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Men vs. Women VIOLENCE

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    (Original post by ApriliaRS)
    This is america in the video remember Everything they do is an exaggeration of what we do! just saying good morning becomes a task in the US :rolleyes:
    Haha very true. Don't think that would happen in London, sadly
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    (Original post by whatsername2009)
    I'm intrigued. How do you define 'lady like' behaviour? What would make a woman unworthy of your respect?
    Well, spitting in someone's face and headbutting them isn't acceptable behaviour from anybody, but you'd least expect it from a woman.

    What I was trying to get at was if a guy did it to me I would have probably been in a fight, I could only bring myself to slap her. There are many things that would make me lose respect for someone, male or female. I'm going to have the sexism police out on me here though. When a group of young women are standing about swearing, spitting and just generally being disgusting, it seems so much worse then if it's a group of lads. Not that I condone that sort of behaviour from either.

    Girls are girls, lads are lads. There's a sort of 'expected' way for people to behave, that's why, even now, when a woman commits a crime like assault or a crime against kids, it's always seen as much worse in general.

    Fact is, someone headbutted me, if she wants to be treated equally then she's going to get some degree of force in retaliation. But, as I was much stronger than her, I couldn't exactly go in full force. In fact I think what I did was pretty fair, I'm not the one going round assaulting people for no reason.
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    (Original post by zakkaz)
    Last week our class had an intresting debate into Men Vs. Women violence, whilst part of the class maintained that if a man hit a woman he is a P***y, However one person intrestingly a girl said if that if a woman had the balls to hit a man she should have the balls to be hit back. I want to know what other people think.
    I honestly couldn't give a **** what gender someone is. If I'm attacked, they can expect the exact same treatment in return.
    I would find a way to restrain them to stop them attacking me more, with the least amount of force possible. If its a simple job of grabbing them and not letting go until they stop being mad, then great. But if that doesn't work they will receiving a punch or two until I can restrain them. I certainly wouldn't take my anger out on them and punch like a chavvy nob until they are on the ground begging to stop.
    Like I said, least amount of force possible to keep me safe.

    Like others have said, women deserve equal rights. If a woman attacks someone then they should expect it in return!
    If anyone is stupid enough to attack someone for any reason, then they should
    expect a beating in return. What would you have a man being attacked by a woman do?

    My stance on domestic violence is the same. Its a **** thing to do and shouldn't be tolerated by either sex.
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    Anybody can hit anybody else, no who matter who they are.

    However, anybody can defend themselves. Gender is, and should not be, any bar.
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    (Original post by lonelykatana)
    I honestly couldn't give a **** what gender someone is. If I'm attacked, they can expect the exact same treatment in return.
    I would find a way to restrain them to stop them attacking me more, with the least amount of force possible. If its a simple job of grabbing them and not letting go until they stop being mad, then great. But if that doesn't work they will receiving a punch or two until I can restrain them. I certainly wouldn't take my anger out on them and punch like a chavvy nob until they are on the ground begging to stop.
    Like I said, least amount of force possible to keep me safe.

    Like others have said, women deserve equal rights. If a woman attacks someone then they should expect it in return!
    If anyone is stupid enough to attack someone for any reason, then they should
    expect a beating in return. What would you have a man being attacked by a woman do?

    My stance on domestic violence is the same. Its a **** thing to do and shouldn't be tolerated by either sex.
    Why?
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    (Original post by Pitt1988)
    Well, spitting in someone's face and headbutting them isn't acceptable behaviour from anybody, but you'd least expect it from a woman.

    What I was trying to get at was if a guy did it to me I would have probably been in a fight, I could only bring myself to slap her. There are many things that would make me lose respect for someone, male or female. I'm going to have the sexism police out on me here though. When a group of young women are standing about swearing, spitting and just generally being disgusting, it seems so much worse then if it's a group of lads. Not that I condone that sort of behaviour from either.
    Girls are girls, lads are lads. There's a sort of 'expected' way for people to behave, that's why, even now, when a woman commits a crime like assault or a crime against kids, it's always seen as much worse in general.

    Fact is, someone headbutted me, if she wants to be treated equally then she's going to get some degree of force in retaliation. But, as I was much stronger than her, I couldn't exactly go in full force. In fact I think what I did was pretty fair, I'm not the one going round assaulting people for no reason.
    In that particular case I don't dispute your right to defend yourself, as long as your retaliation is proportionate and you have no other option, but that would apply to any fight regardless of the gender of the participants.

    I also agree that it's not pleasant to see anyone spitting in public, but I don't think it's right that women are held to much higher standards of behaviour than men. I think the post I quoted before could easily be taken the wrong way - you say that you're not a wife-beater and (which I read as 'because') you respect women, but that you only respect women who are 'lady like'. It could be inferred that you think it's OK to beat up women who don't have good manners.
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    (Original post by whatsername2009)
    In that particular case I don't dispute your right to defend yourself, as long as your retaliation is proportionate and you have no other option, but that would apply to any fight regardless of the gender of the participants.

    I also agree that it's not pleasant to see anyone spitting in public, but I don't think it's right that women are held to much higher standards of behaviour than men. I think the post I quoted before could easily be taken the wrong way - you say that you're not a wife-beater and (which I read as 'because') you respect women, but that you only respect women who are 'lady like'. It could be inferred that you think it's OK to beat up women who don't have good manners.
    I have respect for everyone until they do something which makes me lose respect for them. However, just because someone, male or female, does something that makes me lose respect for them, doesn't mean I'm going to beat them up. Would only retaliate if I'm physically attacked. If I walked past a group of girls doing that I wouldn't just turn round and start knocking them all out lol.
    Maybe I'm jut a bit old fashioned or something but society, in general, has expectations of how people should behave and, usually, this would be different between men and women.
    Just to clarify, I would never beat anyone up for anything other than a physical attack to me or someone close to me. I wouldn't resort to violence for bad manners or verbal attacks. I know a lot of people would say you should never resort to violence but they are pretty deluded to think we live in some sort of loved up world, it just doesn't work like that. There are times when you have to resort to it otherwise people will just walk all over you.
    As for that lovely chav chick I mentioned before, it was a proportionate use of strength and maybe, in future, she might think twice about doing things like that to random people.
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    (Original post by Hectorious)
    Remember a man has 150% the lean body mass and 50% of the fat of a women.
    Why is that empty fact of any relevance? All is fair and easy game in life?
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    I saw a bloke once step in when a lad was attacking his girlfriend on a high street. He pulled him off and the girl started hitting him with her shoe screaming to leave her boyfriend alone!

    I bet he was expecting a hero's applause and couldn't believe it.
    :lolwut: This Planet is insane...
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    (Original post by Einheri)
    And I've made the point to you that if someone with better takedowns or throws than your takedown or throwing defense wants you on the ground then you're going on the ground. :rolleyes:
    Well, A- my defence is quite good and B if i dont afford someone the opportunity to clinch or my grab my legs, then im not getting taken down, am i?





    :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    Well, A- my defence is quite good and B if i dont afford someone the opportunity to clinch or my grab my legs, then im not getting taken down, am i?





    :rolleyes:
    Man, I'm sure you're a troll. If you're in striking distance of someone then you are in clinching and shooting distance. You're approaching a fight as if you are going to be able to control it how you want to - you should certainly try as hard as you can to, no doubt. But you should also be prepared in the event that your opponent manages to impose their fight on you. Saying "oh, I just won't let them" is nonsense. That attitude is why strikers were getting wiped out when they first encountered BJJ; "oh, I don't need to learn ground fighting because I'm not going to let them get me on the ground" then, of course, they got put on their backs and had no idea what to do because they hadn't trained for the eventuality. Train everything - striking, throwing/takedowns, groundwork to be well-rounded and prepared for almost anything that comes at you (hence why I box, practice BJJ, Judo and wrestling - to be as complete as possible). That was Bruce Lee's philsophy and it is the dominant philosophy behind MMA training.
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    (Original post by Einheri)
    Man, I'm sure you're a troll. If you're in striking distance of someone then you are in clinching and shooting distance. You're approaching a fight as if you are going to be able to control it how you want to - you should certainly try as hard as you can to, no doubt. But you should also be prepared in the event that your opponent manages to impose their fight on you. Saying "oh, I just won't let them" is nonsense. That attitude is why strikers were getting wiped out when they first encountered BJJ; "oh, I don't need to learn ground fighting because I'm not going to let them get me on the ground" then, of course, they got put on their backs and had no idea what to do because they hadn't trained for the eventuality. Train everything - striking, throwing/takedowns, groundwork to be well-rounded and prepared for almost anything that comes at you (hence why I box, practice BJJ, Judo and wrestling - to be as complete as possible). That was Bruce Lee's philsophy and it is the dominant philosophy behind MMA training.
    Did i ever say i didnt learn ground fighting?

    i said for the purposes of self defence, ground fighting and grappling is an acceptance you have been too lazy or immobile to avoid an attack.
    Again, you are referring to 'strikers in the aspect of the UFC' Im talking about martial arts.
    But, even if i lower myself down to your thinking in terms of UFC and the example of chuck liddell, who was effectively a decent amateur kick boxer with kenpo training, but rarely got taken down or submitted by any grappler or spent much time on the mat at all in bouts and yet defended his UFC title for over 3 years. And he wasnt anything remarkable in terms of martial arts.
    So if he can avoid takedowns and clintches in a confined envirnment of a cage, most decent martial artists can do it out in the real world without too much difficulty But you have to train it till it becomes second nature. not excessively practice judo so you can experience being choked out by girls. And i dont disagree with Bruce Lee's points of view, but he didnt say wrestling each other on rubber mats in your pyjamas was the best way to train for self defence.

    Thats all im going to add on this because otherwise we are both going to get censored by mods for going too far off topic.
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    (Original post by Lollyage)
    I can't stand women who only want equality when it suits them. Being violent towards anyone is wrong regardless of gender (or anything else), but if a woman punches a man then she should get a punch back.
    Bona dea, I am glad that a girl agrees with me on this. Every time I voice this opinion I am condemned as something like a 'potential wife beater' or something.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    Did i ever say i didnt learn ground fighting?

    i said for the purposes of self defence, ground fighting and grappling is an acceptance you have been too lazy or immobile to avoid an attack.
    Again, you are referring to 'strikers in the aspect of the UFC' Im talking about martial arts.
    But, even if i lower myself down to your thinking in terms of UFC and the example of chuck liddell, who was effectively a decent amateur kick boxer with kenpo training, but rarely got taken down or submitted by any grappler or spent much time on the mat at all in bouts and yet defended his UFC title for over 3 years. And he wasnt anything remarkable in terms of martial arts.
    So if he can avoid takedowns and clintches in a confined envirnment of a cage, most decent martial artists can do it out in the real world without too much difficulty But you have to train it till it becomes second nature. not excessively practice judo so you can experience being choked out by girls. And i dont disagree with Bruce Lee's points of view, but he didnt say wrestling each other on rubber mats in your pyjamas was the best way to train for self defence.

    Thats all im going to add on this because otherwise we are both going to get censored by mods for going too far off topic.
    Umm, Liddell was a Division I All American Wrestler. That means he is a grappling beast. Anti-grappling is grappling - he used his wrestling to avoid takedowns. Was he a submission grappler? No. Was he a grappler? Most definitely.
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    (Original post by sharm_111)
    Anybody can hit anybody else, no who matter who they are.

    However, anybody can defend themselves. Gender is, and should not be, any bar.
    Yes but its harder for a woman to defend herself
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    (Original post by Dmon1Unlimited)
    :lolwut: This Planet is insane...
    Eh it just proves the power her boyfriend had over her. She had probably become totally in denial about the fact it was wrong and believed she deserved what ever mental/physical abuse he dished out. So she'd defend him from others because what he's doing isn't wrong from her warped point of view, sort of like Stockholm syndrome.

    Anyway people just think women on guy violence is funny, as that video showed. The guy must have deserved it or women just think "yeah go girl!".

    As an example, we were leaving pizza hut when my girlfriend grabbed me and put me in a headlock and walked me out like that into the street. Obviously she was messing around* but no one did anything, I bet if I put her in a headlock and dragged her out pizza hut and onto the street I'd be challenged. Also it's not as if they could go "yeah but she couldn't do real damage", she has 30 pounds on me and we're the same height, I'm pretty small built. I can over power her, but they're not to know that especially if I'm the one in a headlock.


    * well actually it happened because I paid for lunch, she likes to split everything 50/50 but I like to treat people, so I was crafty and paid via card when she nipped to the loo. That's right, physically assaulted for buying your girlfriend lunch, no wonder chivalry's dead haha.
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    (Original post by joey11223)
    Eh it just proves the power her boyfriend had over her. She had probably become totally in denial about the fact it was wrong and believed she deserved what ever mental/physical abuse he dished out. So she'd defend him from others because what he's doing isn't wrong from her warped point of view, sort of like Stockholm syndrome.

    Anyway people just think women on guy violence is funny, as that video showed. The guy must have deserved it or women just think "yeah go girl!".

    As an example, we were leaving pizza hut when my girlfriend grabbed me and put me in a headlock and walked me out like that into the street. Obviously she was messing around* but no one did anything, I bet if I put her in a headlock and dragged her out pizza hut and onto the street I'd be challenged. Also it's not as if they could go "yeah but she couldn't do real damage", she has 30 pounds on me and we're the same height, I'm pretty small built. I can over power her, but they're not to know that especially if I'm the one in a headlock.


    * well actually it happened because I paid for lunch, she likes to split everything 50/50 but I like to treat people, so I was crafty and paid via card when she nipped to the loo. That's right, physically assaulted for buying your girlfriend lunch, no wonder chivalry's dead haha.
    OI...YOU... get out of my head! i was thinking of stockholm syndrome to
    though i forgot the name.
    possibly because hes giving her some sort of stimuli which she craves on top of the abuse in a similar way to criminals/hostages... in this way they may think they are in a respectable/loving relationship...though i just made this up, im not therapist/expert

    i know....when people generally think of sexism, they tend to think of women being the victims, doubt many people would even consider a male victim...

    WE MUST ACT. WE MUST RISE UP. WE MUST FORM MENISM! :P
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    (Original post by Einheri)
    Umm, Liddell was a Division I All American Wrestler. That means he is a grappling beast. Anti-grappling is grappling - he used his wrestling to avoid takedowns. Was he a submission grappler? No. Was he a grappler? Most definitely.
    Im not an expert on chuck liddell, but i dont think he was an all-american. even if he was, its only college wrestling , is that the equivalent of olympic medal level wrestling ? would he be at the level of, i dont know who are the world champions now, shushil kumar, saityev? No.

    He also thai-boxed at an amatuer level, he wasnst considered top class on the world circuit either - but they were all standards more than enough to become a legend in mma.

    The principle of sprawling and staying mobile to avoid clinch and takedowns is not unique to grecoroman wrestling. Many systems of self defence teach something similar, which was the point from the beginning.
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    (Original post by Einheri)
    Man, I'm sure you're a troll. If you're in striking distance of someone then you are in clinching and shooting distance. You're approaching a fight as if you are going to be able to control it how you want to - you should certainly try as hard as you can to, no doubt. But you should also be prepared in the event that your opponent manages to impose their fight on you. Saying "oh, I just won't let them" is nonsense. That attitude is why strikers were getting wiped out when they first encountered BJJ; "oh, I don't need to learn ground fighting because I'm not going to let them get me on the ground" .
    And i would add that simply training judo doesnt mean you will be able to take everyone down - someone like a pro rugby player for example will be so strong in the quads and calves that trains daily to stay on their feet, will be difficult to take down in a clinch, particulalry as they could jsut lift you off the ground quite easily.
    martial arts doesnt teach trying match strength with strength becasue there will always be someone stronger than you. If you train to avoid clinches and stay out of take down range and take down defence, you take extra strength and weight out of the equation.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    And i would add that simply training judo doesnt mean you will be able to take everyone down - someone like a pro rugby player for example will be so strong in the quads and calves that trains daily to stay on their feet, will be difficult to take down in a clinch, particulalry as they could jsut lift you off the ground quite easily.
    martial arts doesnt teach trying match strength with strength becasue there will always be someone stronger than you. If you train to avoid clinches and stay out of take down range and take down defence, you take extra strength and weight out of the equation.
    I'm 183cm tall and weigh 98kg at a reasonably lean 15%BF. I lift weights (mainly kettlebells) and do cardio - I take every conditioning class at my gym as well as training MAs for about 12 hours a week. I'm not at all saying that size and strength don't come into the equation. But after a certain point technique and ability trump it IMO - in a straight up fight I'd put my money on Ronda Rousey, Kyra Gracie or Gina Carano against some male rugby player or weightlifting champ with no martial arts training (and no a rugby tackle is not the same as a morote gari/double ledg takedown before you say that). Take a look at the fight between Professor Pedro Sauer (a skinny, short guy with a black belt in BJJ and Judo) who was about 162lbs and 1992s MR Utah who was 250lbs of muscle with no MA training - it was a hard fight but Sauer nearly broke the guy's arm and generally controlled the fight.

    Why would I personally avoid the clinch when my clinchwork is probably better than 99.99% of the general population? And if you can't take them down for some reason then armdrag > take the back > rear naked choke is simple and doesn't require you to throw their weight around. Similarly guard pull into an immediate sweep is brilliant on guys who have very weight but no balance - not that I'd ever advocate pulling guard except as a last resort, obviously. Living in Iceland there are quite a few guys who come in to our gym who are very tall and very big - I have no problem throwing, taking down, or controlling them in the clinch (or on the ground). Little Japanese guys like Mitsuyo Maeda were throwing professional strongmen around like ragdolls when they did exhibition tours of Europe and America. When you are at high level of skill strength and size only becomes much of an issue when the person you are fighting matches or is close to matching your skill.

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