Perhaps we should all sign some sort of petition, pushing for more useful apprenticeships in proper skills-based work, rather than these stupid sales assistant jobs which should all be at least minimum wage normal jobs for people who really need them.
Original post by inksplodge
Yeah they do - but what 16/17 year old has things to pay for? Other than rent contributions to their parents. :tongue: I'm on an apprenticeship (although I'm not far off minimum wage) and have to pay for my rent, utilities, car insurance, petrol (easily £200 a month), phone etc. It's very difficult for an adult than someone straight out of school IMO. :smile:


Oh yeah definitely, I agree with everything you've said... What apprenticeship are you doing?
Original post by Nick1sHere
Oh yeah definitely, I agree with everything you've said... What apprenticeship are you doing?


I'm a PR and Marketing apprentice :smile:
Reply 16
Avatar for 2cool
2cool
10
Original post by daveyeah
My thoughts exactly. Hard to see why anyone should bother.

I always thought an apprenticeship was a quid pro quo: you work hard for very little money over a fixed term period, and in return you get training that sets you up for life, with a good chance of making decent money once you've served your time. Electricians, plumbers, car mechanics, quite a few engineers... they all start off as apprentices, but they get a real trade and a career out of it.

Working as a shelf stacker takes maybe a fortnight to get good at, doesn't give you any skills, and won't qualify you for better jobs. Is this the kind of useless thing Work Programme candidates are being sent on by the Jobcentre?


Youve got that bang on, I think an aprpenticeship in a trade is fantastic, but an apprentice shelf stacker? thats just 6 months slave labour
Reply 17
Avatar for Emor
Emor
13
For a joke I was looking at the Aldi apprenticeship scheme and I watched a video and apparently the people in the video were planning to become assistant manager with-in two years and with-in five years own their own branch/shop/whatever. To me it seemed like a fast-track to the managerial positions. And if you own an entire Aldi I'd figure you'd be making a fair amount of money.

I still think it's really silly and exploitative, but if you are content with working in retail and there's a good chance a full time and secure position will come out of it I don't see it as *so* bad. Esp. if it is designed to fast-track you to the higher wage earning positions. Though it does look like just an excuse to pay people below the NMW.
Has anyone had an apprenticeship? I'm trying to find out more about them, do they work? Like did you get a job? I suppose if you get a job at the end then thats ok but they ought to pay minimum wage really
Original post by AppleonDesk
Has anyone had an apprenticeship? I'm trying to find out more about them, do they work? Like did you get a job? I suppose if you get a job at the end then thats ok but they ought to pay minimum wage really


You wont get minimum wage in an apprenticeship until you're past your first year and 19 or over. For the most part anyway. In skilled work I very much understand why. But in something like working in next I really don't.

I suspect that the effectiveness of the scheme would be down to the employer and adjoining college rather then it being a flaw in the scheme system.

The scheme I`m on is very tailored not just to the company I`m working for but me as an individual. All depends on the companies morals and aims of taking on an apprentice.

The company I work for expect the cost of hiring an apprentice for the full four year course will cost them £80,000. Although I doubt a retailer such as next will be willing to invest quite so much into someone.

But then again next are not able to make a pump that can be placed on the back of a fly.


They work. If you do well you're very likely to get a job on the other end of it. But pick the right industry and right employer.

An example of this is one of my friends. Got a place on an apprenticeship as a machinist in a small company. They said they sacked him because he was not making enough progress in the workshop. The reality is the company were down on work so got rid of him.

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