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How can people think homosexuality is a choice?

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    (Original post by lambert1)
    Homosexuality is a sin it says so in the bible

    Lev. 20:13, 'If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them'
    The Bible also prohibits eating shellfish, wearing clothes of mixed materials, planting different crops in the same field and giving someone a proud look, but says nothing against slavery, which is appalling. Go figure.

    Also, Jesus, the saviour of humanity, says nothing against homosexuality, so if the Son of God has nothing to say against it, there's nothing wrong with being gay.

    Also also, the Catholic Church teaches that homosexual people should be accepted due the prevalent nature of homosexuals, or something similarly worded.
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    (Original post by lambert1)
    Homosexuality is a sin it says so in the bible

    Lev. 20:13, 'If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them'
    Ooohhh!!! Someone who knows their scripture!!! I'm so intimidated!

    (1) Jesus says "let he who is sinless cast the first stone"; and he never says homosexuality is bad or a sin.

    (2) In that same passage of Levitius: "If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death." WOW! I didn't know you stoned people to death! You better start following your own laws!

    (3) "Stone disobedient children" (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)

    Yeah... You clearly follow the laws of the Bible

    Oh right and this a debate forum. Quoting scripture doesn't mean anything, since you can't even prove that scripture is real :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Jester94)
    The Bible also prohibits eating shellfish, wearing clothes of mixed materials, planting different crops in the same field and giving someone a proud look, but says nothing against slavery, which is appalling. Go figure.

    Also, Jesus, the saviour of humanity, says nothing against homosexuality, so if the Son of God has nothing to say against it, there's nothing wrong with being gay.

    Also also, the Catholic Church teaches that homosexual people should be accepted due the prevalent nature of homosexuals, or something similarly worded.
    I do not wear clothes of mixed materials, plant different crops in the same field, give proud looks or eat shellfish what is your point?

    Not every word ever said by Jesus was recorded.

    Yes we should help homosexual people, their sin is not that they are homosexual for we are all born with original sin. Their sin is acting upon homosexual desires.
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    (Original post by lambert1)
    I do not wear clothes of mixed materials, plant different crops in the same field, give proud looks or eat shellfish what is your point?

    Not every word ever said by Jesus was recorded.

    Yes we should help homosexual people, their sin is not that they are homosexual for we are all born with original sin. Their sin is acting upon homosexual desires.
    Prove to me that being homosexual is a sin. And you can't use Bible passages to do so, because you can't prove that (1) God exists (2) God is all powerful, all knowing or all good (3) God cares about the everyday lives of humans (4) God is the origin of morality.

    So... Since you can't do any of that, your commentary is useless. :rolleyes:

    Here, look I can do the same thing you can: The God of Gayism (my new religion) spoke to me and said that all heterosexual people are sinful! And because my God said, it must be right!
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    Prove to me that being homosexual is a sin. And you can't use Bible passages to do so, because you can't prove that (1) God exists (2) God is all powerful, all knowing or all good (3) God cares about the everyday lives of humans (4) God is the origin of morality.

    So... Since you can't do any of that, your commentary is useless. :rolleyes:

    Here, look I can do the same thing you can: The God of Gayism (my new religion) spoke to me and said that all heterosexual people are sinful! And because my God said, it must be right!
    Prove to me that murder is bad? Oh you can't....
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    (Original post by lambert1)
    Prove to me that murder is bad? Oh you can't....
    You've clearly never taken an ethics class. :rolleyes:

    Moral relativism says murder is bad. Moral realism says murder may be bad. Utilitarianism says murder is bad. :confused: You really shouldn't try getting involved in ethics with me.

    In case you missed it, it's impossible for God to be the origin of morality, because then what created God's morality? You can't have an infinite regress of morality making morality making morality and so on.
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    (Original post by lambert1)
    I do not wear clothes of mixed materials, plant different crops in the same field, give proud looks or eat shellfish what is your point?

    Not every word ever said by Jesus was recorded.

    Yes we should help homosexual people, their sin is not that they are homosexual for we are all born with original sin. Their sin is acting upon homosexual desires.
    Maybe you don't eat shellfish or plant different crops in the same field, that is entirely possible, but I highly doubt you don't wear mixed clothes or give proud looks, seeing as everyone does.

    No, not every word he ever said was recorded, otherwise the Bible would make for an even duller read than it does now. But his disciples clearly recorded the most important and pressing parts of his teachings, so the fact that there is no mention of homosexuality shows that in Jesus's eyes it must not have been a problem.

    Actually, I was baptised, so my original sin was removed a long time ago. Please don't use that example as an argument, it is ridiculous.

    Also, your 'knowledge' of the Bible is not intimidating or going to win you any respect on the the thread. You have neither said anything about the original question of this thread or furthered any off the recent discussion on this thread, so kindly do so or leave
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    You've clearly never taken an ethics class. :rolleyes:

    Moral relativism says murder is bad. Moral realism says murder may be bad. Utilitarianism says murder is bad. :confused: You really shouldn't try getting involved in ethics with me.

    In case you missed it, it's impossible for God to be the origin of morality, because then what created God's morality? You can't have an infinite regress of morality making morality making morality and so on.
    Ethics are all subjective and determined by cultural upbringing hence that proves nothing. If you had taken that same class 50 years ago they would all be saying homosexuality is bad.

    God's morality was created by God. He is all powerful so can create and change his own morals much like we can.
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    (Original post by Jester94)
    Maybe you don't eat shellfish or plant different crops in the same field, that is entirely possible, but I highly doubt you don't wear mixed clothes or give proud looks, seeing as everyone does.

    No, not every word he ever said was recorded, otherwise the Bible would make for an even duller read than it does now. But his disciples clearly recorded the most important and pressing parts of his teachings, so the fact that there is no mention of homosexuality shows that in Jesus's eyes it must not have been a problem.

    Actually, I was baptised, so my original sin was removed a long time ago. Please don't use that example as an argument, it is ridiculous.

    Also, your 'knowledge' of the Bible is not intimidating or going to win you any respect on the the thread. You have neither said anything about the original question of this thread or furthered any off the recent discussion on this thread, so kindly do so or leave
    Okay I will reply to the original question. Homosexual desires are not a choice but homosexual acts are. You always have that choice, just like those with psychotic killer urges.
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    (Original post by lambert1)
    Ethics are all subjective and determined by cultural upbringing hence that proves nothing. If you had taken that same class 50 years ago they would all be saying homosexuality is bad.

    God's morality was created by God. He is all powerful so can create and change his own morals much like we can.
    You have no way of saying ethics are all subjective :confused: Stop making metaethical claims. You're making yourself look even more ignorant.

    God can't create his own morality... Otherwise, moral relativism is true, and I have no reason to follow God's morals. God can't create objective moral rules, otherwise, someone would have had to given God objective moral rules and so on and so forth.

    Just stop trying to argue ethics. You're making yourself look very uneducated.

    For example, Thursday night was a philosophy forum at Princeton between a Christian apologist and Gideon Rosen. The Christian apologist was from Oxford and has debated against a number of well known atheists on the subject. Gideon Rosen argued with him over suffering.

    If God is all good, God cannot allow suffering on Earth. Suffering on Earth does happen, therefore God cannot be all good, or he cannot stop the suffering (which means one of three tenants of monotheistic religious is false: God cannot be one of the following: All powerful, all good, all knowing).

    The apologist was forced to say that we suffer on Earth for rewards after death. Which, essentially meant that the Christian apologist horribly lost to Gideon Rosen; as Rosen pointed out God cannot be the source of objective moral realism, and God cannot be one of the three tenants of the monotheistic religions.

    For, if God allows suffering on Earth, he is violating his own objective moral views (which he can't even have, because he can't be the source of objective moral realism).

    I suggest moving onto a different thread, before you continue to make yourself look so completely uneducated.
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    (Original post by lambert1)
    Okay I will reply to the original question. Homosexual desires are not a choice but homosexual acts are. You always have that choice, just like those with psychotic killer urges.
    And what makes homosexual acts bad? Are they harming anyone? No.

    Killing people undesirably and drastically harms someone and is usually undeserved.

    Homosexual acts aren't undesired by the persons involved. They don't cause harm, or if they do, it's not undesired harm. And the act has no deserving properties.
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    (Original post by lambert1)
    Okay I will reply to the original question. Homosexual desires are not a choice but homosexual acts are. You always have that choice, just like those with psychotic killer urges.
    Comparing gay people with psychotic killers, nice.

    Yes, gay people choice to act on their 'urges' just as you do as a straight person. Also, just because you believe homosexuality is a sin, doesn't mean it is. I believe enslaving people is a sin, but the Bible says absolutely nothing about that, so excused me if I am not inclined to use it as the pinnacle of morality
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    What is wrong with two men or two women loving each other? Isn't that what we all search for in this world, a reciprocated love. It can come in many forms.
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    (Original post by Miracle Day)
    I just had a heated argument with some guy, and my frustration is what angered me to write this. He told me, for accepting gays and being cool with them, and treating them as I would anyone else I'm not a proper Christian - infact probably not one at all - because the Bible condemns them. He says we should all use Jesus as a model human.

    I tell him about Lady Gaga born this way and he was adamant people aren't born gay, but they're brought up fooled.

    I then ask how homosexuality can be a choice, when homophobic areas have higher suicide rates and by his logic surely they could just change back to being straight if it was a choice. He then says he wishes more homosexuals would commit suicide, and that homosexuals don't think they can turn straight.

    So I tell him, Jesus tells us to love all.. so saying that is going against Christianity etc. Then he quotes Sodomy and Gamora.

    He's obviously not just a closed minded pre-teen.. he knows his stuff. I just can't comprehend how people can believe it.

    If any of you believe it's a choice.. help me out and tell me why please.

    Edit: I'm just so angry right now.. sorry.. someone restore my faith in humanity
    His chosen version of Christianity will not let him accept homosexuality but the wonderful thing about the church is that it allows you to accept only what you believe. All of Pope John Paul's teachings show that if look inwardly and receive an answer that opposes a specific teaching then it is up to us to select a belief. However that option itself varies from person to person. 'The Holy Spirit' may be working through your inward decision, so don't let anyone else anger you over such things! To the best of my knowledge. Religious upbringing.

    I am not religious myself and I am gay. I do not believe that anyone is born with a sexuality, it is adopted in the process of growing up. My personal belief though, I have friends who agree wholly with you and with the guy you argued with. All forces come in equal and opposite pairs I guess!
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    And what makes homosexual acts bad? Are they harming anyone? No.

    Killing people undesirably and drastically harms someone and is usually undeserved.

    Homosexual acts aren't undesired by the persons involved. They don't cause harm, or if they do, it's not undesired harm. And the act has no deserving properties.
    What makes it bad is that it defiles God's creation. We were created to procreate with the opposite sex (within marriage). It may not harm anyone in a physical sense but in a symbolic way it spits on God's will and places a Satan flag on the land.

    It harms their soul and condemns them to eternity in hell. That is a lot more damage than mere murder causes.
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    (Original post by anon1212)
    What is wrong with two men or two women loving each other? Isn't that what we all search for in this world, a reciprocated love. It can come in many forms.
    The purpose of this world is to prove your worth to God in order to be accepted into his kingdom.
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    (Original post by lambert1)
    The purpose of this world is to prove your worth to God in order to be accepted into his kingdom.
    Be sure to sell all of your possessions and give all the money you make to the poor then.
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    (Original post by lambert1)
    Homosexuality is a sin it says so in the bible

    Lev. 20:13, 'If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them'
    You know, sometimes I think that verse might be misinterpreted. What if they actually meant "you shouldn't make lies to your boss to save your job in the way that you'd lie to your wife to save your marriage"?
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    (Original post by The Socktor)
    Be sure to sell all of your possessions and give all the money you make to the poor then.
    Giving for the sake of giving was never Jesus' intention. Use your money wisely so that the poor can make themselves rich rather than just wasting it on feeding them for a month.
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    (Original post by lambert1)
    What makes it bad is that it defiles God's creation. We were created to procreate with the opposite sex (within marriage). It may not harm anyone in a physical sense but in a symbolic way it spits on God's will and places a Satan flag on the land.

    It harms their soul and condemns them to eternity in hell. That is a lot more damage than mere murder causes.
    Again. You're trying to say "God said so, therefore it is"

    My God says homosexuality is the best thing ever and that we should all be homosexuals.

    Do you see how useless this argument is?

    As I've stated before, you can't use "God said so" in this argument because that assumes far too much.
Updated: February 26, 2012
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