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How to begin a computer programming career with limited programming knowledge

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    (Original post by MUN123)
    What do you mean? Do I have to know people in the software industry to get a job.
    No, but it makes life easier.
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    I used to work as a recruitment consultant for .net software engineers, there are quite a few roles out there for .net developers and a few graduate roles but before applying for these roles you would need developing experience.

    Skills/languages that most people would look for are c#.net, asp.net, sql server, html, MVC, java, ect.

    After learning these languages and skills approach small local businesses and ask if you could do some development work for them (consider non paid too) after doing 5 projects like this i would aproach some software house and explain you may not have a degree in the subject but you are passionate and enthusiastic about coding and ask if they have any positions. If i wanted to get into development work that's how i would go about it

    Hope this helps..
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    (Original post by fat_hobbit)
    I don't think you can pass a CS degree if you don't know what/and how to use sub version.

    It should be fundamental in any software engineering module.
    You can if the course doesn't explicitly require that you use it on a good deal of projects. Otherwise too many students just won't be bothered to pick it up.
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    (Original post by n65uk)
    It is insane the amount of people who come out of university not knowing what source control is.
    I work for a small software company around 20 devs running for about 15 years.

    No source control.

    No documentation on any software or database.

    Lots of stuff outsourced.

    We have servers with critical web software that were built by contractors over a decade ago in some crazy web language that are used 1,000s of times a day, have not been updated (or even logged into) and no documentation.

    Million pound project stalled and cancelled. Then the guy lost all the details for the project servers so we could not log into them. Went to the data centre and could not even find them. Million pounds worth of software that is 99% finished, cant log into the servers.

    My job title should be a software bodger rather than a software developer.
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    (Original post by nojoegohome)
    I work for a small software company around 20 devs running for about 15 years.

    No source control.

    No documentation on any software or database.

    Lots of stuff outsourced.

    We have servers with critical web software that were built by contractors over a decade ago in some crazy web language that are used 1,000s of times a day, have not been updated (or even logged into) and no documentation.

    Million pound project stalled and cancelled. Then the guy lost all the details for the project servers so we could not log into them. Went to the data centre and could not even find them. Million pounds worth of software that is 99% finished, cant log into the servers.

    My job title should be a software bodger rather than a software developer.
    Yeah, if it is an old software house then chances are they haven't kept up to date.

    Still, I am a bit surprised you don't use source control. How on earth do you manage projects with multiple developers working on it? Also surprised that the senior developers haven't pushed this through.
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    (Original post by coldplasma)
    You can if the course doesn't explicitly require that you use it on a good deal of projects. Otherwise too many students just won't be bothered to pick it up.
    You can probably get away with not using it if you are the only developer, but god, if there are multiple developers working on one project, it will become a nightmare managing it.

    At my uni SVN was a must.
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    (Original post by nojoegohome)
    I work for a small software company around 20 devs running for about 15 years.

    No source control.

    No documentation on any software or database.

    Lots of stuff outsourced.

    We have servers with critical web software that were built by contractors over a decade ago in some crazy web language that are used 1,000s of times a day, have not been updated (or even logged into) and no documentation.

    Million pound project stalled and cancelled. Then the guy lost all the details for the project servers so we could not log into them. Went to the data centre and could not even find them. Million pounds worth of software that is 99% finished, cant log into the servers.

    My job title should be a software bodger rather than a software developer.
    train wreck.

    You're sitting in one.
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    (Original post by fat_hobbit)
    I don't think you can pass a CS degree if you don't know what/and how to use sub version.

    It should be fundamental in any software engineering module.
    Unfortunately it seems to be a only a few courses that offer it.

    Certainly here in Bristol, the UWE Computer Science course doesn't touch on SVN at all.
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    (Original post by n65uk)
    Unfortunately it seems to be a only a few courses that offer it.

    Certainly here in Bristol, the UWE Computer Science course doesn't touch on SVN at all.
    That is so weird.
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    (Original post by fat_hobbit)
    That is so weird.
    it's not weird. CS != SE.

    I think the only way to learn to become a good software engineer is on the job training under good software engineers. Academia won't get you anywhere, real life projects in teams with high quality experienced people is the only real way.
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    (Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
    it's not weird. CS != SE.

    I think the only way to learn to become a good software engineer is on the job training under good software engineers. Academia won't get you anywhere, real life projects in teams with high quality experienced people is the only real way.
    Well I studied CS, and we had a non-optional SE module. So had to learn it as part of it. I would have thought this was the case for other unis too.

    And yes you are right, I am a much better coder now then when I was doing my degree - probably due to coding a lot more, as opposed to learning the theory behind computing.
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    (Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
    it's not weird. CS != SE.

    I think the only way to learn to become a good software engineer is on the job training under good software engineers. Academia won't get you anywhere, real life projects in teams with high quality experienced people is the only real way.
    Any CompSci course without compulsory SE modules is not a course worth taking. Version control isn't SE either, it's a pretty basic programming skill even if you're working solo. It's not just about putting and merging code in a repo, version control is about maintaining a history of your development process. This is something that is extremely useful no matter how many people are in the team.
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    (Original post by fat_hobbit)
    Yeah, if it is an old software house then chances are they haven't kept up to date.

    Still, I am a bit surprised you don't use source control. How on earth do you manage projects with multiple developers working on it? Also surprised that the senior developers haven't pushed this through.
    Well most of the developers were let go about 2 years ago its just 3 of us now.

    So many Dilbert style events I have been told about.

    The senior dev a long time ago ran a stupid SQL query on the LIVE DB and instead of updating one record updated them all. This in turn automatically purchased 10,000 of products from other businesses. A server was literally sending out purchase requests continuously for half a day before someone noticed. Almost bankrupted the business.

    So far all of my experience in IT has been like this. My first job in IT was just as crazy but for different reasons.
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    (Original post by nojoegohome)
    Well most of the developers were let go about 2 years ago its just 3 of us now.

    So many Dilbert style events I have been told about.

    The senior dev a long time ago ran a stupid SQL query on the LIVE DB and instead of updating one record updated them all. This in turn automatically purchased 10,000 of products from other businesses. A server was literally sending out purchase requests continuously for half a day before someone noticed. Almost bankrupted the business.

    So far all of my experience in IT has been like this. My first job in IT was just as crazy but for different reasons.
    You should implement source control in your code.

    Quite interesting, where I work, senior developer goes absolutely crazy if a variable name is not properly named. Nit-picky like hell.

    Then again, he did study at Cambridge.
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    (Original post by coldplasma)
    Any CompSci course without compulsory SE modules is not a course worth taking. Version control isn't SE either, it's a pretty basic programming skill even if you're working solo. It's not just about putting and merging code in a repo, version control is about maintaining a history of your development process. This is something that is extremely useful no matter how many people are in the team.
    Well to be fair on those that haven't learnt it, it is not something compulsory; just helps a lot with maintaining your program for the reasons you have stated.
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    http://www.udacity.com/
    Sign up for CS101, it will u teach enough progamming skills to start off fluently.
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    (Original post by nojoegohome)
    Well most of the developers were let go about 2 years ago its just 3 of us now.

    So many Dilbert style events I have been told about.

    The senior dev a long time ago ran a stupid SQL query on the LIVE DB and instead of updating one record updated them all. This in turn automatically purchased 10,000 of products from other businesses. A server was literally sending out purchase requests continuously for half a day before someone noticed. Almost bankrupted the business.

    So far all of my experience in IT has been like this. My first job in IT was just as crazy but for different reasons.
    Haha the classic forgotten 'Where' clause easy mistake but brutal
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    maybe there are night classes or something?
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    I graduated with a chemistry degree and got a job as a programmer straight afterwards. At the time I'd done a brief amount of C coding, but was hired because of having a science degree from a good university. Over half of the devs at the company do not have compsci degrees, but likewise have maths/science/eng degrees. I think your maths degree would put you in good stead provided you could demonstrate proficiency in a language from hobby projects.

    For business software development, most applications are either written with .NET languages (C#, VB.NET etc) or JVM languages (Java, Groovy etc). A general guide to which ecosystem you should choose is whether you prefer Windows or Linux, given that .NET is effectively Microsoft only (Mono aside).

    C is still very popular, and learning the language teaches you more about the workings of a computer (bytes, memory allocation etc) than modern high level languages which hide those details from the programmer.
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    I had tutoring today, tutor found out that I was a web developer. Upon finding this out, he asked me if i was avaliable for freelance work.

    Just to throw this out there, I have had so much work thrown at me like this. But due to being in full time employment, I have always had to decline.

    The job was good as well - this guy was a successful banker, with contacts in rich places to put it mildly.

    Networking is key - our skills are in demand, especially with the web.

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