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47 Muslims on trial for paedophilia

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    most priests are paedophiles so shut ur mouth... and dont make up stuff either
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    Then provide the sources. I don't really care how reputable they are. Otherwise this thread isn't going to go anywhere.
    http://www.blottr.com/north-west/bre...rial-liverpool

    http://www.digitaljournal.com/articl...#ixzz1lsjLsMPP
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    (Original post by binkey)
    I could have just as easily made up a thread.

    47 Members of the BNP on trial for paedophilia
    Leader caught with 5 year old boy
    EDL leader joined BNP to get at children
    Daily Mail leader writer ring leader in child prostitution ring


    I could get all sorts of video off YouTube, re-edit it, and mix in footage of the BNP/EDL, and a vicious crowd outside a court, somewhere.
    So you are saying that just because it has been jumped on by the right wing media - as any heinous case attracting national interest and involving foreigners inevitably is, you automatically discount it as lies and propaganda?

    Its already been explained why its not been in the mainstream media, but after the trial is finished, you can guarantee that it will be.

    By all means, take the news with a pinch of salt as these organisations obviously have an agenda, but to completely write the stories off as false only because of that is just sticking your head in the sand.
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    (Original post by binkey)
    http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven...ex-ring-claims

    Manchester Evening News, September 2011.

    Trial 6th February

    Counter-protest to these Nazis
    http://truth-reason-liberty.blogspot...ool-crown.html

    And you'll find those on trial in Court 3-1 (not 31) here
    http://www.thelawpages.com/court-hea...rown-Court.php

    How did everyone get it so wrong? I mean 11 is not 47. And some of those offences are child trafficking, not paedophilia. And how did it get to Muslim rather than men of Asian decent. Some of them are in their 20s, so they're British - regardless, but some of the others may have come here from overseas. I'm surprised they didn't bother to spice it up further and suggest they were all immigrants. At the end of the day they're people who've done wrong, they're in court, they're being judged, if found guilty they'll be sentenced. Who cares? People do bad things every day.
    Who knows. It could be that the trials are not all being done together, after all, to try 47 at once would be a mammoth task. They wouldn't all fit in the dock together for one thing. Or a whole load of them could have pled guilty already.

    To the man on the Clapham omnibus, having a nudie picture of a 17 year old girl is paedophilia, even though it clearly isn't. Call it child abuse if you like.

    And of course - how ridiculous can you get - you say 'it's child trafficking, not paedophilia' as though it were sooooooooooooo much less of a heinous crime, as though butter wouldn't melt in their mouths.

    Yes, the names are asian Pakistani. However you would be stretching it to the bounds of politically correct incredulity to argue that none of the men are in fact muslim or have been brought up by their parents as muslim, or pray to Allah, even the ones called Mohammed and various derivatives.

    People were screaming bloody murder about Huntley's guilt before he even saw the inside of a courtroom. And that of Joanna Yeates landlord, especially the 'sex offender pose' pictures of him in the NOTW. And countless other paedophiles whose cases have been widely publicised. No one was jumping to their defence on here, but suddenly plenty of people are doing so in this case because it's the PC thing to do.

    I say innocent until proven guilty as much as the next, but it seems people are much more quick to take up the call of innocence because they might have names that sound slightly foreign, because of course it's xenophobic, if not downright racist to suggest that people who define themselves as muslims can be paedophiles in the same way that people who define themselves as christian priests can.

    All the while ignoring the elephant in the room that its not the behaviour of a good muslim to abuse children, in the same way that its not very christian either.
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    (Original post by binkey)
    Well, I gave links that you didn't seem able to. If people want to call the Manchester Evening News a right-wing rag, good luck with that. If you had been following it a while you'd know it was 11 not 47 - why did you not think to point that out. It means anyone at all who says 47 Muslim men is stretching the truth beyond anything credible. The reports by the BNP/EDL have no credibility because they have lied, and it didn't take a genius to find out those lies - just a couple of Google searches.
    I posted links before your post...

    (Original post by binkey)
    The mainstream media would have covered it if it was news-worthy - at the moment they're behaving themselves a little better than usual whilst they wait to give evidence to Levinson. As soon as the trial is over the Daily Sieg Heil will no doubt report it - I mean, didn't they already cover this at the time ?
    Haha, oh look it's Godwin's Law. Just because a news article doesn't meet your sanitised left wing ideal, its a given that it only contains lies and complete fabrications :rolleyes:

    (Original post by binkey)
    Elsewhere, from the archives

    Global paedophile ring smashed *way back in MAY 2011*
    http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/...2534-28649913/


    Four men have admitted running an international paedophile ring that distributed millions of indecent images and films of children to over 40 countries around the world.

    Ian Frost, 35, and his partner Paul Rowlands, 34, Frost's brother Paul, 37, and 32-year-old Ian Sambridge have pleaded guilty at Nottingham Crown Court to various charges of making, distributing and possessing indecent images of children.

    The force said smashing the ring had resulted in 132 children in the UK being protected and safeguarded, and a number of paedophiles being taken out of positions of trust, including teachers, doctors, youth workers and police officers.


    ^^ that lot don't sound very Muslim :rolleyes: (perhaps they changed their names ) and it doesn't list all the people involved, the teachers, doctors, youth workers and police officers ---- but it does sound like there were more than 11 :rolleyes:
    You're funny. In one instance you say that just because their names sound muslim, it doesn't mean they are.

    Then in an apparent attempt at deflection, you go and pick an article to draw attention from the point that it is possible that - shock horror - a muslim, (or a group of them) **may** be a paedophile, in the same way that a christian, a jew or an atheist can be, and post a list of western sounding names, and the fact that there were more than 11.

    As though the fact that the point under discussion in the thread, namely that some people charged with paedophilia were somehow an irrelevance, purely because they had asian sounding names.

    Finally you go on to say that white people with western sounding names must not be a particular religion under discussion because their names 'don't sound very Muslim'! Oh the irony.
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    There's far, far more sexual abuse perpetrated against children in secular society than by members of any religious faith group.

    Elisabeth Lev - www.politicsdaily.com 2st March, 2010
    ‘The brutal reality is that there are an estimated 39 million victims of childhood sexual abuse in the United States today.

    Of these, between 40 and 60 percent were abused by a family member (for the most part uncles, cousins, stepfathers and live-in boyfriends).

    Carol Shakeshaft and Audrey Cohan have produced a study showing that 5 percent were molested by school teachers. For sexually abusing minors, the number of gym teachers and coaches of junior sporting teams – mainly married – who were convicted of the same crimes in the US reached about 6,000. And above all, according to regular US government reports, two-thirds of sexual abuse against children does not come from strangers or educators – but from family members: stepfathers, uncles, cousins, brothers and, unfortunately, even parents.

    Last year, it was reported that half of the girls fostered in social democratic Sweden in the 50s and 60s had been abused; according to Camila Batmanghelidjh 550,000 children are reported to the social services in this country every year.

    Now those statistics are truly shocking in comparison...
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    (Original post by Akinfenwa)
    ... were Abdul Rauf, age 42, Liaqat Shah, age 40, Adil Khan, age 41, Qamar Shahzad, age 29, Mohammed Sajid, age 34, Mohammed Ikhlaq, age 31, Mohammed Amin, age 44, and Abdul Aziz, age 40.
    I knew I'd heard the name Liaqat Shah in the mainstream news media before. Mohammeds, Abduls, Khans and Shazads are quite common names in the south east asian community, so I didn't make the link at first.

    Here are some "left wing approved" links...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/ju...s-prostitution

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ester-13694250

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ester-15039961

    All made up of course.
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    (Original post by binkey)
    We all know there are some rather determined BNP and EDL supporters on there.

    As usual, somewhat racist overtones obscure the real truth, which is that most paedophile crimes are committed by white men. Saying they are Muslims is not helpful, because it actually detracts from the truth. If they are all Pakistani, it's no different than an all-white group of paedophiles. We shouldn't assume that all-white group is Christian, so best to leave their religious beliefs out of it altogether.
    I'm actually quite anti BNP and anti EDL. I'm also anti Left wing, particularly when these self same lefties will tie themselves into knots trying to come up with any excuse to minimise or deflect from a crime committed by a minority group.

    It all stems from the collapse of socialism, after which Left-wingers shifted their focus from economics to issues of group identity.

    In addition to attacking the capitalist West for oppressing the workers, they attack mainstream society for oppressing marginalised or minority groups that were held to be victims of the majority, particularly stifling any criticism of the negative aspects of minority religions as racism and/or islamophobia.

    Hugely aided by human rights law, such groups then became immune from criticism and were encouraged to complain about their treatment. Moreover, how people felt became much more important than anything they actually did. So if such a victim group claimed to have been insulted, that was regarded as proof that an insult had actually occurred.

    This replacement of objective reality by subjective feelings was a recipe for turning truth and justice inside out.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    There's far, far more sexual abuse perpetrated against children in secular society than by members of any religious faith group.
    You have to wonder what it is though that gave so many catholic priests the inclination to bugger young boys, or the attitudes *some* muslim men have in regards to our society that lead them to believe that these young western girls (never asian girls) are nothing more than white trash to be treated this way.

    I mean, one or two priests could be put down to personal inclination, but so many? Of course, there is the argument that a person with such inclinations be driven to seek a position where they have such access to young boys.

    There is also the thought that in Islam there are some very negative ideas towards certain aspects of western society, particularly western women, and especially those who do not dress modestly.
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    Paedophile refers to pre-pubescent children. Do the victims fall into this category? Also, something like 11% of people have been sexually abused/molested/raped as children and in almost all cases it was done by a relative, close family friend or a trusted figure - not a random stranger.

    Any evidence it's actually 47 people and not 11?
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    (Original post by binkey)
    Difficult to know what the actual numbers are since so many rapes aren't reported, and those that do get reported, only a small number result in any conviction.

    When you say there is a culture of treating women as inferior, have you considered that is what occurs in lots of situations? Women in the CoE have only been allowed to be priests for a relatively short time, and still can't be bishops. So there is a culture right across society in that respect. Women are being disproportionately affected by the job cuts for example.

    If there is a problem with a particular section of the community carrying out more sexual crimes it's up to the government and police to target that - that's what they're employed to do. You waving your hands hysterically in the air isn't going to fix it, and I suspect some peoples motives are more about highlighting Muslims in a negative way than getting at the truth.

    I would love to see those government stats which show that "Pakistani Muslims are HUGELY overrepresented in the number of people convicted of sexual crimes and grooming." Got a link Ads?
    I must say, you've come a lot further in this thread now than when on Page 1 you were screaming that the racists were making it up, and the statement that anyone, let alone a muslim, was on trial at all must all be lies and falsehoods because it wasn't on the BBC.
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    (Original post by binkey)
    I note the report says;

    We do not draw national conclusions about ethnicity
    from the data available at this time because it is too inconsistent. Further research would be needed to examine whether
    the ethnic breakdown reflects issues that need to be addressed within a community context, local demographics
    of the areas from which data is drawn, an unconscious bias among agency responses or other factors that need
    to be explored.


    But on no occasion has any religious description been assigned. I therefore say as before that some people are using this to smear Muslims, where as there is no data whatsoever on the religious beliefs of the people on trial, nor any such data within this report. I would say we should not freak out because one such gang appeared to all be from one ethnic group, because other groups are all-white. If there are particular cultural reasons behind the abuse then those need to be addressed by police and community liaison at the community level - which is also what the report recommends. If their cultural reasons are linked to their religious beliefs, then that is the only point at which their religion can be brought in to the equation.

    Frankly I'm not sure this thread really should be in the 'Religion' section, as it's more Current News, concerning a specific case, not a general item of theology. There are lots of similar threads which get started in there, all about how white men are being jumped by Asian / Muslim gangs. Thread after thread, and they appear on DS quite often also, mostly in GD.

    What I'm against is inaccurate dissemination which can lead to negative stereotyping of whole communities and ethnic groups based on malicious and false misrepresentation of the facts. If the facts support something, fine, but in this case it's a wholly inappropriate to suggest that these men are all Muslins. I note that other reports do not mention the word Muslim but refer to them as Asian - yet even that would not be accurate. Better to leave it as men accused of grooming and sexual offences unless there is a political point to make.
    Well, given that you have already told us that white people are not going to be muslim, all you need to do is let us know what proportion of ethnic minorities to white people there are in the UK, and compare that number to people who self define as muslim, then do the same to the percentage of those in the UK who are not ethnic minority and add together the numbers of those other religions and atheism.

    Then you can keep arguing that Mohammed is not a muslim name.

    You seem desperate to deflect from the fact that they might be muslim, but are definitely asian, the unwritten implication being that you don't want to draw attention to the undeniably negative views of western women that *some* muslim men have. Indeed the fact that they are muslim is relevant because of that.

    You wouldn't do the same if they were catholic priests, would you? The fact that they are catholic priests is definitely relevant to the offence, but to maintain the PC ideal and to avoid accusations of racism, it can't possibly be implied that they are muslim to avoid casting aspersions on Islam as a whole.

    I don't see that it does, to be honest. If they choose to follow a ****ed up version of their religion that the majority of muslims in this country find abhorrent, its something that should be recognised and dealt with.

    The reasons that such problems are rearing their ugly head is precisely because people like you are so keen to stick your head in the sand or sweep it under the carpet and ignore it.
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    (Original post by marcusfox)
    You have to wonder what it is though that gave so many catholic priests the inclination to bugger young boys, or the attitudes *some* muslim men have in regards to our society that lead them to believe that these young western girls (never asian girls) are nothing more than white trash to be treated this way.

    I mean, one or two priests could be put down to personal inclination, but so many? Of course, there is the argument that a person with such inclinations be driven to seek a position where they have such access to young boys.
    Yeah, it's strange especially since it is not widespread as the media portray, albeit reprehensible. And since 85% of the victims are pre/post pubescent boys the correct term is euphebophilia which is not the same as paedophilia. By 'pre' pubescent I am referring to those on the cusp of puberty.

    There is also the thought that in Islam there are some very negative ideas towards certain aspects of western society, particularly western women, and especially those who do not dress modestly.
    Lots of white men have negative opinions of women, and consider that they 'bring it on themselves' when they dress immodestly...or that 'they are asking for it.' Not a lot of difference between either a minority of Islamic men and a minority of white British men in their deplorable attitudes to women, is there?
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    (Original post by yawn)
    Yeah, it's strange especially since it is not widespread as the media portray, albeit reprehensible. And since 85% of the victims are pre/post pubescent boys the correct term is euphebophilia which is not the same as paedophilia. By 'pre' pubescent I am referring to those on the cusp of puberty.

    Lots of white men have negative opinions of women, and consider that they 'bring it on themselves' when they dress immodestly...or that 'they are asking for it.' Not a lot of difference between either a minority of Islamic men and a minority of white British men in their deplorable attitudes to women, is there?
    Can't argue with that. However in Islam, the modesty aspect is a pretty fundamental tenet, written into scripture that women who dress immodestly are harlots, particularly unbelievers, and problem is ignored/deflected/swept under the carpet purely because of the religious aspect, when its fair game if a minority of white catholic priests are involved.

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