How can people think homosexuality is a choice?

Original post by DYKWIA

and why will marriage increase the number of gay people having sex? what's your reason for that?
the only reason that would happen would be because legalising gay marriage would show people that being gay is completely acceptable and no different to being straight, and may encourage more people to come to terms with being gay and accept themselves for who they are, as there would be less hate and prejudice, so instead of hating themselves and feeling tortured and worthless and suicidal, they would come out and have relationships like any straight person. if you think that is wrong then there's no doubt about you being a homophobe (not that i had any doubts anyway) as what you are arguing against is not gay marriage but the acceptance of homosexuality in society and you are arguing FOR prejudice.

even if there were more people having gay sex due to the above, that does not mean HIV rates would increase, seeing as HIV has nothing to do with being gay, it has no affinity to gay people. a solution to high HIV rates in gay people would be education about STDs and protection.. NOT discrimination in the law.

frankly your views on this "gay therapy" is quite sickening... i REALLY REALLY REALLY do no understand how you manage to convince yourself you aren't homophobic.

also if anything, gay marriage and gay couples adopting could DECREASE the number of gay people having sex :wink:

not that that should even be an issue.

Reply 443

Original post by alex5455

every post he makes starts with i believe or in my opinion, its like arguing with a stuck record, hes too bigoted to change,

Swear to god he is just stuck on an endless cycle of homphobia :/

Reply 444

Original post by alex5455

surely your perfect american healthcare system where the state leaves the poor to die just means that its either the person or their insurers paying out, so why would it bother you how expensive it is to treat? moron :rolleyes:

Original post by Jester94

The encircling thing in gayness was merely a joke, because we are becoming increasingly exasperated with your thinly veiled homophobia, no matter how many times you deny it. The bitterness towards politicians was also not meant entirely seriously, but seeing as you are determined to be incredibly negative (I'm putting it nicely) towards them, heck why shouldn't I be?

Its hard to tell if you are serious or not.

Do you seriously not get it, or are you trolling for the sake of trolling? Civil partnerships are NOT full equality, because they are NOT marriage.

They are close enough to marriage. They are marriage in all but the name, so why can't people be happy with them? I'm not even sure I agree with civil partnerships, but I think it's preferable to gay marriage.

But you know what, once again I shall humour you. Why would gay adoption cause harm to the kids and why do we 'want blood' - because let's face it, the more you keep talking, the bigger a hole you dig yourself into

I'm sure I've said before. I think gay people want retribution for the past. As for gay adoption, what happens when they are bullied at school? what about having two same gender parents - a family needs a gender balance, which gay couples can't provide. What if the kids are raised with an encouragement for them to be homosexual?

Reply 445

Original post by alex5455

every post he makes starts with i believe or in my opinion, its like arguing with a stuck record, hes too bigoted to change, i just wish he would learn his views arent welcome or accepted by normal decent people and shut up, and sit in his dark little closet until he can man up and come out, i think he is a repressed homosexual tbh

yeah that is my second theory

Reply 446

Original post by DYKWIA

I don't like that either. But in those cases I don't normally say anything for fear of being beaten up.

I wouldn't have thought you'd be beaten up, not unless you were very aggressive yourself. Laughed at and/or told to **** off back to the 19th century seems more likely.

Original post by DYKWIA

'Encircling me in gayness'. Do you know how stupid that sounds? You just want to mentally abuse me.

Yes, I intend to torture you by exposing you to things which are a part of western culture. :rolleyes:

You have serious problems with entailment - jokes are allowed to be silly and stupid.

Original post by DYKWIA

Also, it's not that homosexuality is a blind choice, but it can be changed/influenced. I guess it is like an accent, you pick up your parents' accent but you can change it later if you want and it is influenced by genes (depth of your voice) and also how you are raised (accent and mannerisms).

This is probably the only thing you have ever said on the matter which I have ever even partially agreed with, although I'm sure we see very different ramifications. Sexuality is fluid, it has many aspects and comes from many sources. I'm not sure it can be changed or influenced in any deliberate way, but people certainly retain some capacity to change and to be flexible even about very fundamental aspects of themselves.

However, it is a fact that trying to force a change in sexuality leads, in the overwhelming majority of cases, to serious harm to the subject and no lasting change.

And anyway, the question remains, why should we want to change?

Original post by Snagprophet

I've never heard of paedophile support groups or heard of any cases of people openly struggling with it.

I have heard of support groups, but they are convened by various psych services and not widely advertised. When I worked for an LGBT charity we had a client who was receiving therapy to help him with coping strategies for paedophilia - as far as I know he never acted on it. It's understandable really that it's all kept quiet, it is possibly the most heavily stigmatised thing in our society. I think we should be lauding those people with that inclination that manage to find ways of doing no harm and still being generally healthy, productive members of society: it's no small thing that they're doing.

Reply 447

Original post by Liam_G

You're quite a strange person :smile:

And this is coming from someone who as a young child pulled one of his teeth out whilst eating a Starburst and decided to carry on eating it.

:hugs:

Now I'm curious to find out which picture you were going to post of us.

I will go now, and leave you to wage your war against homophobes :creep:

You're his boyfriend? you seem more reasonable than him tbh.

Reply 448

Original post by Liam_G

Now I'm curious to find out which picture you were going to post of us.

I will go now, and leave you to wage your war against homophobes :creep:

Ohai baby

It was going to be the one of the ones from after we went to Build-A-Bear, although I'm not sure which one.

Reply 449

hardleyouth

I'm not saying homosexuality is or isn't a choice.

But, if it ISNT a choice, surely by the same standard, being a paedophile is not a choice either? :s Or any other sexual preference that is illegal or frowned upon for that matter?

Reply 450

Original post by DYKWIA

You're his boyfriend? you seem more reasonable than him tbh.

He's the nice one, I'm more belligerent. :smile:

Reply 451

Original post by Bellissima

and why will marriage increase the number of gay people having sex? what's your reason for that?

Because gays will be more open, which will mean that more gays will get together.

the only reason that would happen would be because legalising gay marriage would show people that being gay is completely acceptable and no different to being straight, and may encourage more people to come to terms with being gay and accept themselves for who they are, as there would be less hate and prejudice, so instead of hating themselves and feeling tortured and worthless and suicidal, they would come out and have relationships like any straight person. if you think that is wrong then there's no doubt about you being a homophobe (not that i had any doubts anyway) as what you are arguing against is not gay marriage but the acceptance of homosexuality in society and you are arguing FOR prejudice.

No, I don't want prejudice, I agree that gay people should be free to do what they like in private.

frankly your views on this "gay therapy" is quite sickening... i REALLY REALLY REALLY do no understand how you manage to convince yourself you aren't homophobic.

Why should people not have the option to change their sexuality? If it is what they want and what their family wants? I know someone who became straight, I actually forget that he used to be gay most of the time - you wouldn't know it. His family and also me were very supportive towards helping him transition and now AFAIK i persuaded him and he is actually against gay marriage now.

Original post by mmmpie

I wouldn't have thought you'd be beaten up, not unless you were very aggressive yourself. Laughed at and/or told to **** off back to the 19th century seems more likely.

I was hit the last time I gave my views to two guys making out at school. Maybe some people are more grown up and might have a discussion.

Yes, I intend to torture you by exposing you to things which are a part of western culture. :rolleyes:

Militant homosexuality - it is exactly why a lot of people hold an animosity towards gay people.

Exactly, so people should be allowed to try and change.

And anyway, the question remains, why should we want to change?

You shouldn't be forced to change your sexuality, but a lot of people would be better off straight and would prefer to be straight.

Reply 452

Original post by DYKWIA

Err, because I have to pay for insurance, and if there are gay people with HIV with the same provider my costs will go up to cover them. If I was an insurance provider I'd add a premium for homosexual people, tbh.

Its hard to tell if you are serious or not.

They are close enough to marriage. They are marriage in all but the name, so why can't people be happy with them? I'm not even sure I agree with civil partnerships, but I think it's preferable to gay marriage.

I'm sure I've said before. I think gay people want retribution for the past. As for gay adoption, what happens when they are bullied at school? what about having two same gender parents - a family needs a gender balance, which gay couples can't provide. What if the kids are raised with an encouragement for them to be homosexual?

And that is why, thank f***, you are not an insurance provider. So presumably you don't have a problem with paying gor a striaght person with HIV? Even though they got exactly the same way as a gay person, by having unprotected sex??

I do have a tendency to use sarcasm, especially when talking to someone speaking completely out of their arse, so you should count yourself lucky I'm in a decent mood and that you haven't received a s***load.

Close enough does NOT mean the same, therefore it isn't fully equal, so your points on that are invalid.

Well, if we're going by that logic, what about kids from disabled couples-shouldn't they have a healthy body balance? Or kids from single race couples - shouldn't there be a racial balance? Or I know, kids from a blonde couple - that is clearly so unfair to the child, there needs to be hair colour balance so the child doesn't feel isolated if they're, I don't know, ginger!! You;re logic is atrocious, but I would expect nothing better from a trolling homophobe

And you seriously think this is about retribution? Or that we can encourage people to be gay? Jesus, you can't recruit to the LGBTQ community, we're not some kind of club!

Reply 453

Original post by DYKWIA

Because gays will be more open, which will mean that more gays will get together.

No, I don't want prejudice, I agree that gay people should be free to do what they like in private.

Why should people not have the option to change their sexuality? If it is what they want and what their family wants? I know someone who became straight, I actually forget that he used to be gay most of the time - you wouldn't know it. His family and also me were very supportive towards helping him transition and now AFAIK i persuaded him and he is actually against gay marriage now.

I was hit the last time I gave my views to two guys making out at school. Maybe some people are more grown up and might have a discussion.

Militant homosexuality - it is exactly why a lot of people hold an animosity towards gay people.
Exactly, so people should be allowed to try and change.
You shouldn't be forced to change your sexuality, but a lot of people would be better off straight and would prefer to be straight.

Better off straight? Maybe, because they wouldn't have to deal with ignorant homophobes like you, but then I'm sure you hold a vast range of equally ridiculous views on various topics, so I'm sure you find ways to discriminate against straights too.

Learn to take a joke - he is not proposing actual torture!!

Maybe you should learn to keep your backwards outdated views to yourself, so next time you won't get hit. Also, why not just, I don't know, avert your eyes? Or is that too simple??

Reply 454

Original post by mmmpie

He's the nice one, I'm more belligerent. :smile:

I've noticed. I wish you'd get off my back though.

Original post by Jester94

In the US, guys have higher car insurance prices, because we are more likely to be involved in a accident. If you get good grades then you can reduce your insurance. It's all about probabilities and if you can change your bracket then good for you. I am all for insurance companies charging higher prices to those who are more likely to use them.

I do have a tendency to use sarcasm, especially when talking to someone speaking completely out of their arse, so you should count yourself lucky I'm in a decent mood and that you haven't received a s***load.

ironic, but it's the lowest form of wit I've heard. Sarcasm isn't funny, especially from you.

Close enough does NOT mean the same, therefore it isn't fully equal, so your points on that are invalid.

But you get all the same rights. Are you for polygamous marriages, btw? Or intra-family marriage? Because there you are 'restricting rights'. In my opinion we have good reason to limit gay marriage.

Well, if we're going by that logic, what about kids from disabled couples-shouldn't they have a healthy body balance? Or kids from single race couples - shouldn't there be a racial balance? Or I know, kids from a blonde couple - that is clearly so unfair to the child, there needs to be hair colour balance so the child doesn't feel isolated if they're, I don't know, ginger!! You;re logic is atrocious, but I would expect nothing better from a trolling homophobe

Don't patronize me. Okay, I get that my views are not in line with the rest of TSR, but there's no need to resort to labeling me a homophobe.

And you seriously think this is about retribution? Or that we can encourage people to be gay? Jesus, you can't recruit to the LGBTQ community, we're not some kind of club!

Yes, I do. And stop adding letters to your 'community'.

Reply 455

Original post by Jester94

Not really, unless I have good reason. I don't like Islam, because it is an oppressive, imperialistic religion, which tries to suffocate other religions. They condone harming non-believers and on numerous occasions they have killed innocent Americans.

Maybe you should learn to keep your backwards outdated views to yourself, so next time you won't get hit. Also, why not just, I don't know, avert your eyes? Or is that too simple??

Maybe you should learn to keep your homosexuality to yourself. Also, why not just, I don't know, do it in private? Or is that too simple??

See how you sound? You are so hypocritical. You talk about how you don't want gays to be discriminated against, but have no issues with discriminating against me. Why should I keep my views 'closeted'?

Reply 456

Original post by DYKWIA

you have some SERIOUS denial going on here... can't express how perplexed i am at your inability to see the homophobia in what you write..

yes, you are a homophobic. there is absolutely no doubt. you hate and fear homosexuality, even if you do not hate and fear individual gay people. no amount of denial is going to change that fact and the only person you seem to be kidding is yourself.

you don't think gay people should be open about their orientation and should suffer in silence and struggle with themselves, even though that can lead to suicide? you think it is better that happens?

yes you do want prejudice, because without prejudice, gays would be able to be honest with themselves and others about their orientation... leading to "more gay sex" which apparently affects you and upsets you a lot (even though you don't mind what they do in private :s-smilie:

)...without prejudice and the possibility of rejection from the people around them i highly doubt there would be many who would want to "change" their orientation, just like i doubt there are many straight people who want to change their orientation.. seeing as gay people would have exactly the same rights as straight people and would live exactly the same life with the same freedoms and the ability to have children through adoption and live without fear of being attacked/rejected for something like their orientation.. the only difference would be the sex of the person they shared that life with... wtf is so bad about that?

you cannot change your orientation... you are attracted to what you are attracted to. there are degrees of attraction too. i highly doubt your gay friend was "de-gayed"... yes i'm sure you were very "supportive" (read: encouraging) of his "transition"... i doubt you (and his family) were very supportive of the fact he is gay though. i feel genuinely sorry for this man, being forced to be something he is not through social pressures... if they didn't exist, i doubt he would feel the need to try and "change" himself in this way.
as for your comment about "you can't tell he was gay" i find that very offensive, as if gay people are any different to straight people?

you cannot defend your viewpoint rationally, you contradict yourself, you make things up, you pass your unbased opinions as facts, you ignore points from other people that you can't answer and change to the next ridiculous argument. your "arguments" against gay marriage have been proven wrong many times in this thread, yet you still continue. there is something wrong with you. it's like you're adament that 2+2 = 98430983 when we can prove that that isn't the case.

Reply 457

Original post by DYKWIA

I was hit the last time I gave my views to two guys making out at school. Maybe some people are more grown up and might have a discussion.

Well you shouldn't have been hit. But can you understand why you giving your views in that context was met with some animosity?

Original post by DYKWIA

Militant homosexuality - it is exactly why a lot of people hold an animosity towards gay people.

Centuries of oppression - it's why gay people should hold an animosity towards straight people, but in general we don't.

Original post by DYKWIA

Exactly, so people should be allowed to try and change.

Tricky.

In principle an informed, consenting adult should be allowed to try and change if that's what they want - they are unhappy with their sexuality and seek to do something about it. The jargon for this is ego-dystonic sexuality.

However, consider this analogy: a person with body dysmorphia is unhappy with their physical appearance and seeks to do something about it. They may very well seek unnecessary surgeries. The appropriate response is not necessarily to perform these surgeries, but to address their unhappiness.

Similarly the appropriate response to ego-dystonic sexuality is not necessarily conversion therapy, which has a demonstrably high risk of harm to the patient, but is other forms of therapy which seek to address their unhappiness.

When we talk of change, we enter the realms of medicine - unless you believe in preying out the gay, which I know you don't - and in medicine it is recognised that what the patient wants and what the patient needs are sometimes two very different things, and it is the latter which we wish to provide for, not the former.

Original post by DYKWIA

You shouldn't be forced to change your sexuality, but a lot of people would be better off straight and would prefer to be straight.

I doubt that a lot of people would be better of straight, at least notwithstanding the 1000+ privileges that your federal government extends to married heterosexual couples and things of that nature. As for prefer, there's no shortage of LGB people on TSR and I know of precisely one who would choose to be straight - and he's so bipolar I'm not sure he'd be considered competent were it an option. I'm sure you could find some, but not many.

There was a thread, maybe six months ago, which actually polled LGB people on whether if there was a pill that they could take that would magically make them straight, with no side effects and total reliability, they would take it. The OP was rather surprised to get an all-but-unanimous no.

This goes back to my posts earlier - even if I could choose, why would I choose to be different? It's better to be happy as who you are, than to change who you are to be happy.

Reply 458

Original post by DYKWIA

I've noticed. I wish you'd get off my back though.

In the US, guys have higher car insurance prices, because we are more likely to be involved in a accident. If you get good grades then you can reduce your insurance. It's all about probabilities and if you can change your bracket then good for you. I am all for insurance companies charging higher prices to those who are more likely to use them.

ironic, but it's the lowest form of wit I've heard. Sarcasm isn't funny, especially from you.

But you get all the same rights. Are you for polygamous marriages, btw? Or intra-family marriage? Because there you are 'restricting rights'. In my opinion we have good reason to limit gay marriage.

Don't patronize me. Okay, I get that my views are not in line with the rest of TSR, but there's no need to resort to labeling me a homophobe.

Yes, I do. And stop adding letters to your 'community'.

Well that;s good, because for once I wasn't intending it to be funny.

Oh, I'm sorry, did I hurt your feelings? Let's forget how much you may have hurt mine by telling me I should never be allowed to adopt or get married, clearly doesn't mean anything. What I was merely showing you was how, applied to any other situation, comments like that would be seen as discriminatory and hateful, yet you feel it's okay to make them about people like me. What about all the children that live in single parent families, surely they're being done just as much damage, or is that acceptable because their remaining parent it straight? Or children with step parents, so they have four parents - surely that is just as confusing and encourages a lax approach to divorce?

Personally, no, I don't like the idea of polygamous marriages, but that doesn't mean I would go out of my way to say hateful things to them, unlike yourself. I see marriage as being between two people who love each other and want to commit their lives to each other, regardless of gender. So what is this good reason for limiting gay marriage then, hmm? Because your arguments about it increasing HIV rates are ridiculous, and you don't seem to have much else to go on really...

And how is it retribution? And why is it that parents who actively encourage their children to be straight can still end up having gay children - disproves your idea about us brainwashing kids.

And I'm not adding any letters, trust me. Oh, inverted speech marks to show distaste, brilliant.

Reply 459