[tif49]

(Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
The main difference between the teacher and God is that the teacher can be wrong. He may have good reason to believe that his student is going to pass, but it is still possible the student won't pass - there is the chance that the student might choke on the exam. Other than this (if we assume the teacher knows for sure that the student will pass), there is the implication that teachers aren't the ones that award passes in courses to students, it's an external marker. So the teacher needs some kind of proof that he will pass other than "I think he will."

God on the other hand really knows without any other possibility of any other outcome happening, with no one else he needs to provide proof to.

If, however, you want to argue away the assumption that there is an external exam board. Then consider this:
How would the teacher know the student will pass the exam? The only possible way would be from talking with the student to see if he knows everything necessary; is this talk then not the exact same as an exam? Providing evidence to the person that you know everything you need to to pass?

There is no way for a teacher to know for sure that a student will pass an exam. The god suggested by Abrahamic religions is completely different.

Like I said before, God may know what's going to happen, but it still has to happen doesn't it? Otherwise under your logic, the teacher will say to the student you've passed now you can go to uni without even taking the exam or even proving yourself.

God might know. But you don't. You still have to prove it to yourself as well. It still has to happen regardless of who knows the outcome.

Even if God knows for certain the result, the exam still has to happen. If there was no exam, how would God know the result? Tell me that. (Life being the exam).

[Hype en Ecosse]

(Original post by tif49)
Like I said before, God may know what's going to happen, but it still has to happen doesn't it? Otherwise under your logic, the teacher will say to the student you've passed now you can go to uni without even taking the exam or even proving yourself.

God might know. But you don't. You still have to prove it to yourself as well. It still has to happen regardless of who knows the outcome.

Even if God knows for certain the result, the exam still has to happen. If there was no exam, how would God know the result? Tell me that. (Life being the exam).

I've already addressed the issue of why a teacher can't do that but God can - in my previous post. If a teacher had the capability to know beyond any doubt and didn't have to prove anything to anyone else, the student wouldn't have to sit an exam.

I don't believe in the supernatural, so of course, I don't think it's possible for God to know the result. But in the Qur'an it explicitly states that Allah is all-knowing. He knows the result by virtue of his omniscience. See al-Ankabut verse 6:
"God's appointed time is bound to come; he is the All-Hearing and All-Knowing"

I understand this surah is all about emphasising how believers will have their faith tested through suffering and people trying to stray them from the path, but if this verse is to be hold true, God can already mark out "which are the believers and which are the hypocrites" from knowing the hearts of men due to his omniscience.

al-Imran, 166-167 emphasises this when it says:
"They say with their tongues what is not in their hearts. God knows what they conceal."

Just shortly before this verse, Muslims were ordered to fight for God and it is through this that He would know which of them were true believers. But if he can see into the hearts of men as was just stated, why is this test needed? Is this because God is, in fact, not 'All-Hearing and All-Knowing' and he requires that men being 'closer to disbelief than faith' needs to make itself clearly shown in their hearts for Him to be able to see it?

[tif49]

(Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
I've already addressed the issue of why a teacher can't do that but God can - in my previous post. If a teacher had the capability to know beyond any doubt and didn't have to prove anything to anyone else, the student wouldn't have to sit an exam.

I don't believe in the supernatural, so of course, I don't think it's possible for God to know the result. But in the Qur'an it explicitly states that Allah is all-knowing. He knows the result by virtue of his omniscience. See al-Ankabut verse 6:
"God's appointed time is bound to come; he is the All-Hearing and All-Knowing"

I understand this surah is all about emphasising how believers will have their faith tested through suffering and people trying to stray them from the path, but if this verse is to be hold true, God can already mark out "which are the believers and which are the hypocrites" from knowing the hearts of men due to his omniscience.

al-Imran, 166-167 emphasises this when it says:
"They say with their tongues what is not in their hearts. God knows what they conceal."

Just shortly before this verse, Muslims were ordered to fight for God and it is through this that He would know which of them were true believers. But if he can see into the hearts of men as was just stated, why is this test needed? Is this because God is, in fact, not 'All-Hearing and All-Knowing' and he requires that men being 'closer to disbelief than faith' needs to make itself clearly shown in their hearts for Him to be able to see it?

God only knows what is going to happen because it is going to happen. If there was no test, no life then how could He know?

God already knows what's in our hearts but why does that mean we don't have to physically show it? Only by our good actions can we be worthy of reward, by making an effort. Otherwise I might have all the good in my heart and all the faith but that means nothing if I don't put it into use by my good actions and deeds.

God knows what is in our hearts, but that's not what earns us reward or pleasure of God. It is only our actions that gain us reward and pleasure of God.

[Hype en Ecosse]

(Original post by tif49)
God only knows what is going to happen because it is going to happen. If there was no test, no life then how could He know?

God already knows what's in our hearts but why does that mean we don't have to physically show it? Only by our good actions can we be worthy of reward, by making an effort. Otherwise I might have all the good in my heart and all the faith but that means nothing if I don't put it into use by my good actions and deeds.

God knows what is in our hearts, but that's not what earns us reward or pleasure of God. It is only our actions that gain us reward and pleasure of God.

You make a good point, but the actions are only necessary because God sets the test. He knows those who will do the actions, why wouldn't that be enough? Would those who physically aren't able to do anything but have all the good in the world be punished?

[tif49]

(Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
You make a good point, but the actions are only necessary because God sets the test. He knows those who will do the actions, why wouldn't that be enough? Would those who physically aren't able to do anything but have all the good in the world be punished?

As Christians say, 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'. Meaning that you can have all the good in the world but do nothing, well then you've just wasted all your God given abilities. What's the point in having good intentions when you don't actually do anything.

God only knows who will do the actions, because of the test. If there was no test, there would be no actions and no way of striving to gain God's pleasure.

Religion teaches us that those who are physically unable to do anything, God will grant them new opportunities and judge them according to their abilities, they won't be punished unless they actually did bad deeds.

[krannock]

(Original post by Id and Ego seek)
Then why hasn't he answered my little brother's prayers for helping those children being sold as prostitutes in the Philippines?

Surely this is just bringing up the discussion of why God allows suffering, praying to stop world suffering isn't going to stop it because we are living in a cursed world due to the actions of the garden of eden - however thats not to say this all pins down to the first sin, as suffering and evil has come about from a network of sins that we all have committed through the ages. What I'm trying to get at really is, suffering isn't Gods fault, it's our doing and its impossible for us to expect God to suddenly remove our punishment by praying for it - however thats not to say he isn't still helping those children who have prayed to him and asked them for help.