[Usernameitis]

Just found out that there's a specific forum for Saint Andrews, so I'll post my concern here...

===================

About four months ago I applied through the UCAS system to various universities. However, I didn't give any predicted grades, yet so far two out of five have accepted me. In any case, Saint Andrews gave me an offer around two months and a half ago and since then I'm extremely nervous.

To tell you the truth, I absolutely love learning and figuring things out. Nonetheless, my school experiences have been less than exemplary throughout the years. As a consequence of this, I learned outside school and never really paid much attention to schoolwork. As such, even though I have academic ability and knowledge I don't excel in school because I simply don't follow the specified format. Usually, this wasn't an issue as grades didn't bother me much but now they're starting to be a life or death scenario.

What I'm trying to get at is this, should I look into the fact that they accepted me without predicted grades and five months before the official deadline? Furthermore, how set in stone are conditional offers; how negotiable are they? Does the fact that they accepted me so early in the game mean that I have some leverage? They're asking me for 38 IB points, but I think 35 would be a far more realistic end result for me. Does anyone know someone who's successfully navigated through such a situation?

I'm not a bad student, it's just that I inadvertently tend to rebel without noticing, which puts me at odds with the teachers in a very traditional environment. Either way, I appreciate any opinions I can get on the matter. I'd appreciate any help you can give because just thinking about this issue gets me feeling sick.

P.S. Also, I have a disability (which I mentioned in my UCAS form) which makes writing exams and the like extremely painful. As such, my grades are adversely affected by this disability if it somehow involves writing by hand. Could I use this to be able to negotiate for a more sensible offer?

[James82]

Can you not get rest breaks or extra time for your exams?

You probably don't have any leverage, if you don't meet your offer there's no harm in asking if they'll take you, they can only say no, depending on the course I would think your chances range between highly unlikely and never in a million years.

[Usernameitis]

(Original post by James82)
Can you not get rest breaks or extra time for your exams?

You probably don't have any leverage, if you don't meet your offer there's no harm in asking if they'll take you, they can only say no, depending on the course I would think your chances range between highly unlikely and never in a million years.

Well, at most I've gained longer time for the exam. However, this merely exacerbates the issue because the longer I write the worse it gets. Consequently, I cannot reach my full potential in handwritten work because I focus more that it's somehow readable than the actual content.

Also, I've heard of people on these boards getting unconditional offers for next year if they do not make the conditional ones this year. How likely is such a scenario?

[catoswyn]

(Original post by Usernameitis)
Just found out that there's a specific forum for Saint Andrews, so I'll post my concern here...

===================

About four months ago I applied through the UCAS system to various universities. However, I didn't give any predicted grades, yet so far two out of five have accepted me. In any case, Saint Andrews gave me an offer around two months and a half ago and since then I'm extremely nervous.

To tell you the truth, I absolutely love learning and figuring things out. Nonetheless, my school experiences have been less than exemplary throughout the years. As a consequence of this, I learned outside school and never really paid much attention to schoolwork. As such, even though I have academic ability and knowledge I don't excel in school because I simply don't follow the specified format. Usually, this wasn't an issue as grades didn't bother me much but now they're starting to be a life or death scenario.

What I'm trying to get at is this, should I look into the fact that they accepted me without predicted grades and five months before the official deadline? Furthermore, how set in stone are conditional offers; how negotiable are they? Does the fact that they accepted me so early in the game mean that I have some leverage? They're asking me for 38 IB points, but I think 35 would be a far more realistic end result for me. Does anyone know someone who's successfully navigated through such a situation?

I'm not a bad student, it's just that I inadvertently tend to rebel without noticing, which puts me at odds with the teachers in a very traditional environment. Either way, I appreciate any opinions I can get on the matter. I'd appreciate any help you can give because just thinking about this issue gets me feeling sick.

P.S. Also, I have a disability (which I mentioned in my UCAS form) which makes writing exams and the like extremely painful. As such, my grades are adversely affected by this disability if it somehow involves writing by hand. Could I use this to be able to negotiate for a more sensible offer?

Don't know about the flexibility they give to overseas students who do not meet the conditions. For a 'home' student there is often little flexibility in truth because each university makes more 'offers' than it has places on the understanding that some people will turn them down and some will fail to meet the conditions. This means the course is usually filled by those who do make the conditions and there is no space left for those who don't to be considered anyway.

However, as I understand it, there is no Government 'cap' on overseas students as there is on 'home' students. This gives the university a litttle more leeway. You are also worth more to them financially if you are from outside the EU so if they can take these students they will.

The university you mention is highly thought of. It is therefore unlikely that they would drop their offers too far as they are graded on the standard of entry of their students and the final degree obtained.

So far as the disability. You may be able to get permission to use a laptop for written examinations but only if you have a full medical report or an assessment by somebody such as an educational pyschologist. This must have been completed after the age of sixteen and within the last two years. If you have such a report then you can start making enquiries regarding arrangements at the Universities 'learning support' office. The name varies from uni to uni but you'll find the office that deals with this sort of thing on line at the university sites.

You probably can't get a reduction in conditional offer due to disability as this should have been declared and included in the original application. If it was then your offer should include the fact this was taken into consideration. If you think you did not declare it fully/your referee did not note it then you could try I suppose but in truth they expect disabled people to achieve as highly as anyone else if the correct support is in place.



Good luck

[Oxy]

They'll probably let you in, seeing as you're paying so much. They need the money.

[Usernameitis]

(Original post by catoswyn)
Don't know about the flexibility they give to overseas students who do not meet the conditions. For a 'home' student there is often little flexibility in truth because each university makes more 'offers' than it has places on the understanding that some people will turn them down and some will fail to meet the conditions. This means the course is usually filled by those who do make the conditions and there is no space left for those who don't to be considered anyway.

However, as I understand it, there is no Government 'cap' on overseas students as there is on 'home' students. This gives the university a litttle more leeway. You are also worth more to them financially if you are from outside the EU so if they can take these students they will.

The university you mention is highly thought of. It is therefore unlikely that they would drop their offers too far as they are graded on the standard of entry of their students and the final degree obtained.

So far as the disability. You may be able to get permission to use a laptop for written examinations but only if you have a full medical report or an assessment by somebody such as an educational pyschologist. This must have been completed after the age of sixteen and within the last two years. If you have such a report then you can start making enquiries regarding arrangements at the Universities 'learning support' office. The name varies from uni to uni but you'll find the office that deals with this sort of thing on line at the university sites.

You probably can't get a reduction in conditional offer due to disability as this should have been declared and included in the original application. If it was then your offer should include the fact this was taken into consideration. If you think you did not declare it fully/your referee did not note it then you could try I suppose but in truth they expect disabled people to achieve as highly as anyone else if the correct support is in place.



Good luck

I've tried and so far the best I've gotten is a tad more time for the exam. However, this only exacerbates the issue because the longer I write the more painful it becomes.


Also, I'm curious some of you people are mentioning that I'm an overseas student. That is indeed the case. However, I'm wondering whether something I posted tipped you off to the fact, or did you visit the other thread I made a while back before coming to this conclusion?

EDIT: Just noticed that you posted on the other thread so my assumptions were right.

[Usernameitis]

(Original post by Oxy)
They'll probably let you in, seeing as you're paying so much. They need the money.

I'm assuming this is probably sarcasm.

[catoswyn]

(Original post by Usernameitis)
I've tried and so far the best I've gotten is a tad more time for the exam. However, this only exacerbates the issue because the longer I write the more painful it becomes.


Also, I'm curious some of you people are mentioning that I'm an overseas student. That is indeed the case. However, I'm wondering whether something I posted tipped you off to the fact, or did you visit the other thread I made a while back before coming to this conclusion?

EDIT: Just noticed that you posted on the other thread so my assumptions were right.

Hi, I think I noticed the IB.. not many people do that here really.
You definitely qualify under the British system for the use of an aid during exams such as a laptop. Do not let them put you off on this. You will need an ed.psych, doctor or similar to confirm this. The point is that it is not the condition you have which is the deciding factor. It is how the condition specifically affects performance that must be noted by them in the report.

If it affects the speed of your writing or your ability to undertake sustained effort or if pain causes you to lose concentration these are all valid reasons for the use of an aid that combats these factors. Extra time does not help in your case as it is does not address these specific issues you face. It would be the equivelant of offering a blind person three extra days to answer a question but never supplying the question in Braille or aural form. They have not met the specific need and the person has no better means of succeeding than before.

I don't know the situation where you are though??? Here the evidence would be sent to the examination board by the college examination office to request permission and the exam board would confirm it. At degree level universities are their own awarding bodies and they do the same process internally.

Good luck

[James82]

(Original post by Usernameitis)
I'm assuming this is probably sarcasm.

I doubt it, I know for a fact that universities will choose non EU students in preference to EU students, because they make more money out of them. I was waiting in my tutor's office for a tutorial and overheard two people in the corridor discussing the fact they had two more places left to offer on a course and about 20 applicants still shortlisted, 4 of them were overseas students, the conclusion of the conversation was to give the offers to the 2 overseas students who they thought would most likely accept their offers.

[Usernameitis]

(Original post by James82)
I doubt it, I know for a fact that universities will choose non EU students in preference to EU students, because they make more money out of them. I was waiting in my tutor's office for a tutorial and overheard two people in the corridor discussing the fact they had two more places left to offer on a course and about 20 applicants still shortlisted, 4 of them were overseas students, the conclusion of the conversation was to give the offers to the 2 overseas students who they thought would most likely accept their offers.

Yeah, but if memory serves around 1/7 of all students at Saint Andrews are Americans and I'm also guessing that a great percentage of the rest are EU students and overseas students. As such, I think they're already making tonnes of money out of them, and thus they have the luxury of being picky.

It's a well-known policy of Saint Andrews to prefer overseas students because they aren't subsidized. Consequently, they issue more conditional offers to them; but I'd think that's where the preferential treatment ends due to the fact that they need to maintain the university's standards and grades are supposedly a way in which they can gauge ability of a student (I completely disagree with this notion but that's just the way things seem to be).

(Original post by catoswyn)
Hi, I think I noticed the IB.. not many people do that here really.
You definitely qualify under the British system for the use of an aid during exams such as a laptop. Do not let them put you off on this. You will need an ed.psych, doctor or similar to confirm this. The point is that it is not the condition you have which is the deciding factor. It is how the condition specifically affects performance that must be noted by them in the report.

If it affects the speed of your writing or your ability to undertake sustained effort or if pain causes you to lose concentration these are all valid reasons for the use of an aid that combats these factors. Extra time does not help in your case as it is does not address these specific issues you face. It would be the equivelant of offering a blind person three extra days to answer a question but never supplying the question in Braille or aural form. They have not met the specific need and the person has no better means of succeeding than before.

I don't know the situation where you are though??? Here the evidence would be sent to the examination board by the college examination office to request permission and the exam board would confirm it. At degree level universities are their own awarding bodies and they do the same process internally.

Good luck

Well, I live in Mexico and let's just say that the process over here isn't quite as straightforward. The IB coordinator has the final word on the matter and she seems to believe that additional time is the answer even when provided with medical evidence of the contrary.

[catoswyn]

(Original post by Usernameitis)
Yeah, but if memory serves around 1/7 of all students at Saint Andrews are Americans and I'm also guessing that a great percentage of the rest are EU students and overseas students. As such, I think they're already making tonnes of money out of them, and thus they have the luxury of being picky.

It's a well-known policy of Saint Andrews to prefer overseas students because they aren't subsidized. Consequently, they issue more conditional offers to them; but I'd think that's where the preferential treatment ends due to the fact that they need to maintain the university's standards and grades are supposedly a way in which they can gauge ability of a student (I completely disagree with this notion but that's just the way things seem to be).



Well, I live in Mexico and let's just say that the process over here isn't quite as straightforward. The IB coordinator has the final word on the matter and she seems to believe that additional time is the answer even when provided with medical evidence of the contrary.

that sucks

[Oxy]

(Original post by Usernameitis)
I'm assuming this is probably sarcasm.

It really isn't, if you've seen the amount of "restructuring"/compulsory redundancies around here its not even funny.

They've even stopped giving you bed sheets in all the halls! Haha. Hall Fees go up by around £500 a year, wtf?

[Usernameitis]

(Original post by Oxy)
It really isn't, if you've seen the amount of "restructuring"/compulsory redundancies around here its not even funny.

They've even stopped giving you bed sheets in all the halls! Haha. Hall Fees go up by around £500 a year, wtf?

That doesn't really signal a lack of money, it may show that they're testing what people are willing to accept...

[aerobti]

(Original post by catoswyn)
Don't know about the flexibility they give to overseas students who do not meet the conditions. For a 'home' student there is often little flexibility in truth because each university makes more 'offers' than it has places on the understanding that some people will turn them down and some will fail to meet the conditions. This means the course is usually filled by those who do make the conditions and there is no space left for those who don't to be considered anyway.

However, as I understand it, there is no Government 'cap' on overseas students as there is on 'home' students. This gives the university a litttle more leeway. You are also worth more to them financially if you are from outside the EU so if they can take these students they will.

The university you mention is highly thought of. It is therefore unlikely that they would drop their offers too far as they are graded on the standard of entry of their students and the final degree obtained.

So far as the disability. You may be able to get permission to use a laptop for written examinations but only if you have a full medical report or an assessment by somebody such as an educational pyschologist. This must have been completed after the age of sixteen and within the last two years. If you have such a report then you can start making enquiries regarding arrangements at the Universities 'learning support' office. The name varies from uni to uni but you'll find the office that deals with this sort of thing on line at the university sites.

You probably can't get a reduction in conditional offer due to disability as this should have been declared and included in the original application. If it was then your offer should include the fact this was taken into consideration. If you think you did not declare it fully/your referee did not note it then you could try I suppose but in truth they expect disabled people to achieve as highly as anyone else if the correct support is in place.



Good luck

(Original post by catoswyn)
Don't know about the flexibility they give to overseas students who do not meet the conditions. For a 'home' student there is often little flexibility in truth because each university makes more 'offers' than it has places on the understanding that some people will turn them down and some will fail to meet the conditions. This means the course is usually filled by those who do make the conditions and there is no space left for those who don't to be considered anyway.

However, as I understand it, there is no Government 'cap' on overseas students as there is on 'home' students. This gives the university a litttle more leeway. You are also worth more to them financially if you are from outside the EU so if they can take these students they will.

The university you mention is highly thought of. It is therefore unlikely that they would drop their offers too far as they are graded on the standard of entry of their students and the final degree obtained.

So far as the disability. You may be able to get permission to use a laptop for written examinations but only if you have a full medical report or an assessment by somebody such as an educational pyschologist. This must have been completed after the age of sixteen and within the last two years. If you have such a report then you can start making enquiries regarding arrangements at the Universities 'learning support' office. The name varies from uni to uni but you'll find the office that deals with this sort of thing on line at the university sites.

You probably can't get a reduction in conditional offer due to disability as this should have been declared and included in the original application. If it was then your offer should include the fact this was taken into consideration. If you think you did not declare it fully/your referee did not note it then you could try I suppose but in truth they expect disabled people to achieve as highly as anyone else if the correct support is in place.



Good luck

How about an overseas student who is supposed to ge 38 points in the IB but is probably going to get 36 points? With 4HL's...and a scholarship from St.Andrews? The course is Chemistry btw please help! I'm getting desperate! :P Thank you very much!

[Oxy]

(Original post by aerobti)
How about an overseas student who is supposed to ge 38 points in the IB but is probably going to get 36 points? With 4HL's...and a scholarship from St.Andrews? The course is Chemistry btw please help! I'm getting desperate! :P Thank you very much!

They will probably let you in with 36, purely because they would like your lovely international fee.

OP, bottom line is you're going to have to prove yourself to them some way. I can't really think of another way they could do it except for written exams. Hopefully you'll get some more time because of your condition. There isn't any other way to access your full ability in such a short period of time. I highly doubt they would do it any other way. Never the less, this doesn't mean you shouldn't ask.

[fimblesocks]

You don't like traditional environments yet you want to go to St Andrews? Good luck with that

[aerobti]

(Original post by Oxy)
They will probably let you in with 36, purely because they would like your lovely international fee.

OP, bottom line is you're going to have to prove yourself to them some way. I can't really think of another way they could do it except for written exams. Hopefully you'll get some more time because of your condition. There isn't any other way to access your full ability in such a short period of time. I highly doubt they would do it any other way. Never the less, this doesn't mean you shouldn't ask.

Haha would they really do that? With the money thing? I actually have a friend back here to has applied and she's from Luxembourg but they've accepted her as an international student. She asked to be reconsidered as a home student and she got rejected??
Do you have a rough idea on how they're like with Chemistry? I'm starting to look into my offers from Leeds and Manchester just in case St.A's decides to be mean to me... thanks for all the help and info!

[Usernameitis]

(Original post by fimblesocks)
You don't like traditional environments yet you want to go to St Andrews? Good luck with that

I don't mind traditions if they give you the ability to pursue your interests. Saint Andrews has this to a great extent because even though they possess a very regal attire they give you a lot of freedom for picking courses and the like.

[Oxy]

(Original post by aerobti)
Haha would they really do that? With the money thing? I actually have a friend back here to has applied and she's from Luxembourg but they've accepted her as an international student. She asked to be reconsidered as a home student and she got rejected??
Do you have a rough idea on how they're like with Chemistry? I'm starting to look into my offers from Leeds and Manchester just in case St.A's decides to be mean to me... thanks for all the help and info!

There is the issue of money when you're considered for home / international status. Also there is a cap on the number of people I believe they can accept and it has to be in proportion to RUK applicants. You can assume they would favour an international student over a home student because they get more money from the international one. Chemistry is pretty competitive like 10-12 for every place available.