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How can people think homosexuality is a choice?

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    So basically, you quoted a general term which could have been restricted by other rules whereas he quoted a specific verse in the Bible which specifically corroborated his point? I don't see how you can win that argument regarding Christianity's views on homosexuality.
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    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    Can you just not call me a homophobe, ok? It's not very nice.
    It's true


    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    Didn't I show you evidence just yesterday that gay marriage had led to more out of wedlock births.
    No, you didn't. You posted an article that was complete nonsense which you didn't even read to see if it was accurate. It said gay marriage caused out of wedlock births, even though women's rights and independence and so on and so forth has been going since... Oh, I don't know, the 1920s? :confused:

    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    Gay marriage has encouraged bad parenting style.
    Yet psychologists and sociologists

    (1) Claim otherwise

    (2) Claim gay parents make better parents on average

    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    We can't let this erosion of our social values continue.
    You don't get to decide what social values we ought or ought not have, especially when your 'good social values' say that homosexuals are inferior to heterosexual and don't deserve equal rights.


    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    Okay, so I've made homophobic comments before, I don't think that means I am, as a person, a homophobe though. Besides, I don't hate gays.
    You don't have to hate gays to be homophobic; but at this point you might as well hate them. You think yourself justified in saying they are inferior to you, that they don't deserve the same rights as you, that they 'harm' society and so on and so forth. That's homophobic and not far off from hate.


    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    I think being gay is not bad, but that doesn't mean we should want more homosexuality. I think it will fundamentally harm our society - as I said, harming our conservative values that have brought the USA to where it is today.
    (1) Again, allowing gay marriage doesn't necessitate more homosexuality

    (2) You think ; meanwhile psychologists and sociologists say Our research and data collection over the past decade or more leads us to the conclusion that . Who's more right here?

    (3) Why are conservative values the only good values? :confused: That's arbitrary; and actually, very wrong.

    'Conservative values' pre desegregation said that black people should sit in the back of the bus, they shouldn't go to the same schools, they shouldn't use the same water fountains. In fact, I see socially 'conservative values' as only having ever harmed society. Tell me, when have 'conservative values' ever helped society? Was is during slavery? No. During desegregation? No.

    Maybe during the women's rights movement? Oh no wait; they wanted women to continue to be inferior to men. Right.

    I love how you sit on your high horse and claim 'conservative values' are so good; yet, I see a very long history of your 'conservative values' doing horribly detrimental things to society.



    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    I don't think that. Maybe I do believe that heterosexuals are better, but I don't think you're degenerate or anything like that.
    Great. You might as well be racist. Did you know conservatives used to think white people were better than black people?

    Your ethical standpoints are clearly excellent. :rolleyes:
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    Militant homosexual values? What does that even mean?

    I've come to the conclusion that certain people haven't grasped that we're better than them. You see after centuries, even millennia, of on-off oppression, including being tortured to death, physically and later chemically castrated, shunned, ostracised, disenfranchised and vilified, we have no intention of returning the favour.

    We want to be allowed to get on with our lives, in fact we want guarantees that we can get on with our lives and so can future generations, as equals. That's it. Equal rights.

    We are going to have these things, and yes DYKWIA we will ruin your life if you stand in our way, but we don't actually want to. We don't bear you any particular ill will. It's simply that we refuse to accept our position as being inferior any longer, and society has advanced to the point where we don't have to.
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    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    I like him a lot more now he is not gay. http://narth.com/ Here you can email them and ask them about gay therapy, if you are interested. It is a good idea.
    IT DOESN'T WORK. THE APA HAS SAID NUMEROUS TIMES IT DOESN'T WORK.

    Just stop already.

    Not only that, how dare you insinuate gay people getting therapy to become straight is a "good idea".

    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    Because you teach bad values and influence children in the wrong way.
    (1) No, they don't teach 'bad' values. You have no way to prove that. The only 'bad' thing they teach is tolerance of other groups.

    (2) They don't 'influence children in the wrong way' either.

    (3) If you want to go there, you teach bad values by saying homosexuals are inferior to heterosexuals; you teach bad values by preaching intolerance (see your above comment on it being a "good idea" to have therapy to become straight); you influence children in the wrong way by saying all of the above and causing LGBT youth to think negatively of themselves, which can lead to depression and suicide.


    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    I believe differently to you. I think that instilling good values on a kid will reduce the chances of it turning out homosexual and it is better for everyone.
    Meanwhile, in the world of psychology and sociology, you're wrong and your views are said to actually be harmful to children.

    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    Also, it means you are forcing your pro-gay views on kids who don't wanna be exposed to it.
    You're forcing your anti-gay, pro-discrimination views on every single LGBT person in the US. I don't think you have a right to talk here. :rolleyes:

    Not only that, it's not 'forcing' pro-gay views on people. It helps increase tolerance; which is a good thing. Last I checked, telling people that racism is bad is a good thing; just like being homophobic (like you are) is a bad thing.


    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    You can ignore the homosexual feelings.
    You can ignore your heterosexual feelings and never have sex ever again.

    Oh, and you can never get married because, as you've said before "it's not that important anyway".

    Stop with the blatant ignorance.


    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    As soon as I state I am against gay marriage I get labeled a homophobe.
    Being for homosexual discrimination is homophobic, yes. If you don't like being labeled a homophobe, maybe you should stop being a homophobe?

    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    Neither are normal. It doesn't mean it is wrong, but it does mean it should not be encouraged.
    Didn't know you were God.

    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    Eww. See, you wanna recruit. Disgusting.
    The gay agenda is CLEARLY to recruit.

    Again with the ignorance.
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    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    Gay attitudes have increasingly since the 60's been turning against me and look, as homosexualty has become more accepted rates of marriage have fallen and out of wedlock births have increased. Gays are the cause.
    This is one of the most ignorant things you have ever posted.

    In the 1960s black people were barely allowed to be desegregated. Homosexuality was thought to still be a mental disorder.

    On what planet have you been living?

    This isn't because of gays. The fact that you even think it logical to claim that is an utter lack of education combined with your very clearly homophobic opinions.

    Out of wedlock births:

    (1) Aren't 'inherently bad', contrary to everything you seem to think

    (2) Are increasing likely to due the freedom of women, women's rights, women's independence and so on and so forth.
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    (Original post by mmmpie)
    Militant homosexual values? What does that even mean?

    I've come to the conclusion that certain people haven't grasped that we're better than them. You see after centuries, even millennia, of on-off oppression, including being tortured to death, physically and later chemically castrated, shunned, ostracised, disenfranchised and vilified, we have no intention of returning the favour.
    You are not better than us. Given the opportunity you would do the exact same thing.

    We are going to have these things, and yes DYKWIA we will ruin your life if you stand in our way, but we don't actually want to. We don't bear you any particular ill will. It's simply that we refuse to accept our position as being inferior any longer, and society has advanced to the point where we don't have to.
    That sounded threatening, you are so hypocritical. I think you're heterophobic.
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    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    You are not better than us. Given the opportunity you would do the exact same thing.
    No. We believe in equal rights and we believe what people like you do is morally wrong; thus we have no desire to ever stoop to your level and be as immoral as you are.


    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    That sounded threatening, you are so hypocritical. I think you're heterophobic.
    No, it wasn't. Stop being ignorant.
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    No, you didn't. You posted an article that was complete nonsense which you didn't even read to see if it was accurate. It said gay marriage caused out of wedlock births, even though women's rights and independence and so on and so forth has been going since... Oh, I don't know, the 1920s? :confused:
    Yet again you are ignoring the evidence because you don't agree with it.

    Yet psychologists and sociologists

    (1) Claim otherwise

    (2) Claim gay parents make better parents on average
    Again, you trying to assert you are better than everyone else.

    You don't get to decide what social values we ought or ought not have, especially when your 'good social values' say that homosexuals are inferior to heterosexual and don't deserve equal rights.
    You don't deserve gay marriage. I am opposed to it.

    (1) Again, allowing gay marriage doesn't necessitate more homosexuality

    (2) You think ; meanwhile psychologists and sociologists say Our research and data collection over the past decade or more leads us to the conclusion that . Who's more right here?

    (3) Why are conservative values the only good values? :confused: That's arbitrary; and actually, very wrong.

    'Conservative values' pre desegregation said that black people should sit in the back of the bus, they shouldn't go to the same schools, they shouldn't use the same water fountains. In fact, I see socially 'conservative values' as only having ever harmed society. Tell me, when have 'conservative values' ever helped society? Was is during slavery? No. During desegregation? No.

    Maybe during the women's rights movement? Oh no wait; they wanted women to continue to be inferior to men. Right.

    I love how you sit on your high horse and claim 'conservative values' are so good; yet, I see a very long history of your 'conservative values' doing horribly detrimental things to society.
    You are confusing views people used to have with conservative values. They aren't the same. In my opinion gay marriage is not a civil rights issue and it is offensive to racial minorities to try and treat it the same.

    Great. You might as well be racist. Did you know conservatives used to think white people were better than black people?
    People did, not just conservatives.

    (Original post by NYU2012)
    We've been over this. Your anecdotal evidence isn't going to further your point.

    You have no way to tell he's not lying.
    Maybe he is, but I prefer him now. Besides, he seems happy.

    Not only that, homosexual's actions and relationships don't, in any way, share any causal relationship with you :confused:
    I don't wanna be exposed to it. Why is that so hard to understand?
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    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    Yet again you are ignoring the evidence because you don't agree with it.
    No. I'm ignoring it because it's from the FRC, which is led by Dr. Dobson (whom the APA has, on many occasions said is clearly biased and wrong). The evidence you've presented is biased, and very wrong.

    If you were to actually look at real evidence you would see that you are very clearly wrong.


    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    Again, you trying to assert you are better than everyone else.
    No. Stop with your ignorant statements.


    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    You don't deserve gay marriage. I am opposed to it.
    I don't deserve? Gays don't deserve? Excuse you? Who made you God?

    No one cares that you're opposed to. Being opposed to it is, as I've said many times, morally wrong.


    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    You are confusing views people used to have with conservative values. They aren't the same. In my opinion gay marriage is not a civil rights issue and it is offensive to racial minorities to try and treat it the same.
    It is a civil rights issues. Do you know what civil rights are? Everything that isn't non-civil. Marriage is a civil institution. Thus, it's a civil rights issue.


    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    People did, not just conservatives.
    Then why is that people then who were considered 'liberal' were against it? :confused:


    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    Maybe he is, but I prefer him now. Besides, he seems happy.
    Seeming happy doesn't necessitate his being happy.

    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    I don't wanna be exposed to it. Why is that so hard to understand?
    Well, I'm sorry. There's not really anything you can or should do about that. I don't want to be exposed to homophobic people, but they exist. So just deal with it.
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    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    You are not better than us. Given the opportunity you would do the exact same thing.
    so how did you work this one out? or yet again just more BS? keep it coming.



    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    That sounded threatening, you are so hypocritical. I think you're heterophobic.
    no it didn't.... and don't be stupid... not all heterosexuals are homophobes like you.
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    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    You are not better than us. Given the opportunity you would do the exact same thing.
    Arbitrarily persecute others? No, we wouldn't, that's why we're better than you.

    I'm not saying gay people are better that straight people. I'm saying we're better than snivelling homophobes.

    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    That sounded threatening, you are so hypocritical. I think you're heterophobic.
    That sounded paranoid. I think you are mentally unstable.
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    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    You are not better than us. Given the opportunity you would do the exact same thing.
    Absolute nonsense. In the last 100 years, gays have been forcibly experimented on, called mentally disordered, forced out of jobs and homes, arrested, and gassed and worked to death in Auschwitz and other camps. I do not wish this kind of persecution on anyone, not even the most rabid homophobic. I wish homophobes could 'get over it' but violence is never the answer, and I have never met even one gay who felt that violence would ever change people's opinions. Clearly you fail to understand this DYKWIA



    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    That sounded threatening, you are so hypocritical. I think you're heterophobic.
    Lets think

    -I think straights deserve rights to marriage, adoption, to public recognition of their relationships
    -Straight people don't make me uncomfortable in any way, shape or form
    -Nor would I ever prefer someone if they changed orientation

    So no, evidently I am not a heterophobe

    On the other hand, you DYKWIA
    -feel uncomfortable around gays
    -prefer people who change orientation
    -feel that gays are undeserving of their civil rights

    So you irrationally feel uncomfortable around gays, don't want them near you, and yet you aren't a homophobe?? Yes you are homophobic. Being homophobic doesn't mean you support violence! It just means you have irrational negative feelings towards gays. Which you clearly do
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    I hate to belittle your efforts, guys, but DYKWIA is so clearly a troll. At least his posts and comebacks are so incredibly stupid that they're so incredibly amusing as well haha!
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    (Original post by Wickersham)
    I hate to belittle your efforts, guys, but DYKWIA is so clearly a troll. At least his posts and comebacks are so incredibly stupid that they're so incredibly amusing as well haha!
    I'm glad i amuse you, but this is a serious issue for me which affects my life and the values and morals of country I live in.
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    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    I'm glad i amuse you, but this is a serious issue for me which affects my life and the values and morals of country I live in.
    Except that it doesn't affect your life. And the values of your country are built around the idea of liberty and equality for all.
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    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    I'm glad i amuse you, but this is a serious issue for me which affects my life and the values and morals of country I live in.
    Sorry, I wasn't aware that the values and morals of the USA included hate, intolerance and discrimination.
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    (Original post by Bellissima)
    x
    (Original post by mmmpie)
    x
    (Original post by Wickersham)
    x
    (Original post by Jester94)
    x

    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    x
    (Original post by BioFurMatPhyStudent)
    x
    To all of you with "x" quoted, I took upon myself to do some research on actual statistics to check the validity of DYKWIA's claims. Unsurprisingly, the exact opposite of his claims happens to be the case. You can all see for yourselves below:


    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    I'm glad i amuse you, but this is a serious issue for me which affects my life and the values and morals of country I live in.
    DYKWIA says legalizing gay marriage will increase HIV/AIDS! BUT WAIT!

    Parentheses indicate when same-sex marriage was legalized.

    Spain (2005): http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=32&c=sp&l=en
    The Netherlands (2001): http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=32&c=nl&l=en
    Belgium (2003): http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=32&c=be&l=en
    Canada (2005): http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=32&c=ca&l=en
    Norway (2009): http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=32&c=no&l=en
    South Africa (2006): http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=32&c=sf&l=en
    Sweden (2009): http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=32&c=sw&l=en

    Look! Gay marriage had absolutely no effect on the HIV prevalence in countries that legalized gay marriage; in fact, in some places the HIV rate even went DOWN

    DYWKIA's HIV arguments: Completely invalid.

    DYWKIA want's to claim legalizing same sex marriage will lead to population decline! BUT WAIT!

    Sweden (2009): http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=21&c=sw&l=en
    South Africa (2006): http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=21&c=sf&l=en
    Norway (2009): http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=21&c=no&l=en
    Canada (2005): http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=21&c=ca&l=en
    Belgium (2003): http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=21&c=be&l=en
    Netherlands (2001): http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=21&c=nl&l=en
    Spain (2005): http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=21&c=sp&l=en

    Oh, so gay marriage doesn't lead to population decline. In fact, all of countries which have legalized gay marriage have had population increases

    Remind me DYKWIA... Where's your 'evidence' and your 'facts'? :confused:
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    x
    You're so awesome. :awesome:
    You post unbiased research!
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    DYKWIA says legalizing gay marriage will increase HIV/AIDS! BUT WAIT!

    Parentheses indicate when same-sex marriage was legalized.

    Look! Gay marriage had absolutely no effect on the HIV prevalence in countries that legalized gay marriage; in fact, in some places the HIV rate even went DOWN

    DYWKIA's HIV arguments: Completely invalid.
    http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=35&c=nl&l=en

    omg - HIV rates have skyrocketed since 2001, with the number of people living with HIV in the netherlands going from 15K to 22K! Hmm, kinda goes against what you were saying, lol. Also, the number of HIV deaths have gone up since 2001.

    http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=35&c=uk&l=en

    In the UK, civil marriage was legalized in 2004, when there were 34K people with HIV. Now there are over 85000!

    DYWKIA want's to claim legalizing same sex marriage will lead to population decline! BUT WAIT!

    Oh, so gay marriage doesn't lead to population decline. In fact, all of countries which have legalized gay marriage have had population increases

    Remind me DYKWIA... Where's your 'evidence' and your 'facts'? :confused:
    We haven't seen the full effects yet. It will take a few decades for the kids who were raised with legalized gay marriage to grow up thinking homosexuality is better than heterosexuality. I don't know how to say this without sounding homophobic, but I feel homosexuality shouldn't be taught to kids like it is equal to heterosexuality. I feel it is lying to the children if you do that. Heterosexuality should be encourage, but other sexualities should be tolerated and accepted.
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    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=35&c=nl&l=en

    omg - HIV rates have skyrocketed since 2001, with the number of people living with HIV in the netherlands going from 15K to 22K! Hmm, kinda goes against what you were saying, lol. Also, the number of HIV deaths have gone up since 2001.

    http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=35&c=uk&l=en

    In the UK, civil marriage was legalized in 2004, when there were 34K people with HIV. Now there are over 85000!
    And yet, if you look at the prevalence rate, it's steady. You're reading statistics wrong (how surprising).

    The number of people with HIV has increased because more people with HIV are surviving longer, some people are born with HIV and so on and so forth. The adult prevalence rate isn't changing. If your argument that gays will increase the amount of HIV were true, then you would have to see the prevalence rate go up; otherwise you're only seeing population increases leading to numerically more HIV cases, and medical treatments leading to longer life-spans for HIV positive people.

    If gay marriage leads to higher HIV rates, you would by definition need to see higher prevalence rate. Fact of the matter is that you don't.


    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    We haven't seen the full effects yet. It will take a few decades for the kids who were raised with legalized gay marriage to grow up thinking homosexuality is better than heterosexuality. I don't know how to say this without sounding homophobic, but I feel homosexuality shouldn't be taught to kids like it is equal to heterosexuality. I feel it is lying to the children if you do that. Heterosexuality should be encourage, but other sexualities should be tolerated and accepted.
    (1) No one has ever said that homosexuality is better that heterosexuality. And you can't 'encourage' people to be straight or gay. We've been over this many times. Do I need to link you to the APA?

    (2) But... There's no reason that homosexuality is inferior to heterosexuality, so your opinion is clearly wrong.



    We've proven all of your argument on HIV and population growth wrong. The Netherlands legalized gay marriage over a decade ago. Their country is perfectly fine. Their population is increasing (which doesn't mean anything; population has absolutely no bearing on anything, even though you wrongly think it does) and their HIV rate isn't increasing.

    So... No horrible things are happening. Gay people are getting married and that's about all that's changed. Remind me, where is your argument coming from? Where's your facts ?
Updated: February 26, 2012
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