Results are out! Find what you need...fast. Get quick advice or join the chat
Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free to post

Studying medicine in Europe

Announcements Posted on
Applying to Uni? Let Universities come to you. Click here to get your perfect place 20-10-2014
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aysha92)
    Apart from Malta, none of these programmes seem to be taught in English
    I know, that's kinda why I said if you are prepared to learn another language then they are decent options. I didn't say they were English-taught, just that they were cheap. If you want an English-taught degree in Europe, then it's either Malta (the cheapest), Ireland (~€3000/year) or the other private institutions in Europe (€9000-14000/year)
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Ive applied several times to Medicine in the UK , just a single interview over 3 year application.

    With huge frustration and a degree later , im currently doing Medicine in Hungary.
    The course is more theoretical based , with tough oral exams.
    Entrance procedure is quite simple , and account for mass numbers in first year. with about a 40% fail rate.

    Nonetheless im still doing what ive always wanted , study medicine.

    Y r ppl complaining about learning languages? if u want to practice and have patients, naturally u should be able to communicate with them.

    Medicine is the same worldwide , doesnt matter where u do it. the difference is finding a Uni listed with the GMC , to prevent PLAB exams. but still , ppl do the PLAB and succeed.

    if uve got any queries , dont hesitate.
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ibru)
    Y r ppl complaining about learning languages? if u want to practice and have patients, naturally u should be able to communicate with them.
    The thing is, Medicine is all about communication. I know people say they learn the language of the country they are studying in, but the reality is, because of the fine precision of communication required in Medicine, if you're not a native speaker of that language, you will miss out hugely in the training process during clinical years. I personally would strongly advise against anybody studying in a country whose language is not a language that they are a native speaker of.
    • 30 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    The thing is, Medicine is all about communication. I know people say they learn the language of the country they are studying in, but the reality is, because of the fine precision of communication required in Medicine, if you're not a native speaker of that language, you will miss out hugely in the training process during clinical years. I personally would strongly advise against anybody studying in a country whose language is not a language that they are a native speaker of.
    This is presuming the medical student doesn't get very competent at the language. Though I might be being overly optimistic about other people's potential for language-learning due to being an ex-BA Modern Languages myself.
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    The thing is, Medicine is all about communication. I know people say they learn the language of the country they are studying in, but the reality is, because of the fine precision of communication required in Medicine, if you're not a native speaker of that language, you will miss out hugely in the training process during clinical years. I personally would strongly advise against anybody studying in a country whose language is not a language that they are a native speaker of.

    well many people dont have the luxury of being accepted so easily into their own country , eg UK / Scandinavia .

    I somewhat agree with u Rat , but learning a language is not all that bad either.The clinical years start (here atleast) after the 3rd year. by then ur taught a good level of the language by then. ur gaining a new language which is always a bonus, and u get to chase ur dreams , for me atleast
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ronove)
    This is presuming the medical student doesn't get very competent at the language. Though I might be being overly optimistic about other people's potential for language-learning due to being an ex-BA Modern Languages myself.
    You need absolute fluency to gain meaningful experience from your clinical years.
    • 30 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    You need absolute fluency to gain meaningful experience from your clinical years.
    I appreciate that. Fluency just isn't difficult for me to reach anymore, at least not in Germanic or Romance languages. However if I think back and imagine trying to become fluent in my first language beyond A-level, it probably would've taken a fairly long time, I admit. Probably more of an option for language grads I suppose. :p:
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ibru)
    well many people dont have the luxury of being accepted so easily into their own country , eg UK / Scandinavia .
    The amount of doctors that current UK medical schools churn is about enough for the needs of the country (possibly a bit excess now to be honest)

    (Original post by ibru)
    I somewhat agree with u Rat , but learning a language is not all that bad either.The clinical years start (here atleast) after the 3rd year. by then ur taught a good level of the language by then.
    Being frank, you need absolute fluency to gain anything meaningful in the clinical years. I doubt that could be achieved in 3 years when it is taught as a supplement to the very demanding medical programme. Especially since Eastern European languages (with the exception of Romanian) are naturally much more difficult for people from Western Europe to learn, with Hungarian probably the most difficult of all.

    I know this sounds harsh, but every British graduate of an Eastern European medical school I've encountered has started work in the UK totally unprepared for actually medicine. I know there are British graduates of British medical schools who this applies to as well (you just got to watch that BBC3 series about junior doctors to see that), but they are a small minority. I mean I've never met a graduate from Eastern Europe who could actually take a history. And the vast majority have zero clinical skills (never taken blood, inserted a cannula, etc etc). It's made worse for some of them (from Czech and Hungary) by that they are forced to enter the British system at FY2 level. This is a sad reality.

    (Original post by ibru)
    ur gaining a new language which is always a bonus, and u get to chase ur dreams , for me atleast
    I know everybody has their dreams, but not everybody can realise them, and nobody has a right to achieve them.

    I know this post has been incredibly harsh, but I don't believe in saying things that people want to hear, I believe in saying what is the reality
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    well the reality is , students do graduate from eastern eu , and they do get accepted into the GMC.
    Part of the clinical courses can actually be taken in ur country of choice , i dont see the big fiasco.

    must be personal exp.
    • Thread Starter
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by medic_armadillo7)
    I know, that's kinda why I said if you are prepared to learn another language then they are decent options. I didn't say they were English-taught, just that they were cheap. If you want an English-taught degree in Europe, then it's either Malta (the cheapest), Ireland (~€3000/year) or the other private institutions in Europe (€9000-14000/year)
    Sorry I misunderstood you. I thought that you meant they are English taught language but you need to learn the native language for the country to communicate with patients/ doctors etc.
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ibru)
    Ive applied several times to Medicine in the UK , just a single interview over 3 year application.

    With huge frustration and a degree later , im currently doing Medicine in Hungary.
    The course is more theoretical based , with tough oral exams.
    Entrance procedure is quite simple , and account for mass numbers in first year. with about a 40% fail rate.

    Nonetheless im still doing what ive always wanted , study medicine.

    Y r ppl complaining about learning languages? if u want to practice and have patients, naturally u should be able to communicate with them.

    Medicine is the same worldwide , doesnt matter where u do it. the difference is finding a Uni listed with the GMC , to prevent PLAB exams. but still , ppl do the PLAB and succeed.

    if uve got any queries , dont hesitate.
    I fully-agree with you. If you really want to study medicine, there's generally always a way, provided you aren't tied down with other commitments, and you have the aptitude and motivation. It just depends on how prepared you are to try to get onto an accredited course e.g. practising in another country.

    Most unis in the EU/EEA have a GMC accredited course, particularly in the Benelux countries, Scandinavia, Western Europe and Malta (in fact on graduating they have an interchangeable foundation programme with the UK to the point that a Malta-trained student or UK-trained student can go to either place for FY1 and FY2 (your junior doctor years), and not having their training pathway affected. Currently, it is preferred that all new graduates from a GMC-accredited uni in Europe apply for their graduate job in the UK in order to obtain quickly obtain the full GMC licence after one year, but obviously there are exceptions).

    Ironically, it's some of the English-speaking private institutions that tend to problems with GMC-accreditation as many of their courses are geared towards. As a result, you need further guidance from the GMC and they'll advise you further on the validity of a qualification: As a general rule (although this isn't full-proof), if an establishment is offering an American style MD as opposed to the native diploma, MD, degree or licences offered in that country, I would worry and ask questions. e.g. if you trained in Poland, you need a "Diplomă de licenţă de doctor medic" as an MD may very be rejected. http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/regist...lification.asp

    It has happened before, people have been required to sit the PLAB examination (which is hard) in order to practice here and in years gone past the pass rate has been as low as ~20% for some of the papers.

    Beware as there are also private medicals schools in the UK that neither have GMC-accreditation nor is their degree recognized and you would not be given a GMC licence even if you sat the PLAB exams and aced them - http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/regist...l_colleges.asp


    This website has a database all internationally recognised medical institutions (although not necessarily GMC-accredited - http://avicenna.ku.dk/database/medicine/

    These websites have a list of European medical schools (Last Updated 2006) - http://www.iime.org/database/europe/index.htm and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ools_in_Europe
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by medic_armadillo7)
    I fully-agree with you. If you really want to study medicine, there's generally always a way, provided you aren't tied down with other commitments, and you have the aptitude and motivation. It just depends on how prepared you are to try to get onto an accredited course e.g. practising in another country.

    Most unis in the EU/EEA have a GMC accredited course, particularly in the Benelux countries, Scandinavia, Western Europe and Malta (in fact on graduating they have an interchangeable foundation programme with the UK to the point that a Malta-trained student or UK-trained student can go to either place for FY1 and FY2 (your junior doctor years), and not having their training pathway affected. Currently, it is preferred that all new graduates from a GMC-accredited uni in Europe apply for their graduate job in the UK in order to obtain quickly obtain the full GMC licence after one year, but obviously there are exceptions).

    Ironically, it's some of the English-speaking private institutions that tend to problems with GMC-accreditation as many of their courses are geared towards. As a result, you need further guidance from the GMC and they'll advise you further on the validity of a qualification: As a general rule (although this isn't full-proof), if an establishment is offering an American style MD as opposed to the native diploma, MD, degree or licences offered in that country, I would worry and ask questions. e.g. if you trained in Poland, you need a "Diplomă de licenţă de doctor medic" as an MD may very be rejected. http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/regist...lification.asp

    It has happened before, people have been required to sit the PLAB examination (which is hard) in order to practice here and in years gone past the pass rate has been as low as ~20% for some of the papers.

    Beware as there are also private medicals schools in the UK that neither have GMC-accreditation nor is their degree recognized and you would not be given a GMC licence even if you sat the PLAB exams and aced them - http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/regist...l_colleges.asp


    This website has a database all internationally recognised medical institutions (although not necessarily GMC-accredited - http://avicenna.ku.dk/database/medicine/

    These websites have a list of European medical schools (Last Updated 2006) - http://www.iime.org/database/europe/index.htm and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ools_in_Europe
    Just to clarify there are a number of private institutions in Czech Republic, Hungary and Eastern European that are GMC-accredited (like Charles University in Prague - I know practising UK doctors who finished from there), but it's expensive to go these unis.
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ibru)
    well the reality is , students do graduate from eastern eu , and they do get accepted into the GMC.
    I know, but doesn't mean it's a suitable situation.

    (Original post by ibru)
    Part of the clinical courses can actually be taken in ur country of choice , i dont see the big fiasco.
    In practice, who does this? Is a British medical school really going to accept a British student studying in Eastern Europe to join their degree programme dor their clinical years?

    (Original post by ibru)
    must be personal exp.
    Many British doctors would agree with me.
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by medic_armadillo7)
    I fully-agree with you. If you really want to study medicine, there's generally always a way
    Just because you really want something, doesn't mean you should be allowed to do it
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    Just because you really want something, doesn't mean you should be allowed to do it
    Rule number one, if you're going to quote someone, don't partially quote someone so that's what's being said is taken out of context!

    I said, and I quote in full "If you really want to study medicine, there's generally always a way, provided you aren't tied down with other commitments, and you have the aptitude and motivation."

    If you have the aptitude, the motivation and a good personality then you are at least a good prospective candidate. The admission's tutor at whatever medical school will make that judgment as to whether you make the grade or not. The point I was getting at, is if you do meet such criteria, don't limit your options to studying in the UK, or in English. Medicine is a universal vocation that can be learnt anywhere, where there is an adequate teaching structures such as the universities already mentioned.
    • 30 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by medic_armadillo7)
    The point I was getting at, is if you do meet such criteria, don't limit your options to studying in the UK, or in English. Medicine is a universal vocation that can be learnt anywhere, where there is an adequate teaching structures such as the universities already mentioned.
    Quite! We seem to have a fear of/disdain for every other country's education systems here. Not only are you still going to be trained to the same high standard and cover exactly the same material at most places, at many places the courses are arranged just like over here, with differing (but very much present) amounts of PBL, dissection room time, lectures. For example I believe at Copenhagen and Aalborg in Denmark the pre-clin years' teaching is arranged into systems rather than anatomy/physiology/etc. Which is something I think I would far prefer to learning all of anatomy and then all of physiology and so on.
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by medic_armadillo7)
    Rule number one, if you're going to quote someone, don't partially quote someone so that's what's being said is taken out of context!

    I said, and I quote in full "If you really want to study medicine, there's generally always a way, provided you aren't tied down with other commitments, and you have the aptitude and motivation."
    I wasn't getting at the broader social barriers that might obstruct a pathways into a medical school in the UK. I was reiterating what I had said in a previous post that UK medical schools already churn out about the right number of doctors for the needs of the country. If you are unable to get into a British medical school, you should be asking yourself if this is the right profession for you. The British medical schools are taking the brightest applicants (obviously it's not a perfect system) to provide for the future needs of the country. Is bypassing this entrance into the medical profession by going abroad to a school that has lower entrance standards, only to then enter the profession by the back door really such a good thing to do?

    (Original post by medic_armadillo7)
    If you have the aptitude, the motivation and a good personality then you are at least a good prospective candidate.
    Sure, there are lots of people with this, and British medical school admissions will pick the best of these prospective candidates.

    (Original post by medic_armadillo7)
    The admission's tutor at whatever medical school will make that judgment as to whether you make the grade or not. The point I was getting at, is if you do meet such criteria, don't limit your options to studying in the UK, or in English.
    And this bypassing means is what I am critiquing.

    (Original post by medic_armadillo7)
    Medicine is a universal vocation that can be learnt anywhere, where there is an adequate teaching structures such as the universities already mentioned.
    I think you should only study medicine in a country whose language is a language you can speak totally fluently. If you can't, you will miss out terribly during the clinical years of training.
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ronove)
    Quite! We seem to have a fear of/disdain for every other country's education systems here. Not only are you still going to be trained to the same high standard and cover exactly the same material at most places, at many places the courses are arranged just like over here, with differing (but very much present) amounts of PBL, dissection room time, lectures.
    Point is, I've found British graduates of Eastern European medicals schools to be totally unprepared for being a doctor in the UK, so I don't think they get the same high quality experience as they would in the UK, or at least in a country where they are fluent in that county's language.

    (Original post by Ronove)
    For example I believe at Copenhagen and Aalborg in Denmark the pre-clin years' teaching is arranged into systems rather than anatomy/physiology/etc. Which is something I think I would far prefer to learning all of anatomy and then all of physiology and so on.
    I think a lot, if not most British medical schools teach like that. Mine certainly did, and that was a little while ago
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by kookyuke)
    I'm thinking of applying to Prague, Semmelweis in Hungary and maybe even Italy. PM me if you wanna know more about the application procedure. I have a friend at Semmelweis but it'd be great to chat to someone else who's applying too
    How does the funding work if you are studying abroad?
    • 30 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rat_Bag)
    Point is, I've found British graduates of Eastern European medicals schools to be totally unprepared for being a doctor in the UK, so I don't think they get the same high quality experience as they would in the UK, or at least in a country where they are fluent in that county's language.
    You're talking exclusively about Eastern European medical programmes and the English-taught versions at that.


    I think a lot, if not most British medical schools teach like that. Mine certainly did, and that was a little while ago
    That was my point! People think it'll somehow be much different and potentially a worse way of learning medicine. In Denmark at least, the courses to choose between are pretty much identical to those we choose between in this country. Except for you needing to speak Danish, of course. FYI I have never applied for Medicine in the UK and circumstances dictate that I have no desire to. I pretty much have a life set up for me in Denmark and I couldn't bear to put it off for even 4 years of a Grad Med course.

Reply

Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?
  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?
  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. By joining you agree to our Ts and Cs, privacy policy and site rules

  2. Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: October 5, 2014
New on TSR

Personal statement help

Use our clever tool to create a PS you're proud of.

Article updates
Reputation gems:
You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.