Results are out! Find what you need...fast. Get quick advice or join the chat
Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

The Cricket Society III

Announcements Posted on
Applying to Uni? Let Universities come to you. Click here to get your perfect place 20-10-2014
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Two excellent games yesterday.

    The highlight was De Villiers smashing 25-odd runs off Steyn's last over. Brutal hitting.
    • 8 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Another win for the Netherlands- top of their division- not expected.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Heard Shahzads off to Lancs on loan until the end of the season. Good signing for us I reckon, but I still think we're short on batting power
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=153843

    Read posts 1 and 4. You just gotta love PP.
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Strangeclouds)
    pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=153843

    Read posts 1 and 4. You just gotta love PP.
    Nice didn't think anybody on this used PP.
    The guy about Yousuf is clearly sarcastic man
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheProdigy2k9)
    Nice didn't think anybody on this used PP.
    The guy about Yousuf is clearly sarcastic man
    I don't use it, just browse it from time to time.

    I know it's sarcastic, but I love that type of humour, Pakistani fans in general are brilliant. I almost pissed myself when I read that, I imagined one of my friends saying that in a deadpan voice with a straight face and had to work hard to keep my coke in my mouth, if ygm...
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Strangeclouds)
    I don't use it, just browse it from time to time.

    I know it's sarcastic, but I love that type of humour, Pakistani fans in general are brilliant. I almost pissed myself when I read that, I imagined one of my friends saying that in a deadpan voice with a straight face and had to work hard to keep my coke in my mouth, if ygm...
    LOL yeah, some of them are actually that stupid though.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by LemonLizards)
    In ODIs Dhoni's a gun. By far the best wicket keeper batsman. Great captain too.

    In T20s he's done very little.

    As I said IPL is a domestic tournament. In cricket generally we don't use domestic to rate players, because domestic cricket is weaker than internationals. Dhoni is a very good domestic T20 player, but I struggle to call him a great T20 player when he hasn't done much in internationals. He's been overshadowed by many players in his own team when he's played. Yuvraj, Raina, Gambhir being the most noteworthy of these.

    Dunno how you can accuse me of having a very narrow view. I don't see how it's "moronic" or "insulting" not to include him. If you're gonna rate a player priding his domestic success over his international success, that's a little unusual.

    actually he also won a T20 world cup in his first stint as captain - without ever having oalyed any T20 cricket. As well as IPL, Champions league etc. IS there a more successful T20 captain in terms of what hes won?
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by I-Am-A-Tripod)
    actually he also won a T20 world cup in his first stint as captain - without ever having oalyed any T20 cricket. As well as IPL, Champions league etc. IS there a more successful T20 captain in terms of what hes won?
    India's overall T20 record isn't good. He won the first and then India went downhill in the format.

    Younis Khan and Paul Collingwood have both won the World T20 cup too. And probably have better ratio of success over the time they have been captain. Yet Neither of these guys would be picked for the best T20 team.

    As I said before I don't take into account domestic tournaments such as the IPL. The standard of cricket there is lower than international. We don't take first class success as a basis of rating a cricket player in tests so I don't know why we should take IPL as a way of rating T20. There are other players who do very well in these domestic leagues but are not great players. Shoaib Malik for example does extremely well in the pakistani T20 competitions. His team Sialkot Stallions if I'm right has either the first or second best win/ loss ratio in the world. He's won like 6 or 7 titles with that team. Does not make him the best T20 player in the world though, because in internationals he's not that great.

    Same goes with Champions league. And honestly although this is a side note, the IPL teams are a lot stronger than the other teams in the tournament. Especially since a lot of the foreign players chose to represent their IPL team over their domestic team anyway (which means their domestic teams are at half strength).

    Dhoni isn't a bad T20 player, but he's not an amazing one. In my opinion. If others think he's amazing, that's fine with me. Each to their own.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by LemonLizards)
    India's overall T20 record isn't good. He won the first and then India went downhill in the format.

    Younis Khan and Paul Collingwood have both won the World T20 cup too. And probably have better ratio of success over the time they have been captain. Yet Neither of these guys would be picked for the best T20 team.

    As I said before I don't take into account domestic tournaments such as the IPL. The standard of cricket there is lower than international. We don't take first class success as a basis of rating a cricket player in tests so I don't know why we should take IPL as a way of rating T20. There are other players who do very well in these domestic leagues but are not great players. Shoaib Malik for example does extremely well in the pakistani T20 competitions. His team Sialkot Stallions if I'm right has either the first or second best win/ loss ratio in the world. He's won like 6 or 7 titles with that team. Does not make him the best T20 player in the world though, because in internationals he's not that great.

    Same goes with Champions league. And honestly although this is a side note, the IPL teams are a lot stronger than the other teams in the tournament. Especially since a lot of the foreign players chose to represent their IPL team over their domestic team anyway (which means their domestic teams are at half strength).

    Dhoni isn't a bad T20 player, but he's not an amazing one. In my opinion. If others think he's amazing, that's fine with me. Each to their own.
    i think you miss the point - your suggesstion that dhoni has done nothin internationally as captain is clearly disproved, given he was the first captain to win any T20 honours. He has also won the champions league which is effectively the best of the best in the world of club T20.
    On the basis of simply playing ability alone, he is is in a class above khan or collingwood.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by I-Am-A-Tripod)
    i think you miss the point - your suggesstion that dhoni has done nothin internationally as captain is clearly disproved, given he was the first captain to win any T20 honours. He has also won the champions league which is effectively the best of the best in the world of club T20.
    On the basis of simply playing ability alone, he is is in a class above khan or collingwood.
    I don't see Champions league as international competition. It's a contest between domestic teams. And in my opinion the competition is lower than IPL. Sure most of the IPL teams would rather win the IPL than the champions league.

    By what I meant is he's an average player. More based on his performance in T20. I do realise he did successfully captain and win a T20 world cup. But others have done that, and India have been very poor in the last two editions of the world cup. That first T20 world cup was around 5 years ago if I'm right. That's some time ago. If you'd asked me after the first world T20 cup, I might have had dhoni in the team. But ever since that first T20 world cup, India's win/loss record has been very poor, especially in the next two T20 world cups.

    My point is do I think Dhoni is a great international T20 player? I do not. It certainly isn't mad or a disgrace (put across by other posters here) to not include him in my best T20 team. And I'm not alone here, several posters on here agree with me in this case.
    • 8 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    First day of the cricket season tomorrow and the weather is looking good! Who's excited?
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    My team's season started last week and that game was cancelled due to the rain. You would think that tomorrow's game would definitely be on based on the weather, however it got cancelled as well. Apparently, the rain made the outfield too soft to cut :confused:. This weather is so frustrating.
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by I-Am-A-Tripod)
    i think you miss the point - your suggesstion that dhoni has done nothin internationally as captain is clearly disproved, given he was the first captain to win any T20 honours. He has also won the champions league which is effectively the best of the best in the world of club T20.
    On the basis of simply playing ability alone, he is is in a class above khan or collingwood.
    I would have thought IPL standard to be at least as high at international, at least in the top teams.

    Let's face it 2020 is a lot of luck though, isn't it.

    Team 1:
    Sehwag
    Rahane
    Gayle
    Kallis
    Pietersen
    Yuvraj (I hear he is getting better, that's great news)
    Dhoni (wk) (c)
    Broad
    Swann
    Steyn
    Zaheer

    Team 2:
    Tendulkar
    Warner
    De Villiers
    Sangakkara (wk)
    Pollard
    Watson (c)
    Taylor
    Afridi
    Ajmal
    Lee
    Tait

    Those two teams play, the outcome in 2020 might as well be the toss of a coin.

    I suppose you might be able to argue the same for test cricket. But I think there is a big difference. Test cricket will expose the weaknesses even of the best players, Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Muralitharan, McGrath, Warne, but 2020 doesn't do that at all. You could play 1000 matches and you just know the difference would not be that great. Test cricket would find a difference wherever it may be.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Raiden10)
    I would have thought IPL standard to be at least as high at international, at least in the top teams.

    .
    well that was the point wasnt it

    and the champions league is again an acertation of who is the best T20 side in the world. The other guy attempted to suggest that Dhoni as captain had never acheived anything in T20 outside of domestic - so was ignorant of the World cup and Champions league.

    Equally dhoni is still one of the best limited overs batsmen there is, in terms of regualr six hitting alone he is in the top league, alongside the likes of gayle, sehwag, KP etc
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Raiden10)
    I would have thought IPL standard to be at least as high at international, at least in the top teams.

    Let's face it 2020 is a lot of luck though, isn't it.
    It really ain't. Firstly IPL is made up of mostly domestic players. The rule is I think each team has to be composed of 7 or so indian players (I apologise if I've got the number wrong). But generally this means that there are a lot of indian players in each team which aren't international standard. Which is why you notice a lot of the international players and the indian players who regularly play internationals (e.g. Raina, Gambhir, Dhoni etc.) outshining their team mates and usually being the difference between winning and losing.

    Secondly a team which has players put together like that isn't going to gel as well as a seasoned international team. Nor do the players themselves have something to fight for as much as their country.

    The really good T20 batsmen internationally e.g. Raina, Gambhir, do well in the IPl as well as internationals. But there are plenty of guys that do well in the IPl but are a flop in international T20 (e.g. Pollard). This suggests that there is a leap in quality in IPL.

    Lastly the IPL isn't balanced. The batsmen are a lot stronger than the bowlers. You'd expect this in India. Gambhir, Raina, Yuvraj etc., India in general have the best T20 batsmen in the world. But they don't have the best T20 bowlers in the world. And that's letting them down in this format A lot of the domestic indian bowlers and bowlers the batsmen face are not international quality. There are exceptions e.g. malinga, steyn, zaheer, murali etc. But not all of them. Contrast this to the England attack for example, and you're facing an all round strong bowling attack. No real weak links.

    If the best IPL team were to play the top T20 international team, England currently, reckon they'd get beaten. In fact if the top IPL team played the national Indian team (and let's pretend somehow the indian players that feature on both teams somehow there are two of them, each playing for one of those teams), India would win over the IPL team.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Raiden10)
    I would have thought IPL standard to be at least as high at international, at least in the top teams.

    Let's face it 2020 is a lot of luck though, isn't it.

    Team 1:
    Sehwag
    Rahane
    Gayle
    Kallis
    Pietersen
    Yuvraj (I hear he is getting better, that's great news)
    Dhoni (wk) (c)
    Broad
    Swann
    Steyn
    Zaheer

    Team 2:
    Tendulkar
    Warner
    De Villiers
    Sangakkara (wk)
    Pollard
    Watson (c)
    Taylor
    Afridi
    Ajmal
    Lee
    Tait

    Those two teams play, the outcome in 2020 might as well be the toss of a coin.

    I suppose you might be able to argue the same for test cricket. But I think there is a big difference. Test cricket will expose the weaknesses even of the best players, Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Muralitharan, McGrath, Warne, but 2020 doesn't do that at all. You could play 1000 matches and you just know the difference would not be that great. Test cricket would find a difference wherever it may be.

    thats becuase you have taken 22 players and mixed them to make 2 teams. It will always be a close match if you do that, same principle would apply to a 50 over match. IF i make a best of XI it will be, based in India,

    Sehwag
    Gayle
    KP/Yuvraj
    Rahane/Raina
    Kallis
    ABDV
    Dhoni (wk)
    Ashwin
    Malinga
    Murali
    Steyn

    should beat most teams - but in short format, there is always a chance for an upset.

    in terms of Test cricket, it is far more depndant on conditions you play in.
    • 8 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by I-Am-A-Tripod)
    thats becuase you have taken 22 players and mixed them to make 2 teams. It will always be a close match if you do that, same principle would apply to a 50 over match. IF i make a best of XI it will be, based in India,

    Sehwag
    Gayle
    KP/Yuvraj
    Rahane/Raina
    Kallis
    ABDV
    Dhoni (wk)
    Ashwin
    Malinga
    Murali
    Steyn

    should beat most teams - but in short format, there is always a chance for an upset.

    in terms of Test cricket, it is far more depndant on conditions you play in.
    Good team, here's mine

    1. Sehwag
    2. Gayle
    3. Rahane
    4. Kevin Peterson
    5. AB Devilliers (wkt)
    6. Kallis
    7.Dravid (quite simply can't find anywhere else to put him!)
    8. Narine
    9. Murali
    10.Malinga
    11. Steyn/ M. Morkel
    • 6 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    The way WI are playing in the warm up game, they are going to get swept aside by the English bowlers. Really hope the top 3 can get some form and not gift their wickets away.
    • 8 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by shyamshah)
    The way WI are playing in the warm up game, they are going to get swept aside by the English bowlers. Really hope the top 3 can get some form and not gift their wickets away.
    English conditions are VERY different from WI conditions, so I'm hoping that they'll acclimatise to some degree.

    Doesn't take away from the fact that they're performing like crap though

Reply

Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?
  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?
  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. By joining you agree to our Ts and Cs, privacy policy and site rules

  2. Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: October 22, 2014
New on TSR

A-level results day

Is it about making your parents proud?

Article updates
Useful resources

Quick link:

Unanswered sport threads

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups
Reputation gems:
You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.