[moya]

(Original post by kratos90)
zzzzz, I've got 4A's at A-level, 10A*'s/A's at GCSE and about to get a top degree from a top university, guess I could do with Ritalin dumbing me down a bit, since everyone knows that is what everyone takes it for

great, then surely you are smart enough to get your degree without it?

you said you couldn't give a damn that its class B, if so, then there's no point in this thread.

[kratos90]

(Original post by Ayesha.Tabassam95)
Isnt that REALLY bad for you?? So basically you dont get easily distracted?
Is the drug illegal?
Is it not dodgy though getting it off the internet?!

It could be bad for you and it could be dodgy.

[catoswyn]

(Original post by Ayesha.Tabassam95)
How does Ritalin help you with studying? Because I could probably use some too!
And how did you get it without it be prescribed to you?

Ritalin is a amphetamine... it speeds things up. It is prescribed for people with ADHD as they discovered that for some reason they as yet don't understand amphetamines calm these people down and help them concentrate.

However, if you don't have that condition then the effects are likely to be similar to any other 'speed' drug. This is why it is a class B. Dosages for ADHD people are carefully assessed. Taking it as a recreational drug or one that is used as a stimulant to increase work pace is another matter altogether. Aside from the risk of serious punishment should you be found in possession of it there is the difficulty of knowing the correct dosage levels for you. In addition there are the usual difficulties of relying on an amphetamine... these include:-

That you will need more and more to stimulate you as you adjust to the dosages

That you may develop speed psychosis, hearing sounds constantly in your ear and losing grip with reality

That it may depress your mood inbetween taking it, leading to depressed feelings and sometimes paranoia

That over time you will lose weight in a non-healthy way and put strain on your body and organs

That you will begin to rely on the drug mentally and physically to do work and even in the end to get out of bed for some people. This dependance can lead to worse results in the end.

NONE of this is certain... they are risk factors but pretty high ones. NONE of these apply if the drug is prescribed for ADHD as these people react to the drug differently'

Personally I'd give it a miss

[kratos90]

(Original post by moya)
great, then surely you are smart enough to get your degree without it?

you said you couldn't give a damn that its class B, if so, then there's no point in this thread.

No point whatsoever.

[Arturo Bandini]

(Original post by GangBang)
Yeah true u could lie but then where will that get u if something goes wrong?

I was in hospital the other week and the nurse was like, "next of kin?". I was like "I'm 23" (I do look young!!) ....but apparently that doesn't wash for legal reasons!! Hope op isn't too hectic, fella!

I think you're confused. He doesn't need to lie. Telling them his next of kin doesn't mean the doctors automatically notify them that he's having an operation, it just means they have a contact IF something did go wrong.

[kratos90]

(Original post by catoswyn)
Ritalin is a amphetamine... it speeds things up. It is prescribed for people with ADHD as they discovered that for some reason they as yet don't understand amphetamines calm these people down and help them concentrate.

However, if you don't have that condition then the effects are likely to be similar to any other 'speed' drug. This is why it is a class B. Dosages for ADHD people are carefully assessed. Taking it as a recreational drug or one that is used as a stimulant to increase work pace is another matter altogether. Aside from the risk of serious punishment should you be found in possession of it there is the difficulty of knowing the correct dosage levels for you. In addition there are the usual difficulties of relying on an amphetamine... these include:-

That you will need more and more to stimulate you as you adjust to the dosages

That you may develop speed psychosis, hearing sounds constantly in your ear and losing grip with reality

That it may depress your mood inbetween taking it, leading to depressed feelings and sometimes paranoia

That over time you will lose weight in a non-healthy way and put strain on your body and organs

That you will begin to rely on the drug mentally and physically to do work and even in the end to get out of bed for some people. This dependance can lead to worse results in the end.

NONE of this is certain... they are risk factors but pretty high ones. NONE of these apply if the drug is prescribed for ADHD as these people react to the drug differently'

Personally I'd give it a miss

Sorry but this is a really misinformed post.

First of all Ritalin is not an amphetamine.

Second of all both normal people and ADHD people react exactly the same to the drug, it's just that it brings ADHD people back to a 'normal' level, whereas it takes people from a 'normal' level to a 'higher' level.

ADHD is also very subjective, there is no definitive boundary between someone with ADHD and someone without.

Of course you can get addicted to drugs, including Ritalin if you abuse them in recreational as opposed to therapeutic amounts.

And yes there are risks with all drugs. Ritalin is given to children for christ's sake and people take it every day of their lives.

And the risk factors are exactly the same for people who are prescribed it, they don't have a magic tolerance to the negative side-effects.

[CantThinkOfaUsername]

If you don't want your parents to know, it might be best to specifically ask your doctor not to tell them. What everyone else is saying about doctor-patient confidentiality is true, but I've found that doctors (and nurses and receptionists for that matter) can quite often disregard the whole confidentiality thing without a reminder. I was in and out of hospital quite a bit last year, mainly to get tests done and every time someone phoned up to give the results, they asked to speak to my parents not to me; one time they also rang my parents to randomly ask about my eating habits even though they'd never asked me anything like that, or asked for permission to ring my parents. The results etc. weren't anything personal, and it definitely wasn't that I posed a risk to anyone else or to myself; I'm 18 but happen to look younger so it was a simple case of them forgetting about confidentiality and just assuming I wouldn't mind. My point is that doctors do have to follow confidentiality rules but if you are worried about others finding out, make sure to remind your doctor as sometimes, they easily forget.

[kratos90]

(Original post by Ayesha.Tabassam95)
Is it not dodgy though getting it off the internet?!

It can be.

[catoswyn]

(Original post by kratos90)
Sorry but this is a really misinformed post.

First of all Ritalin is not an amphetamine.

Second of all both normal people and ADHD people react exactly the same to the drug, it's just that it brings ADHD people back to a 'normal' level, whereas it takes people from a 'normal' level to a 'higher' level.

ADHD is also very subjective, there is no definitive boundary between someone with ADHD and someone without.

Of course you can get addicted to drugs, including Ritalin if you abuse them in recreational as opposed to therapeutic amounts.

And yes there are risks with all drugs. Ritalin is given to children for christ's sake and people take it every day of their lives.

And the risk factors are exactly the same for people who are prescribed it, they don't have a magic tolerance to the negative side-effects.

Sorry, I've probably put it badly. So far as I understand it Ritalin acts in the same manner as an amphetamine. I agree the risk factors are the same for people with ADHD as for those without but as you state the effects of the drug are different on each group. ie. it stabilises one group and lifts the other higher. The risk factors among the prescribed drug group are lower due to the fact they are medically monitored and assessed throughout. Yes, the drug is given to children... with ADHD, under medical supervision. It doesn't follow from this that we can assume its safety for use by other groups outside of medical supervision.

I don't think my post was misinformed. Apart from not making clear Ritalin acts like an amphetamine rather than being in its class, (sorry!) my points stand really. The risk factors ARE lower for the medically prescribed group, not of course as you point out, because they have a magic tolerance but because they are medically monitored and can be prescribed an alternative if necessary. This medical montioring in effect reduces risk factors NOT the reaction itself if it should occur. In saying there is less likelihood of Ritalin having the stated reactions in ADHD patients than in non ADHD, I think I'm actually supported by research. ADHD patients rather than reporting side effects such as getting too high or fast for instance often complain that they feel tired and lack energy. This makes sense if you realise the two groups are not starting with the same brain chemistry in the first place and in that case there is nothing illogical in different groups experiencing drugs acting differently.

As you say yourself: '
Second of all both normal people and ADHD people react exactly the same to the drug, it's just that it brings ADHD people back to a 'normal' level, whereas it takes people from a 'normal' level to a 'higher' level.'

So they don't react exactly the same to the drug do they ... it has a different effect on each group as you yourself clearly point out.


My post was really aimed at those who are thinking of using Ritalin as a recreational drug and therefore my points stand I think as to the potential dangers for users in this group.

[kratos90]

(Original post by catoswyn)
Sorry, I've probably put it badly. So far as I understand it Ritalin acts in the same manner as an amphetamine. I agree the risk factors are the same for people with ADHD as for those without but as you state the effects of the drug are different on each group. ie. it stabilises one group and lifts the other higher. The risk factors among the prescribed drug group are lower due to the fact they are medically monitored and assessed throughout. Yes, the drug is given to children... with ADHD, under medical supervision. It doesn't follow from this that we can assume its safety for use by other groups outside of medical supervision.

I don't think my post was misinformed. Apart from not making clear Ritalin acts like an amphetamine rather than being in its class, (sorry!) my points stand really. The risk factors ARE lower for the medically prescribed group, not of course as you point out, because they have a magic tolerance but because they are medically monitored and can be prescribed an alternative if necessary. This medical montioring in effect reduces risk factors NOT the reaction itself if it should occur. In saying there is less likelihood of Ritalin having the stated reactions in ADHD patients than in non ADHD, I think I'm actually supported by research. ADHD patients rather than reporting side effects such as getting too high or fast for instance often complain that they feel tired and lack energy. This makes sense if you realise the two groups are not starting with the same brain chemistry in the first place and in that case there is nothing illogical in different groups experiencing drugs acting differently.

As you say yourself: '
Second of all both normal people and ADHD people react exactly the same to the drug, it's just that it brings ADHD people back to a 'normal' level, whereas it takes people from a 'normal' level to a 'higher' level.'

So they don't react exactly the same to the drug do they ... it has a different effect on each group as you yourself clearly point out.


My post was really aimed at those who are thinking of using Ritalin as a recreational drug and therefore my points stand I think as to the potential dangers for users in this group.

Yes there are potential dangers of Ritalin.

[catoswyn]

(Original post by kratos90)
OK but no one really knows how they would react so no one can judge it without taking it for themselves, because everyone reacts differently. Even those with ADHD, for some it makes it worse others better. Research is often flawed too and there is no way a research paper can tell you what will happen to you if you take.

I get checkups, have never had any problems, only positives. I personally prefer to read anecdotal evidence and try things for myself to weigh up the pros and cons.

I'm not criticising your life choices.. that's completely up to you. I think though that I probably take a different approach to the 'suck it and see' drug taking method and prefer to know the potential risk factors whether that be via anecdotal reports or research data and preferably a combination of both. I'm really glad to hear you're having no bad effects yourself!

Are you hoping to get it prescribed by the doctor by the way? If so you'd have to convince him you had ADHD or similar condition.

I would personally be very wary of telling any doctor about this. I know how it is all supposed to work and you'd think they'd listen in a neutral fashion. It won't necessarily be the case. The doctor is likely to hear 'I've been buying a class B drug off the internet and taking it recreationally'. This is even if you explain the situation in other terms.

In my experience what will happen next is that a note may be put in your medical records warning that you are a potential abuser of drugs. Nine times out of ten this may not matter but it can affect medicals for jobs, the GP's willingness to prescribe you other drugs when you are ill (they may be issued in tiny amounts, or you will be forced to see a GP every time you collect them etc) You could find the practice may seek to strike you off their books for the least thing in future. In short what seems to you to be a relatively harmless experiment will, to medical professionals, run the risk of being treated as a illegal drugs problem. It may affect the way you are treated ever afterwards by medical personnel. Not saying any of this is definite.... you may have little fall out long term... but they will at least be obliged to record this incident in your notes and doctors aren't famed for their love of people self-prescribing!

Anyway, good luck whatever you decide.

[tdawe]

(Original post by catoswyn)
Sorry, I've probably put it badly. So far as I understand it Ritalin acts in the same manner as an amphetamine. I agree the risk factors are the same for people with ADHD as for those without but as you state the effects of the drug are different on each group. ie. it stabilises one group and lifts the other higher. The risk factors among the prescribed drug group are lower due to the fact they are medically monitored and assessed throughout. Yes, the drug is given to children... with ADHD, under medical supervision. It doesn't follow from this that we can assume its safety for use by other groups outside of medical supervision.

I don't think my post was misinformed. Apart from not making clear Ritalin acts like an amphetamine rather than being in its class, (sorry!) my points stand really. The risk factors ARE lower for the medically prescribed group, not of course as you point out, because they have a magic tolerance but because they are medically monitored and can be prescribed an alternative if necessary. This medical montioring in effect reduces risk factors NOT the reaction itself if it should occur. In saying there is less likelihood of Ritalin having the stated reactions in ADHD patients than in non ADHD, I think I'm actually supported by research. ADHD patients rather than reporting side effects such as getting too high or fast for instance often complain that they feel tired and lack energy. This makes sense if you realise the two groups are not starting with the same brain chemistry in the first place and in that case there is nothing illogical in different groups experiencing drugs acting differently.

As you say yourself: '
Second of all both normal people and ADHD people react exactly the same to the drug, it's just that it brings ADHD people back to a 'normal' level, whereas it takes people from a 'normal' level to a 'higher' level.'

So they don't react exactly the same to the drug do they ... it has a different effect on each group as you yourself clearly point out.


My post was really aimed at those who are thinking of using Ritalin as a recreational drug and therefore my points stand I think as to the potential dangers for users in this group.

You are still very uninformed, Ritalin (methylphenidate) and amphetamines have very different pharmacological profiles. Methylphenidate is a dopamine-noradrenalin reuptake inhibitor and amphetamine is a dopamine releasing agent. Whilst this can create a similar effect it is done by a very different biological pathway. Methylphenidate's method of action is the same as cocaine, not amphetamine.

And people with ADHD and people without it will still react biologically identically to the drug. It's difficult to make sweeping statements about 'normal' people getting higher et cetera, as ADHD and its causes aren't very well understood.

[catoswyn]

(Original post by tdawe)
You are still very uninformed, Ritalin (methylphenidate) and amphetamines have very different pharmacological profiles. Methylphenidate is a dopamine-noradrenalin reuptake inhibitor and amphetamine is a dopamine releasing agent. Whilst this can create a similar effect it is done by a very different biological pathway. Methylphenidate's method of action is the same as cocaine, not amphetamine.

And people with ADHD and people without it will still react biologically identically to the drug. It's difficult to make sweeping statements about 'normal' people getting higher et cetera, as ADHD and its causes aren't very well understood.

Thanks for clarifying the pharmacological profile. It is slightly irrelevant though for the purposes of what I am trying to communicate which is that making assumptions about the safety of a drug by drawing one's conclusion from the group, in this case ADHD sufferers, that take the drug under medical supervision is illogical. The fact it is given to children under medical supervision and after they have been diagnosed with a certain disorder is no guide to its safety in other groups. I do understand that ADHD is little understood and I mentioned this in my first post. I was merely seeking to distinguish in my post that there may be good reasons for some individuals to take this drug if they suffer from ADHD that may not hold true for others.

People will not react identically to the drug however. This isn't correct and is never correct for any drug. I think you are confusing the biological action that takes place with the reaction of the individual (or group of individuals with a certain profile) to a drug. There is always variation of effect or we wouldn't need doctors in the first place.... ie a Beta blocker will operate in terms of method exactly the same in one patient as in another but it would have a positive effect on the patient with high blood pressure and a different outcome if given to one with low blood pressure.

[catoswyn]

(Original post by tdawe)
You are still very uninformed, Ritalin (methylphenidate) and amphetamines have very different pharmacological profiles. Methylphenidate is a dopamine-noradrenalin reuptake inhibitor and amphetamine is a dopamine releasing agent. Whilst this can create a similar effect it is done by a very different biological pathway. Methylphenidate's method of action is the same as cocaine, not amphetamine.

And people with ADHD and people without it will still react biologically identically to the drug. It's difficult to make sweeping statements about 'normal' people getting higher et cetera, as ADHD and its causes aren't very well understood.

Ignoring the METHOD of action the end result is the same... more Dopamine available. So as you say a similar effect and for the purposes of the point I was trying to make about possible side effects and dangers pretty irrelevant. Who cares if you're set on fire by a match or a lighter... you are still on fire! Thanks for clarifying the pharmacological aspect though... very interesting.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

As long as you haven't done something illegal that would be in the intrest of the police and your partents i.e killed someone, then due to confidentiality they will not tell anyone. However it will be on your medical record i think.

[tdawe]

(Original post by catoswyn)
Thanks for clarifying the pharmacological profile. It is slightly irrelevant though for the purposes of what I am trying to communicate which is that making assumptions about the safety of a drug by drawing one's conclusion from the group, in this case ADHD sufferers, that take the drug under medical supervision is illogical. The fact it is given to children under medical supervision and after they have been diagnosed with a certain disorder is no guide to its safety in other groups. I do understand that ADHD is little understood and I mentioned this in my first post. I was merely seeking to distinguish in my post that there may be good reasons for some individuals to take this drug if they suffer from ADHD that may not hold true for others.

People will not react biologically identically to the drug however. This isn't correct and is never correct for any drug. I think you are confusing the biological action that takes place with the reaction of the individual (or group of individuals with a certain profile) to a drug. There is always variation of effect or we wouldn't need doctors in the first place.... ie a Beta blocker will operate in terms of method exactly the same in one patient as in another but it would have a positive effect on the patient with high blood pressure and a different outcome if given to one with low blood pressure.

Fair point on the second thing you said, just realised how wrong I was on that: a failure of wording, I did indeed mean method of action would be identical.

Also, sorry if the wording in the other post came across as a little condescending, just re read it!

[catoswyn]

(Original post by tdawe)
Fair point on the second thing you said, just realised how wrong I was on that: a failure of wording, I did indeed mean method of action would be identical.

Also, sorry if the wording in the other post came across as a little condescending, just re read it!

Hey, no probs... I was genuinely pleased to hear the exact pharmacological definitions and action as I'd obviously completely got the wrong end of the stick on it, so thanks!

[sammy93]

Be careful if you ever go for a job or anything that needs a doctors letter. Mine loves too include 'she is to be commended for getting over her substance misuse troubles' because it says on the computer I received drugs counselling when I was 14-15. As well as a couple of paragraphs on mental health problems I used to have - even though they weren't willing to help me in any way at the time. Hate my doctors!

[Wave]

(Original post by kratos90)
zzzzz, I've got 4A's at A-level, 10A*'s/A's at GCSE and about to get a top degree from a top university, guess I could do with Ritalin dumbing me down a bit, since everyone knows that is what everyone takes it for

Well done you passed some exams. Your grades aren't even that special (GCSEs are piss easy and most smart people get all As at A level) and seeing as you never specified I'm gonna guess the top university isn't quite Oxbridge so don't get bigheaded now

[tufc]

They can't tell your parents after you're 16. And I find it highly unlikely they would tell the Police.