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Afghan Qur'an burning at Bagram sparks fresh protests

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    Kill innocents - Coolstorybro
    Women's rights? - Lolbro
    Burn a book - Theresaspecialplaceinhellforyoub ro
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    (Original post by rawkus)
    I too think it is silly that people kill each other and invest so much emotion into an abstract concept such as religion. But I too dont understand the equal violence and emotion invested into ethnicity and nationality. However, for some people national traditions are very important and I respect that. Equally, for some people it is tradition that a holy book be treated with respect and as it is of no detriment to me, I too will respect this. I am not making any such comment on the killings, that is utterly deplorable. Instead I am tackling your later comments where you make patronising comments about the act of burning what you deem to be "just a book".
    It is just a book though.

    I do rather like the British flag, I'd take offence to someone burning it, but at the end of the day, it's just a flag. If someone doesn't have the good sense to see such things then they will never have any of my respect, infact they will have nought but contempt from me.
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    (Original post by Bellissima)
    i don't think anyone is saying that is excusable behaviour... but those americans knew exactly what they were doing. they knew it would be offensive, they knew people would get angry.. and there would probably be violence. i don't think these americans who did this are just as bad, but they're getting close.
    Who cares if it's offensive? Nobody has the right to not be offended.
    The Afghans are entirely responsible for those deaths. Not the Americans.
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    (Original post by Darkphilosopher)
    Who cares if it's offensive? Nobody has the right to not be offended.
    The Afghans are entirely responsible for those deaths. Not the Americans.
    i think the americans are partly to blame as they KNEW this would be the reaction if these people found out about what they had done. they should not have done it. i am also pretty sure that there was some provocation in what they did. i am not at all justifying the reaction from the afghans or saying it is reasonable... but they are going to act that way. it has happened countless times before. the americans are not faultless here.

    if you take a stick and poke a live wasps nest, you know they are going to come out and sting you... it's partly your fault... i would call someone an idiot for doing that and i think those americans are stupid for doing what they did.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Who caused millions of deaths in Afghanistan? I think you will find its the Taliban killing thousands of Afghans. Its not the US sowing IEDs throughout the country.
    And these "stats" are according to the UN.

    A million people didn't die or have their lives destroyed before the US invaded.

    (Original post by Nick100)
    Ten years after the fact? And surely if the Taliban are having a busy recruiting week the Afghans aren't "waking up"?
    Not really. I'm pretty sure the whole purpose is to drive US out. Regardless of how people percieve the Taliban, they're alot better then what Karzai or the US are currently doing. Their strength is in the fact that, when they ruled, there was law and order, unlike right now, where corruption and crime is strife. And ofcourse there's the fact that Afghan aren't necassarily stupid to believe that the Taliban are "against womens education".

    And whilst Taliban had plenty of support, they didn't have enough people to necassarily take action against the US. I guess with the US offending the very heart of the nation, things are likely to change. We'll see.
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    (Original post by ajtiesto)
    I hope every Nato, American and British troops get killed by the Taliban!
    Yes, let's support the superstitious extremists. Oh, wait.
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    (Original post by Bellissima)
    those americans are ****ing morons, i hate people like that... "oh it was just an accident"... yeah right.. more like a provocation, they thought they were being clever and funny.. retards.
    Do grow up, dear. Burning is the standard method used for destroying these types of documents that are used for communication between enemies.
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    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    And these "stats" are according to the UN.

    A million people didn't die or have their lives destroyed before the US invaded.
    A million people didn't die or have their lives destroyed after the US invaded. The war didn't start with the US invasion by the way; Afghanistan was already in a civil war.

    Not really. I'm pretty sure the whole purpose is to drive US out. Regardless of how people percieve the Taliban, they're alot better then what Karzai or the US are currently doing. Their strength is in the fact that, when they ruled, there was law and order, unlike right now, where corruption and crime is strife. And ofcourse there's the fact that Afghan aren't necassarily stupid to believe that the Taliban are "against womens education".

    And whilst Taliban had plenty of support, they didn't have enough people to necassarily take action against the US. I guess with the US offending the very heart of the nation, things are likely to change. We'll see.
    The Taliban created one of the worst governments on Earth, surpassing even the DPRK in terms of oppression, insanity and brutality. They are totalitarians; they do not bring law and order and were perfectly happy to engage in smuggling and human trafficking even when in government. And the Taliban were against women's rights and since the invasion of Afghanistan the number of girls in education has increased by 5000%. And the US wants to leave Afghanistan, the only reason they're still involved is because they need to prevent the Taliban maniacs from regaining control.
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    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    Yes, because technically, if someone invaded your land and caused the deaths of millions and destroyed the lifes of thousands, you would usually "wake up" you know?

    Anyways, it looks like Taliban will have a busy recruiting week.
    why, are you taking over uk recruitment?
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    (Original post by Nick100)
    A million people didn't die or have their lives destroyed after the US invaded. The war didn't start with the US invasion by the way; Afghanistan was already in a civil war.



    The Taliban created one of the worst governments on Earth, surpassing even the DPRK in terms of oppression, insanity and brutality. They are totalitarians; they do not bring law and order and were perfectly happy to engage in smuggling and human trafficking even when in government. And the Taliban were against women's rights and since the invasion of Afghanistan the number of girls in education has increased by 5000%. And the US wants to leave Afghanistan, the only reason they're still involved is because they need to prevent the Taliban maniacs from regaining control.
    For your own sake, I would recommend you read this - Life with Taliban
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    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    And these "stats" are according to the UN.

    A million people didn't die or have their lives destroyed before the US invaded.



    Not really. I'm pretty sure the whole purpose is to drive US out. Regardless of how people percieve the Taliban, they're alot better then what Karzai or the US are currently doing. Their strength is in the fact that, when they ruled, there was law and order, unlike right now, where corruption and crime is strife. And ofcourse there's the fact that Afghan aren't necassarily stupid to believe that the Taliban are "against womens education".

    And whilst Taliban had plenty of support, they didn't have enough people to necassarily take action against the US. I guess with the US offending the very heart of the nation, things are likely to change. We'll see.
    , yes it is the UN, post statistics or your opinion is worthless
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    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    For your own sake, I would recommend you read this - Life with Taliban
    Forgive me for being skeptical about a book which talks about the Americans "carpet bombing" Afghan cities. Why did the Afghan economy collapse under the Taliban? Why did so few girls go into education? Why were women so oppressed? Were they responsible for none of these things?
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    , yes it is the UN, post statistics or your opinion is worthless
    Yes because the UN are reliable. Completly in compliance with the rising and widespread support the Taliban are getting, for "killing" innocents.


    KABUL: The Taliban’s reclusive leader Mullah Umar said in a Muslim holiday message on Friday that his fighters must protect Afghan civilians, who are dying in rising numbers, so the insurgency can maintain good relations with the population.

    Mullah Muhammad Umar posted his message on the Taliban’s website ahead of next week’s Eidul Azha, or Feast of Sacrifice, when Muslims around the world slaughter sheep and cattle in remembrance of Prophet Ibrahim’s (AS) near-sacrifice of his son.

    In a midyear report, the UN said 1,462 Afghan civilians were killed in the crossfire between Taliban insurgents and Afghan, US and NATO forces during the first half of this year — up 15 percent from the same period a year earlier.

    The UN report attributed 80 percent of the civilian deaths to insurgents and others fighting against the Afghan government. International troops and other pro-government forces were to blame for 14 percent of the deaths; six percent were not attributed to any side.

    Omar said civilian casualties must be extensively investigated.

    “If it is irrefutably proven that the blood of innocent Muslims is spilled by the negligence of mujahedeen, then a penalty should be implemented in accordance with Shariah (Islamic law) and all steps should be taken to seek the pardon” of those affected by the killings, he said.

    Omar said civilians also need to take steps to keep themselves safe.

    “The common folk should avoid moving in close proximity to Americans that patrol in villages and countryside because they are being targeted by the insurgents,” he said.

    The message, which the Taliban posted in English and other languages, was reported by the US-based SITE Intel Group, which tracks militant websites.

    http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...-11-2011_pg7_5



    (Original post by Nick100)
    Forgive me for being skeptical about a book which talks about the Americans "carpet bombing" Afghan cities. Why did the Afghan economy collapse under the Taliban? Why did so few girls go into education? Why were women so oppressed? Were they responsible for none of these things?
    If you actually done some background check, that book is far more commendable than anything you've heard on Taliban.

    It's actually from someone who went to meet the Taliban face to face, not base their crap on what will be make good propoganda news headlines.

    If you're going to be ignorant then don't bother quoting me.



    "Now you’ve asked me about the rights of women’s education and the rights of women’s work. Unlike what is said here, women do work in Afghanistan. You’re right that until 1997 I mean, in 1996 when we captured the capitol Kabul, we did ask women to stay home. It didn’t mean that we wanted them to stay at home forever, but nobody listened to us. We said that there is no law, and there is no order, and have to stay at home. They were raped before us, everyday. So, after we disarmed the people, and after we brought law and order, and now women are working. You are right that women are not working in the ministry of defense, like here. We don’t want our women to be fighter pilot[s], or to be used as objects of decoration for advertisements. But they do work. They work in the Ministry of Health, Interior, Ministry of Education, Ministry of Social Affairs, and so on.

    So, and we don’t have any problem with women’s education. We have said that we want education, and we will have education whether or not we are under anybody’s pressure, because that is part of our belief. We are ordered to do that. When we say that there should be segregated schools, it does not mean that we don’t want our women to be educated.

    It is true that we are against co-education; but it is not true that we are against women’s education. We do have schools even now, but the problem is the resources. We cannot expand these programs. Before, our government there were numerous curriculums that were going on; there were curriculums which preached the king for the kings, and there were curriculums which preached for the communists, and there were curriculums from all these seven parties [the previously mentioned]. So, the Students were confused as to what to study, and the first we have done today is to unify that curriculum, and that’s going on. But we are criticized, and we say that instead of criticism, if you just help us once, that will make a difference. Because criticism will not make a difference. If you criticise from New York, thousands of miles away, we don’t care. But if you come there and help us, we do care.

    Actually there are more girls students studying in the faculty of medical sciences than boys are
    . This is not me who is saying this, it is the United Nations who has announced this.

    Recently we reopened the faculty of medical science in all major cities of Afghanistan and in Kandahar, there are more girl students than boys! But they are segregated. And the Swedish committees have also established schools for girls. I know they are not enough, but that’s what we can do. So, that is what I say that we have restored. I don’t say we are 100% perfect, and nobody will say that they are 100% perfect. We do have shortcomings, and we do need to amend our policies. But we can t do everything over night".

    http://www.themodernreligion.com/jih...an/speech.html
    Also might want to read this, although I don't agree with everything it says, it's a western source that re-iliterates parts of the above - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...1336352.html?m





    Most of what you hear about "acid on women" or "blowing up schools" etc. Is not true at all. Just a tiny bit of common sense, their support would not exist if they were responsible for such things.

    There are many bandits/criminals that do things (as corruption is strife in Afghanistan right now) and shift the blame on Taliban, when they have no connection to them whatsoever.

    It's the same for the pakistan taliban, they are a seperate group from the Afghan taliban, yet people continue to mix them and affiliate them.

    As for the economy, you're forgetting the sanctions Afghanistan faced.

    End of the day, I don't really care what you think, truth will prevail as it always does.
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    On topic -

    Enraged protesters kills 10 NATO invaders, injure more than 100 local puppets



    NANGARHAR, Feb. 23 - Popular protests against desecration of Holy Quran has drawn thousands of angry Afghans to the streets for the third straight day throughout the country.

    According to the reports from Nangarhar province, Afghan people in Khogaini district of the province carried out a large-scale protest this morning against the burning of the copies of the Holy Quran by the US invaders in Bagram Airbase chanting anti-US slogans.

    The enraged protesters stormed a large army base of the US-NATO invaders from where the invaders and their locals opened fire on the demonstrators, at same time, a soldier, out of the true spirit of faith, opposed to the firing by the security forces and the invaders on the protesters.

    Meanwhile, the Afghan soldier fired back on US-NATO invades killing more than 10 invaders and wounds scores of them; however, the soldier was shot and injured by the invaders who managed to leave the scene and join the protesters in a serious condition and yet again kept firing at the foreign invaders.





    Witnesses to the scene say that more than hundred of the Afghan security forces have been killed and wounded by invading soldiers who fired in exchange of the said soldier attack on the invaders. It is unclear how many of the ANA soldiers have been killed or wounded in the hostile fire by the US-NATO forces, but to put it roughly more than hundreds of the ANA soldiers were killed or wounded



    Likewise, the thousands of the fiercest protesters in the city of Maimana, the capital of Faryab burst into the NATO army base and PRT base killing 6 NATO soldiers and wounded several more as well as burning more than 15 military tanks vehicles and supply trucks, whereas more than 30 demonstrators were martyred and several more got hurt in the hostile fire by the invaders.



    Separately, an angry protest was reported in Uruzgan province in which hundreds of the protesters got into the NATO base who were intercepted by the Afghan-NATO forces. At least 15 demonstrators have reportedly been wounded and 5 more were martyred in the hostile fire by the invaders and their puppets, the report added.



    Meantime, there have been the fiercest protests against the worst blasphemy, in what the US invaders burned the copies of Holy Quran, in several parts of Nangarhar, Kabul, Logar, Laghman, in Northern provinces and areas of the country such as in Baghlan, Juzjan, Parwan, Takhar provinces and so many other places across the country for the past three days.











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    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    Yes because the UN are reliable. Completly in compliance with the rising and widespread support the Taliban are getting, for "killing" innocents.


    KABUL: The Taliban’s reclusive leader Mullah Umar said in a Muslim holiday message on Friday that his fighters must protect Afghan civilians, who are dying in rising numbers, so the insurgency can maintain good relations with the population.

    Mullah Muhammad Umar posted his message on the Taliban’s website ahead of next week’s Eidul Azha, or Feast of Sacrifice, when Muslims around the world slaughter sheep and cattle in remembrance of Prophet Ibrahim’s (AS) near-sacrifice of his son.

    In a midyear report, the UN said 1,462 Afghan civilians were killed in the crossfire between Taliban insurgents and Afghan, US and NATO forces during the first half of this year — up 15 percent from the same period a year earlier.

    The UN report attributed 80 percent of the civilian deaths to insurgents and others fighting against the Afghan government. International troops and other pro-government forces were to blame for 14 percent of the deaths; six percent were not attributed to any side.

    Omar said civilian casualties must be extensively investigated.

    “If it is irrefutably proven that the blood of innocent Muslims is spilled by the negligence of mujahedeen, then a penalty should be implemented in accordance with Shariah (Islamic law) and all steps should be taken to seek the pardon” of those affected by the killings, he said.

    Omar said civilians also need to take steps to keep themselves safe.

    “The common folk should avoid moving in close proximity to Americans that patrol in villages and countryside because they are being targeted by the insurgents,” he said.

    The message, which the Taliban posted in English and other languages, was reported by the US-based SITE Intel Group, which tracks militant websites.

    http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...-11-2011_pg7_5





    If you actually done some background check, that book is far more commendable than anything you've heard on Taliban.

    It's actually from someone who went to meet the Taliban face to face, not base their crap on what will be make good propoganda news headlines.

    If you're going to be ignorant then don't bother quoting me.



    Also might want to read this, although I don't agree with everything it says, it's a western source that re-iliterates parts of the above - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...1336352.html?m





    Most of what you hear about "acid on women" or "blowing up schools" etc. Is not true at all. Just a tiny bit of common sense, their support would not exist if they were responsible for such things.

    There are many bandits/criminals that do things (as corruption is strife in Afghanistan right now) and shift the blame on Taliban, when they have no connection to them whatsoever.

    It's the same for the pakistan taliban, they are a seperate group from the Afghan taliban, yet people continue to mix them and affiliate them.

    As for the economy, you're forgetting the sanctions Afghanistan faced.

    End of the day, I don't really care what you think, truth will prevail as it always does.
    I missed where it says anywhere in any of this that NATO and the US had killed millions of Afghans
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    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    If you actually done some background check, that book is far more commendable than anything you've heard on Taliban.

    It's actually from someone who went to meet the Taliban face to face, not base their crap on what will be make good propoganda news headlines.

    If you're going to be ignorant then don't bother quoting me.
    The book isn't from someone who went to meet the Taliban face to face; it is from one of their members. And the fact that it refers to carpet bombing which did not occur does cast doubt on its reliability; it means that the author is willing to make gross exaggerations to make a point. If the Taliban weren't against women in education, why were there so few women in education?

    And why did they destroy the Buddha statues at Bamyan, if not because they are fanatical religious nutcases?

    Also might want to read this, although I don't agree with everything it says, it's a western source that re-iliterates parts of the above - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...1336352.html?m





    Most of what you hear about "acid on women" or "blowing up schools" etc. Is not true at all. Just a tiny bit of common sense, their support would not exist if they were responsible for such things.

    There are many bandits/criminals that do things (as corruption is strife in Afghanistan right now) and shift the blame on Taliban, when they have no connection to them whatsoever.

    It's the same for the pakistan taliban, they are a seperate group from the Afghan taliban, yet people continue to mix them and affiliate them.

    As for the economy, you're forgetting the sanctions Afghanistan faced.

    End of the day, I don't really care what you think, truth will prevail as it always does.
    Given that there are other examples of wars where the most brutal side has had most support, the fact that they have support does not mean that they don't commit atrocities. Why were people supporting the Northern Alliance against the Taliban, in that case?

    The Afghan economy tanked entirely because Taliban economic policy sucked; they were the ones who raised taxes and put tariffs on imports.
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    Surely they have the right to burn those korans
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    American girl apologises to President Karzai, in my opinion the apology is for better than obamas

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=ZYEctbGSkkw

    Absolutely epic.

    Sarah Palin has condemned Obama. that woman must carry her balls around in a wheelbarrow,more balls than many of her male counterparts.She is someone who should be called president.

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012...2-us-soldiers/
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    It is just a book though.

    I do rather like the British flag, I'd take offence to someone burning it, but at the end of the day, it's just a flag. If someone doesn't have the good sense to see such things then they will never have any of my respect, infact they will have nought but contempt from me.
    What about if, in an alternate world, the UK became lawless and occupied by Iran under the guise of restoring order. This occupation, whether for positive reasons or not, had become associated with several documented abuses from Iranian soldiers. Then, it soon was revealed that English flags had been burnt or desecrated. Even if you arent some ultra nationalist who views the English flag as some sort of divine object, surely you would take this act as being symbolic of oppression and therefore extremely pissed?
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    (Original post by ajtiesto)
    I hope every Nato, American and British troops get killed by the Taliban!
    I agree man. NATO imperialism has to be right a lesson!

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