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Reply 260
Original post by alex5455
you see now why america is hated in the rest of the world? ignorant self inflated egotistical bigots like this creature who serves no purpose on earth


Highlighting the typical arrogance that is in the UK and europe. Your behavior sickens me.
Original post by DYKWIA
He has an irrational hatred of the USA.


I'm not sure you're helping, to be honest. :smile: This fight looks very much like a two-way street, and (as a newcomer who really hasn't been following the battle) you're coming across as strong on opinion but a little shy on careful consideration. You may have some really interesting and valid points to make, but at the moment you're just in a flame war. Maybe fewer matches and more reflection?

Original post by DYKWIA
Not really, it's just that overall the US education system is well ranked (even if people moan about it)


I do think we know less about history than we should. I've been to "good" schools and have always been a good student, but there's a lot about history I don't know (but wish I knew). I was part of an exchange program between the US and France, and the very lovely French family I stayed with knew more about early American history than I did.

Original post by DYKWIA

Germany were building nuclear weapons and if it wasn't for the USA the allies would have lost. This is a fact. And the reason we didn't get involved is because no one wanted to waste American lives defending the imperialism of europe. It wasn't for selfish or 'isolationist' reasons, it was because europe, as usual, were fighting with each other over land.


Saying things like "This is a fact" isn't an argument - it's just a statement of strongly held beliefs. If you'd like to make your case you're of course welcome to do so, but unfortunately the force of your convictions doesn't constitute an argument. Germany was indeed attempting to build nuclear weapons, which was the original impetus for American involvement in nuclear weapons, but the evidence suggests that Germany was nowhere near producing a viable bomb. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/military/nazis-and-the-bomb.html.

Can you possibly back up this assertion that WWII was about "defending the imperialism of Europe"? Europe does have a history of imperialism, but I don't see how that was at the heart of the conflict. If it's really just "Europe fighting over land", are you suggesting that it would have been fine if Hitler managed to get the Europe / parts of Asia / North Africa party he was after? And by party, I mean irrational, dogmatic mass murder. What about Mussolini or Franco? If one of them had tried to invade the US, would you have been okay with other countries saying it's "just North Americans fighting over land", so not to worry?

Original post by DYKWIA
Would you rather we had socialist healthcare? Canadian and european healthcare have some of the worst cancer records in the world.


Maybe? I don't fundamentally have an issue with socialism. A lot of people seem to conflate it with communism, though the two really aren't the same. Somehow socialist has become a dirty word in American politics, but I don't see why we should mind socialist healthcare. It's true that, historically speaking, governments are fundamentally untrustworthy (as a conservative might say) - but it's also true that, historically speaking, corporations are fundamentally untrustworthy (as a liberal might say). It's a rock and a hard place; whether you trust public or private entities seems to depend almost entirely on your parents' political beliefs, not rational consideration. Why should socialist healthcare be any worse than privatized healthcare? I don't know where you're getting your cancer data, but the time I spent quickly looking up statistics for cancer survival rates in the US and Canada showed no significant difference between countries. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1380891/?tool=pmcentrez The World Health Organization ranks American medical care at 37th in the world http://www.who.int/whr/2000/en/whr00_en.pdf, whereas the two countries that top the list (France and Italy) have more "socialized" healthcare.

Original post by DYKWIA
He was not stupid, and actually he was a good speaker. Have you ever actually listened to him? He seems sincere and he actually cared about our country, unlike our current libtarded moonbat of a president.


I'm not totally sure how to respond to this. You again have a belief, not an argument. I have indeed listened to George W. Bush speak on numerous occasions, and as I said my best guess is that he's too simple to have a good grasp on the consequences on his actions, but not fundamentally evil. I agree with you that he does seem reasonably sincere - I just feel that he's maybe not the best person to be making decisions on complex global issues. He certainly tried to paint himself as "one of the people", but why would you want one of the people as president? Wouldn't you want someone extraordinary? As to your claim that Obama is a "libtarded moonbat"... unless you're planning on explaining what you mean (or what a moonbat is?), I'm just going to leave that kind of silliness alone. (Other kinds of silliness, such as bubbles, are more than welcome.:bubbles:)

Original post by DYKWIA
Umm, Hollywood take some artistic license when it comes to representing reality. Why shouldn't they? It's entertainment. If you get your history from movies you are doing something wrong.


You're absolutely right that Hollywood takes artistic liberties when writing stories, and there's nothing wrong with that. I suspect that, however, that the complaint lies more in a consistent bias. British characters in American media are regularly portrayed as ridiculous or villainous. I've noticed a similar bias against Americans in British media, which I also find frustrating. You're really not helping my case, however, that Americans are (in general) not nearly as irrational as they're portrayed to be.

Are you just sitting at home writing the most inflammatory things you can think of and then giggling when people get upset?:troll:
Original post by alex5455
you see now why america is hated in the rest of the world? ignorant self inflated egotistical bigots like this creature who serves no purpose on earth


I certainly see why these particular Americans are frustrating you, but I'm going to be so bold as to suggest that two people shouldn't make you hate an entire nation. I don't know what your other interactions in the US were like, so maybe there are other people who have frustrated you, but you might consider that America is a large nation with many different people. These Americans are frustrating to me as well.

Sorry if this is a bit of a rant, but it's quite depressing to be instantly disliked for my country of origin. I would like to think I'm a fairly reasonable person, and (having spent the vast majority of my life in the states) I feel that I'm more or less a typical American. And yet... so much hate.
Original post by Sharri5
You seem to be under the uninformed impression that the UK is a class society. In fact, it is quite the opposite. The UK and europe have gone the way of **** in a toilet. You need to educate yourself as soon as possible because your ignorance is showing. I recommend beginning with The Evil Empire and you will see the rapes that the UK has committed time and time again. The amount of blood that is on their hands is shocking and disgusting. Racism is tolerated in the UK and is actually encouraged. Fact: The british still long for the days of colonialism. It sickens me that they cannot just except their fate and are intent to reach out and grab whoever they can take with them. It is a sign of weakness surely. The UK never was nor never will be a modern society.


At this point, I'm just kind of getting a kick out of you. Are you serious? I spent (as you can perhaps see) quite a while writing several pretty thorough posts. You condense this to "blah blah blah", and then tell me to "educate yourself as soon as possible because your ignorance is showing". :s-smilie:

In among all that "blah", I pointed out that "pretty much every country has a really nasty, dark side to it... it's people who are fundamentally disappointing". I think you'll find that every country that has risen to a position of significant power has used that power to do incredibly sad, stupid, cruel things.

What madness has the world come to when I've started quoting myself? With ellipses no less?
Original post by Sharri5
Highlighting the typical arrogance that is in the UK and europe. Your behavior sickens me.


and you sicken me, with your twisted views, that book you recommend, evil empire is one of the most factually incorrect books ever, if you hate the uk so much, stop posting on our forum
Original post by teamnoether
I certainly see why these particular Americans are frustrating you, but I'm going to be so bold as to suggest that two people shouldn't make you hate an entire nation. I don't know what your other interactions in the US were like, so maybe there are other people who have frustrated you, but you might consider that America is a large nation with many different people. These Americans are frustrating to me as well.

Sorry if this is a bit of a rant, but it's quite depressing to be instantly disliked for my country of origin. I would like to think I'm a fairly reasonable person, and (having spent the vast majority of my life in the states) I feel that I'm more or less a typical American. And yet... so much hate.


dont inflate there importance, sharri is an ill informed nationalistic racist, and dykwia is a homophobic ill informed over patriotic nationalist (who only recently learned that puerto rico exists :facepalm:, quite frankly neither of these people should have been unbanned from this site, shows how tolerant the mods are.

i have spent months in america, in that time, 80%+ of the people i met were like the two idiots attempting to argue with me above, unfortunately for you, people will make assumptions when they learn your american and people will dislike you for it, and you know the sort of people to blame, however bear in mind, once you prove your reasonable and not a "USAUSAUSA RULE DA WORLD" type like the two above, people wont mind, as long as you dont pontificate about why america is the best place in the world, it isnt
Reply 266
Original post by teamnoether
I do think we know less about history than we should. I've been to "good" schools and have always been a good student, but there's a lot about history I don't know (but wish I knew). I was part of an exchange program between the US and France, and the very lovely French family I stayed with knew more about early American history than I did.


I avoided history as much as possible, because I have little interest in it. That said, I know enough American history and enough world history to talk about it.

Saying things like "This is a fact" isn't an argument - it's just a statement of strongly held beliefs. If you'd like to make your case you're of course welcome to do so, but unfortunately the force of your convictions doesn't constitute an argument. Germany was indeed attempting to build nuclear weapons, which was the original impetus for American involvement in nuclear weapons, but the evidence suggests that Germany was nowhere near producing a viable bomb. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/military/nazis-and-the-bomb.html.


Without the US in the war the allies would have fought much longer and it is a real possibility that Germany would have developed nuclear weapons and would have bombed britain and taken it over along with the rest of europe.

Can you possibly back up this assertion that WWII was about "defending the imperialism of Europe"? Europe does have a history of imperialism, but I don't see how that was at the heart of the conflict. If it's really just "Europe fighting over land", are you suggesting that it would have been fine if Hitler managed to get the Europe / parts of Asia / North Africa party he was after? And by party, I mean irrational, dogmatic mass murder. What about Mussolini or Franco? If one of them had tried to invade the US, would you have been okay with other countries saying it's "just North Americans fighting over land", so not to worry?


That is exactly what WWII was about. It was imperialistic european nations fighting over land. We got involved once it became clear that the nazis and the Japanese was were evil and needed to be stopped. The US is fundamentally against imperialism and should not try and prop up europe's imperial ambitions. Also, the US was nowhere near being invaded and neither the japanese nor the nazis would have been able to invade.

Maybe? I don't fundamentally have an issue with socialism. A lot of people seem to conflate it with communism, though the two really aren't the same. Somehow socialist has become a dirty word in American politics, but I don't see why we should mind socialist healthcare. It's true that, historically speaking, governments are fundamentally untrustworthy (as a conservative might say) - but it's also true that, historically speaking, corporations are fundamentally untrustworthy (as a liberal might say). It's a rock and a hard place; whether you trust public or private entities seems to depend almost entirely on your parents' political beliefs, not rational consideration. Why should socialist healthcare be any worse than privatized healthcare? I don't know where you're getting your cancer data, but the time I spent quickly looking up statistics for cancer survival rates in the US and Canada showed no significant difference between countries. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1380891/?tool=pmcentrez The World Health Organization ranks American medical care at 37th in the world http://www.who.int/whr/2000/en/whr00_en.pdf, whereas the two countries that top the list (France and Italy) have more "socialized" healthcare.


Socialism is about taking away our economic and social freedoms and putting them in the hands of the government. My parents are actually liberal and vote democrat. I love them both, but their political ideologies are naive.

Also, the WHO dislikes US healthcare and this is a well known fact, they use the fact we spend a lot of money on healthcare as a way of stating that our healthcare system is bad.

I have indeed listened to George W. Bush speak on numerous occasions, and as I said my best guess is that he's too simple to have a good grasp on the consequences on his actions, but not fundamentally evil. I agree with you that he does seem reasonably sincere - I just feel that he's maybe not the best person to be making decisions on complex global issues. He certainly tried to paint himself as "one of the people", but why would you want one of the people as president? Wouldn't you want someone extraordinary?


Yes, I'd like another Reagan. Bush was a cool guy, the sort of person I could see being friends with and while people always portray him as stupid he actually wasn't. He was a good speaker and besides, he had support of the people. After all, we voted for him - twice. He wasn't that bad, and had the country's best interests at heart.

As to your claim that Obama is a "libtarded moonbat"... unless you're planning on explaining what you mean (or what a moonbat is?), I'm just going to leave that kind of silliness alone. (Other kinds of silliness, such as bubbles, are more than welcome.:bubbles:)


Look up the word. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonbat. It refers to liberals like you. He absolutely is the worst president we have ever had. He has destroyed our economy, hates Americans and has chummed up with the likes of the chinese and south americans and pushed away our allies, such as Israel and britain too.

I dislike bubbles.

Original post by alex5455
dont inflate there importance, sharri is an ill informed nationalistic racist, and dykwia is a homophobic ill informed over patriotic nationalist (who only recently learned that puerto rico exists :facepalm:, quite frankly neither of these people should have been unbanned from this site, shows how tolerant the mods are.


Hey, don't go talking about me behind my back like that. That's an offensive way to describe me. Also, I knew of puerto rico, just didn't know it was a part of the US -kinda.

i have spent months in america, in that time, 80%+ of the people i met were like the two idiots attempting to argue with me above, unfortunately for you, people will make assumptions when they learn your american and people will dislike you for it, and you know the sort of people to blame, however bear in mind, once you prove your reasonable and not a "USAUSAUSA RULE DA WORLD" type like the two above, people wont mind, as long as you dont pontificate about why america is the best place in the world, it isnt


I am not the kind of person that goes around blindly stating the USA is the best. Yes, IMO the US is the best country in the world, but there is evidence to support this claim - we have the highest GDP, one of the highest HDI's, the best colleges etc.
Original post by DYKWIA
I avoided history as much as possible, because I have little interest in it. That said, I know enough American history and enough world history to talk about it.



Without the US in the war the allies would have fought much longer and it is a real possibility that Germany would have developed nuclear weapons and would have bombed britain and taken it over along with the rest of europe.



That is exactly what WWII was about. It was imperialistic european nations fighting over land. We got involved once it became clear that the nazis and the Japanese was were evil and needed to be stopped. The US is fundamentally against imperialism and should not try and prop up europe's imperial ambitions. Also, the US was nowhere near being invaded and neither the japanese nor the nazis would have been able to invade.



Socialism is about taking away our economic and social freedoms and putting them in the hands of the government. My parents are actually liberal and vote democrat. I love them both, but their political ideologies are naive.

Also, the WHO dislikes US healthcare and this is a well known fact, they use the fact we spend a lot of money on healthcare as a way of stating that our healthcare system is bad.



Yes, I'd like another Reagan. Bush was a cool guy, the sort of person I could see being friends with and while people always portray him as stupid he actually wasn't. He was a good speaker and besides, he had support of the people. After all, we voted for him - twice. He wasn't that bad, and had the country's best interests at heart.



Look up the word. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonbat. It refers to liberals like you. He absolutely is the worst president we have ever had. He has destroyed our economy, hates Americans and has chummed up with the likes of the chinese and south americans and pushed away our allies, such as Israel and britain too.

I dislike bubbles.



Hey, don't go talking about me behind my back like that. That's an offensive way to describe me. Also, I knew of puerto rico, just didn't know it was a part of the US -kinda.



I am not the kind of person that goes around blindly stating the USA is the best. Yes, IMO the US is the best country in the world, but there is evidence to support this claim - we have the highest GDP, one of the highest HDI's, the best colleges etc.


just go find a hole and stay there, stop communicating with me, im sick to death of your bigoted views and homophobia, america is not a good place, and your views are evil deal with it
Original post by DYKWIA
I avoided history as much as possible, because I have little interest in it. That said, I know enough American history and enough world history to talk about it.

Without the US in the war the allies would have fought much longer and it is a real possibility that Germany would have developed nuclear weapons and would have bombed britain and taken it over along with the rest of europe.

That is exactly what WWII was about. It was imperialistic european nations fighting over land. We got involved once it became clear that the nazis and the Japanese was were evil and needed to be stopped. The US is fundamentally against imperialism and should not try and prop up europe's imperial ambitions. Also, the US was nowhere near being invaded and neither the japanese nor the nazis would have been able to invade.

Socialism is about taking away our economic and social freedoms and putting them in the hands of the government. My parents are actually liberal and vote democrat. I love them both, but their political ideologies are naive.

Also, the WHO dislikes US healthcare and this is a well known fact, they use the fact we spend a lot of money on healthcare as a way of stating that our healthcare system is bad.

Bush was a cool guy, the sort of person I could see being friends with and while people always portray him as stupid he actually wasn't. He was a good speaker and besides, he had support of the people. After all, we voted for him - twice. He wasn't that bad, and had the country's best interests at heart.

Look up the word. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonbat. It refers to liberals like you. He absolutely is the worst president we have ever had. He has destroyed our economy, hates Americans and has chummed up with the likes of the chinese and south americans and pushed away our allies, such as Israel and britain too.

I dislike bubbles.

I am not the kind of person that goes around blindly stating the USA is the best. Yes, IMO the US is the best country in the world, but there is evidence to support this claim - we have the highest GDP, one of the highest HDI's, the best colleges etc.


Flowchart-to-determine-if-youre-having-a-rational-discussion-e1300206446831-634x882.jpg

This is not a discussion. I am off to blow bubbles. :bubbles:
Reply 269
Original post by teamnoether
Flowchart-to-determine-if-youre-having-a-rational-discussion-e1300206446831-634x882.jpg

This is not a discussion. I am off to blow bubbles. :bubbles:


lol, so - can't counter what I am saying, so instead you resort to stating that 'this is not a discussion'. Nice way to lose an argument.
Original post by alex5455
dont inflate there importance, sharri is an ill informed nationalistic racist, and dykwia is a homophobic ill informed over patriotic nationalist (who only recently learned that puerto rico exists :facepalm:, quite frankly neither of these people should have been unbanned from this site, shows how tolerant the mods are.

i have spent months in america, in that time, 80%+ of the people i met were like the two idiots attempting to argue with me above, unfortunately for you, people will make assumptions when they learn your american and people will dislike you for it, and you know the sort of people to blame, however bear in mind, once you prove your reasonable and not a "USAUSAUSA RULE DA WORLD" type like the two above, people wont mind, as long as you dont pontificate about why america is the best place in the world, it isnt


Out of curiosity, where in America did you visit? There are of course large swaths of the country that I haven't visited, but I'm trying to reconcile your experience of America with mine. I genuinely don't know anyone like DYKWIA or Sharri5, and it saddens me that this is how you (and many other people) perceive my whole country. The America I know certainly has plenty of flaws, but it also has some really strong points. I'm really excited to move to the UK in September, but not because I hate America. I've actually spent the last day trying to look more carefully to see if there's something I'm missing, and I still feel that I'm not any different from the people around me.

Actually, a lot of them are way cooler than I am. :cool:
Land of the free? Isnt there places in America were you are not even allowed to drink?
Reply 272
Original post by teamnoether
Out of curiosity, where in America did you visit? There are of course large swaths of the country that I haven't visited, but I'm trying to reconcile your experience of America with mine. I genuinely don't know anyone like DYKWIA or Sharri5, and it saddens me that this is how you (and many other people) perceive my whole country. The America I know certainly has plenty of flaws, but it also has some really strong points. I'm really excited to move to the UK in September, but not because I hate America. I've actually spent the last day trying to look more carefully to see if there's something I'm missing, and I still feel that I'm not any different from the people around me.

Actually, a lot of them are way cooler than I am. :cool:

. Where are you from? I think you'll find the further from the coasts you get the reasonable and less naive the people become.
Original post by DYKWIA
lol, so - can't counter what I am saying, so instead you resort to stating that 'this is not a discussion'. Nice way to lose an argument.


This is seriously the last thing I have to say to you (my bubbles are prepped for the blowing). If you had bothered to read the rather clever flow chart I provided for you (I didn't make it, but enjoyed it all the same), you would see that I am terminating discussion with you because you seem to feel that logic is superfluous to discussion. You fail to back up your claims with evidence, and you refuse to examine evidence provided by others. I'm pretty sure you've in fact failed the very first step: "Can you envision anything that will change your mind on this topic?".

As this is not a discussion, I have far better things to do with my time. I suggest others do the same. :smile:
Original post by teamnoether
Out of curiosity, where in America did you visit? There are of course large swaths of the country that I haven't visited, but I'm trying to reconcile your experience of America with mine. I genuinely don't know anyone like DYKWIA or Sharri5, and it saddens me that this is how you (and many other people) perceive my whole country. The America I know certainly has plenty of flaws, but it also has some really strong points. I'm really excited to move to the UK in September, but not because I hate America. I've actually spent the last day trying to look more carefully to see if there's something I'm missing, and I still feel that I'm not any different from the people around me.

Actually, a lot of them are way cooler than I am. :cool:


florida, washington dc, travelled most of the length of the colorado river, the rocky mountains, wherever the green river is, and new jersey, oh and new york and the surrounding areas
Original post by Left Hand Drive
Land of the free? Isnt there places in America were you are not even allowed to drink?


Not that I know of - though it's certainly possible. I do know that you can't buy alcohol in Massachusetts on a Sunday, which I think is adorable.
Original post by alex5455
florida, washington dc, travelled most of the length of the colorado river, the rocky mountains, wherever the green river is, and new jersey, oh and new york and the surrounding areas


Hmm. I haven't been to most of those places, though I hear the Rockies are beautiful. I've spent a little time in New York and a day or so in DC, but not enough time to really know the areas very well.
Original post by teamnoether
Not that I know of - though it's certainly possible. I do know that you can't buy alcohol in Massachusetts on a Sunday, which I think is adorable.


They are called dry counties I believe its not adorable at all. I want a beer on a Sunday I'll have one!
Reply 278
Original post by Left Hand Drive
They are called dry counties I believe its not adorable at all. I want a beer on a Sunday I'll have one!


Aye. There would be riots if they pulled that crap in Scotland!
Original post by Left Hand Drive
They are called dry counties I believe its not adorable at all. I want a beer on a Sunday I'll have one!


Agreed. :smile: I say I find it adorable because it's such a quaint and antiquated remnant of Massachusetts as the Massachusetts Bay Colony. I feel like you have to giggle a little.

You can actually drink in Massachusetts on a Sunday, you just can't purchase alcohol.

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