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How can people think homosexuality is a choice?

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Original post by DYKWIA
Because it is better for society as a whole, it encourages people to be more understanding, it keeps marriage safe and also it can help to keep levels of HIV infections in gay people down. I wouldn't be so edgy if it wasn't for the fact the ban on gay marriage is in a precarious position at the moment and I feel society is in a much worse position now. I'd be happy if I knew gay marriage wasn't gonna be legalized and if gay adoption was banned. When you push for gay marriage it only upsets those who don't agree with it.



Why do you feel the need to provoke me like that?



I don't dislike gays. I really don't. Also, that was supposed to be a PM, if I had wanted to say it in the open, I would have put it better.


why should gay marriage not be allowed?

and why shouldnt gays adopt?

how will it harm society (hint hiv has nothing to do with this)
Original post by Jester94
I love reactions like that :smile: happy your friend reacted in such a cool way. Slowly but surely telling more of my friends, though I feel like it's only fair to tell my parents before I tell anyone else, but I keep chickening out. I don't think they'd exactly have a problem with it, but there's still that element of irrational doubt saying they could flip haha! Also, don't really want to be known as just 'the lesbian in the sixth form', which is stupid and pretty irrational, but I never said I was a rational human being!!


if it helps one of my good friends at college has been out since she was 14/15 and no one thinks twice about it, like no one defines her as "that lesbian". she's also been in a good relationship for the past 2 years.. we're in quite a middle class area too, but on the other hand there aren't many chavs.

i know it's different for everyone and depends on the people you have around you, but i think some people can surprise you even if you are expecting them to have the worst reaction ever :smile:
if someone rejects you for it then they don't deserve your company and you can do better... i know that doesn't really help much but at least you know what kind of person they really are and you don't need fairweather friends around you, it's better to have a few good friends who accept you for something that has no relation to who you are as a person.
Original post by DYKWIA


I don't dislike gays. I really don't. Also, that was supposed to be a PM, if I had wanted to say it in the open, I would have put it better.


yeah, of course you don't...

and that makes it so much better :rolleyes:
Reply 423
Original post by DYKWIA
Because it is better for society as a whole, it encourages people to be more understanding, it keeps marriage safe and also it can help to keep levels of HIV infections in gay people down. I wouldn't be so edgy if it wasn't for the fact the ban on gay marriage is in a precarious position at the moment and I feel society is in a much worse position now. I'd be happy if I knew gay marriage wasn't gonna be legalized and if gay adoption was banned. When you push for gay marriage it only upsets those who don't agree with it.



Why do you feel the need to provoke me like that?



I don't dislike gays. I really don't. Also, that was supposed to be a PM, if I had wanted to say it in the open, I would have put it better.


How does BANNING something encourage more understanding, it just breeds intolerance. And how is it better for society as a whole; do you not think that it could lead to a bitterness towards politicians perhaps, for not allowing gay marriage to be legalised? Also, you are incredibly naive if you think that not legalising gay marriage will stop gay people having sex - anyway, that is beside the point, because HIV is not caused by gay people, it's because people have unprotected sex.

Oh, so you're still maintaining you're not a homophobe, yet now you also want to ban gay adoption? I'm sure you'll have a whole list of delightful reasons to quote at me as to why that is...

And since when did the universe revolve around you - did I miss that memo? Don't you realise when you trash gay people/gay marriage/gay adoption you upset LGBTQ people and their straight allies, or anyone with a sense of decency and equality? Sorry, I must have not heard that we had to stop pushing for equality because it upsets you, silly me...

And that last sentence is laughable. 'I would have made it sound better if it wasn't a PM'?? You do realise that does absolutely nothing to support your increasingly transparent argument that you are not a homophobe, right?
Reply 424
It's the same way that paedophilia is a choice.
Original post by DYKWIA
it can help to keep levels of HIV infections in gay people down.


When you push for gay marriage it only upsets those who don't agree with it.


i can't believe i'm rising to this again.... but how on earth did you work that one out??!! do you even have any logical reasoning behind that or did you just pull that out of your arse too?



those who don't agree with it are most likely 9 times out of 10 (i would say 10 but there are probably exceptions) homophobes and/or use religion as an argument (which is usually just an excuse for homophobia) and i do not think we should pander to bigotry nor should religion be involved with politics.

you have not shown ANY rational reasoning to back up your stance that gay people shouldn't have the right to marry.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 426
Original post by Bellissima
if it helps one of my good friends at college has been out since she was 14/15 and no one thinks twice about it, like no one defines her as "that lesbian". she's also been in a good relationship for the past 2 years.. we're in quite a middle class area too, but on the other hand there aren't many chavs.

i know it's different for everyone and depends on the people you have around you, but i think some people can surprise you even if you are expecting them to have the worst reaction ever :smile:
if someone rejects you for it then they don't deserve your company and you can do better... i know that doesn't really help much but at least you know what kind of person they really are and you don't need fairweather friends around you, it's better to have a few good friends who accept you for something that has no relation to who you are as a person.


Thankyou :smile: yeah, I think it's quite an irrational fear, but people can be quite bitchy round my way at times, though that's assuming anyone would care! It's more when friends make comments/jokes about it that makes me reconsider how they would take it, but I reckon I've got to stop caring about what other people think...

I do want to tell my parents before a massive come-out, and I know I'm building it up and up and it will be a massive anti-climax, but it's just making myself take the jump! My best guy friend (the first person I came out to) has made me swear I won't wait until I'm getting on the train for uni in Sept/Oct!!
Reply 427
Original post by DYKWIA
Why do you feel the need to provoke me like that?


Provoke you? I said I'd originally intended to use a picture of me and my boyfriend, would that have provoked you? What if you'd seen us in the street, or in a bar, would that have been provoking you? The reason I see no need to censor or spoiler the picture is that it's nothing which you should expect to be shielded from if you were to walk down the street on, say, a sunny Sunday afternoon.

Although some provocative behaviour does tend to prompt homophobes and bigots to reveal themselves for what they are, actually that wasn't my intention with you right now. I was joining in with Jester94's joke about confining you by encircling you with gayness, but I was also illustrating a point about attraction, happiness, and the irrelevance of choice. It's a point which seems to have been lost on you.
Reply 428
Original post by Jingers
It's the same way that paedophilia is a choice.


So, not then. As with paedophilia you can choose to struggle with it but you can't choose to be or not to be it. But unlike paedophilia, with homosexuality there is no clear reason to strive for one thing or another.
Reply 429
Original post by mmmpie
So, not then. As with paedophilia you can choose to struggle with it but you can't choose to be or not to be it. But unlike paedophilia, with homosexuality there is no clear reason to strive for one thing or another.


wut
Reply 430
Original post by Bellissima
yeah, of course you don't...

and that makes it so much better :rolleyes:


I know you won't believe me when I say that I don't want to be homophobic and I don't think I am, but it's true - I really don't hate gay people.

Original post by Jester94
How does BANNING something encourage more understanding, it just breeds intolerance. And how is it better for society as a whole; do you not think that it could lead to a bitterness towards politicians perhaps, for not allowing gay marriage to be legalised? Also, you are incredibly naive if you think that not legalising gay marriage will stop gay people having sex - anyway, that is beside the point, because HIV is not caused by gay people, it's because people have unprotected sex.


Gay people get on just fine without having to marry. Are you being serious? A bitterness towards politicians? I'm bitter towards those who want gay marriage legalized. HIV occurs in gay people way more often than in straight people, at least in the US. The majority of new infections are men who have sex with men.

Oh, so you're still maintaining you're not a homophobe, yet now you also want to ban gay adoption? I'm sure you'll have a whole list of delightful reasons to quote at me as to why that is...


I don't think it's right for children, who are more likely to be bullied, more likely to have a confused childhood, more likely to be gay (or maybe metro) etc.

And since when did the universe revolve around you - did I miss that memo? Don't you realise when you trash gay people/gay marriage/gay adoption you upset LGBTQ people and their straight allies, or anyone with a sense of decency and equality? Sorry, I must have not heard that we had to stop pushing for equality because it upsets you, silly me...


You have equality. Also, it's clearly not about equality. Someone asked if I'd be okay with civil partnerships (with equal rights) and I said that I'd accept it if it was between that and gay marriage, yet even that wouldn't be enough for you people. You want blood, that's why.

Original post by mmmpie
Provoke you? I said I'd originally intended to use a picture of me and my boyfriend, would that have provoked you? What if you'd seen us in the street, or in a bar, would that have been provoking you? The reason I see no need to censor or spoiler the picture is that it's nothing which you should expect to be shielded from if you were to walk down the street on, say, a sunny Sunday afternoon.


I don't like that either. But in those cases I don't normally say anything for fear of being beaten up.

Although some provocative behaviour does tend to prompt homophobes and bigots to reveal themselves for what they are, actually that wasn't my intention with you right now. I was joining in with Jester94's joke about confining you by encircling you with gayness, but I was also illustrating a point about attraction, happiness, and the irrelevance of choice. It's a point which seems to have been lost on you.


'Encircling me in gayness'. Do you know how stupid that sounds? You just want to mentally abuse me.

Also, it's not that homosexuality is a blind choice, but it can be changed/influenced. I guess it is like an accent, you pick up your parents' accent but you can change it later if you want and it is influenced by genes (depth of your voice) and also how you are raised (accent and mannerisms).
Reply 431
Original post by Jingers
wut


Paedophiles do not, in general, have a choice about whether or not they are attracted to children. They do have a choice about whether to act on it, or whether to struggle with their attractions and try to suppress their urges.

Gay people do not, in general, have a choice about whether or not they are attracted to people of the same-sex. They do have a choice about whether to act on it, or whether to struggle with their attractions and try to suppress their urges.

Suppressing sexual attraction, through reparative therapies for example, is potentially very damaging psychologically. There is a good reason why paedophiles should try to suppress their desires - if they act on them it is directly and seriously harmful to other people, so it's the lesser of two evils. That reasoning does not apply to gay people, because there is no direct harm which arises from acting on same-sex attraction.
I feel this message should be brought to peoples attention, dickwaya told me fi he had a gay child he would force it to have therapy to become straight, when told therapy is barbaic and cruel, this was his reply, the first it refers to homosexuality:

No, there's nothing wrong with it, but I wouldn't want it on a child and it's better to be straight. It would be what the child would want and it would be in the kids best interests. I care about society and I care about our futures.

Please just admit your a homophobe now and shut up
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by mmmpie
So, not then. As with paedophilia you can choose to struggle with it but you can't choose to be or not to be it. But unlike paedophilia, with homosexuality there is no clear reason to strive for one thing or another.


I've never heard of paedophile support groups or heard of any cases of people openly struggling with it.
Original post by DYKWIA
I know you won't believe me when I say that I don't want to be homophobic and I don't think I am, but it's true - I really don't hate gay people.


i am still waiting to hear your factually and statistically backed up theory on how gay marriage being illegal keeps HIV rates down.... or can't you do that because it is in actual fact another thing to add to the "unfounded opinions that DYKWIA treats as facts" list?
Reply 435
Original post by Bellissima
i am still waiting to hear your factually and statistically backed up theory on how gay marriage being illegal keeps HIV rates down.... or can't you do that because it is in actual fact another thing to add to the "unfounded opinions that DYKWIA treats as facts" list?


Gay people will have less gay sex. Heck, some gay people may decide to live a straight lifestyle or even go through therapy and that way they are less likely to get and spread HIV, which is very expensive to treat.
Original post by alex5455
I feel this message should be brought to peoples attention, dickwaya told me fi he had a gay child he would force it to have therapy to become straight, when told therapy is barbaic and cruel, this was his reply, the first it refers to homosexuality:

No, there's nothing wrong with it, but I wouldn't want it on a child and it's better to be straight. It would be what the child would want and it would be in the kids best interests. I care about society and I care about our futures.

Please just admit your a homophobe now and shut up


with each post he makes i become more and more sure that he is just a big fat homophobe and general close minded idiot who likes to think his opinion is fact even when he can't properly defend it.
Reply 437
Original post by DYKWIA
I know you won't believe me when I say that I don't want to be homophobic and I don't think I am, but it's true - I really don't hate gay people.

Gay people get on just fine without having to marry. Are you being serious? A bitterness towards politicians? I'm bitter towards those who want gay marriage legalized. HIV occurs in gay people way more often than in straight people, at least in the US. The majority of new infections are men who have sex with men.

I don't think it's right for children, who are more likely to be bullied, more likely to have a confused childhood, more likely to be gay (or maybe metro) etc.

You have equality. Also, it's clearly not about equality. Someone asked if I'd be okay with civil partnerships (with equal rights) and I said that I'd accept it if it was between that and gay marriage, yet even that wouldn't be enough for you people. You want blood, that's why.

I don't like that either. But in those cases I don't normally say anything for fear of being beaten up.


'Encircling me in gayness'. Do you know how stupid that sounds? You just want to mentally abuse me

Also, it's not that homosexuality is a blind choice, but it can be changed/influenced. I guess it is like an accent, you pick up your parents' accent but you can change it later if you want and it is influenced by genes (depth of your voice) and also how you are raised (accent and mannerisms).


The encircling thing in gayness was merely a joke, because we are becoming increasingly exasperated with your thinly veiled homophobia, no matter how many times you deny it. The bitterness towards politicians was also not meant entirely seriously, but seeing as you are determined to be incredibly negative (I'm putting it nicely) towards them, heck why shouldn't I be?

Do you seriously not get it, or are you trolling for the sake of trolling? Civil partnerships are NOT full equality, because they are NOT marriage.

But you know what, once again I shall humour you. Why would gay adoption cause harm to the kids and why do we 'want blood' - because let's face it, the more you keep talking, the bigger a hole you dig yourself into
Original post by Bellissima
with each post he makes i become more and more sure that he is just a big fat homophobe and general close minded idiot who likes to think his opinion is fact even when he can't properly defend it.


every post he makes starts with i believe or in my opinion, its like arguing with a stuck record, hes too bigoted to change, i just wish he would learn his views arent welcome or accepted by normal decent people and shut up, and sit in his dark little closet until he can man up and come out, i think he is a repressed homosexual tbh
Original post by DYKWIA
Gay people will have less gay sex. Heck, some gay people may decide to live a straight lifestyle or even go through therapy and that way they are less likely to get and spread HIV, which is very expensive to treat.


surely your perfect american healthcare system where the state leaves the poor to die just means that its either the person or their insurers paying out, so why would it bother you how expensive it is to treat? moron:rolleyes:

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