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Afghan Qur'an burning at Bagram sparks fresh protests

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Reply 80
Original post by Aj12
Bit of a poor example. The Americans did not burn the original and only Quran. They burnt a number of them that had been used by insurgents to communicate. Yes it was a fairly offensive gesture though not a deliberate one but that hardly warrants the response its gotten from parts of the Afghan population.


Hmm, okay. Well can you first quote the part where I suggested that the burning of the Quran warranted the response that it has gotten? I don't think I did, I instead wrote the opposite, making your comment somewhat pointless.

It is a fine example. In a material sense, they are both merely documents and both's destruction has and would elicit a deadly response from the populations that it is relevant to. Now I hold some sceptism that fundamentalist Muslims would draw all over a book that they hold to be really holy. At the same time I realise that if soldiers were going to desecrate the Quran, they could probably think of more disrespectful ways than merely burning it. Whatever happened, I dont know. What I was trying to do was to go some way to offering an explanation for the riots, not a justification.

Also you are quite right. Burning the Quran and burning the Consitution are not exactly the same. But it wouldn't be a comparison if I was comparing two things that were exactly the same thing. They are however similar. Both are revered by their populations. True that there is only one Constitution and many Qurans, but I fail to see how this makes it an invalid comparison in the context of the point I was making? Is it also invalid because one was originally written in Arabic and one in English despite this not bearing any relevance on my point also?
Reply 81
Original post by rawkus
Hmm, okay. Well can you first quote the part where I suggested that the burning of the Quran warranted the response that it has gotten? I don't think I did, I instead wrote the opposite, making your comment somewhat pointless.

It is a fine example. In a material sense, they are both merely documents and both's destruction has and would elicit a deadly response from the populations that it is relevant to. Now I hold some sceptism that fundamentalist Muslims would draw all over a book that they hold to be really holy. At the same time I realise that if soldiers were going to desecrate the Quran, they could probably think of more disrespectful ways than merely burning it. Whatever happened, I dont know. What I was trying to do was to go some way to offering an explanation for the riots, not a justification.

Also you are quite right. Burning the Quran and burning the Consitution are not exactly the same. But it wouldn't be a comparison if I was comparing two things that were exactly the same thing. They are however similar. Both are revered by their populations. True that there is only one Constitution and many Qurans, but I fail to see how this makes it an invalid comparison in the context of the point I was making? Is it also invalid because one was originally written in Arabic and one in English despite this not bearing any relevance on my point also?


A better example surely would be burning a bible in the US or the US flag. The comparison would only be valid if the Quran burned was the only one in existence. Whilst both are important to their respective populations burning the one and only of something compared to burning a copy of something are going to elect different responses. I'm not really sure what you are trying to imply with the last point? I don't really care what language it was written in Arabic or English.
Reply 82
Original post by rawkus
I thought you had owned me at first, then I considered it a little.

First of all, what I have put to you is merely a theoretical idea. You do not have to consider the emotional effect of the adverse conditions that come with such "help". Im sure that there were a fair few who supported the west when they marched into Iraq and Afghanistan. But perhaps that was before they heard stories of taxi drivers and other innocents being carted away and never seen again. Perhaps it was before a rocket targeted one possible insurgent in a highly populated area killed several nieces or nephews. Perhaps it was before you had your doors kicked down, dog shot and having been humiliated in front of your whole family by soldiers conducting a random search for IEDs based either on the hearsay of a disgruntled neighbour, or worse, just a hunch. This sort of stuff would pretty quickly put me off the "liberators". Its easy to say that you could grin and bear this stuff for the time being in the name of liberation, but thats before the relative lawlessness kicks in.

Second, how do we know all the inhabitants of a country disliked the past system. Just because we have been born into a society that has drummed into us our rights to a relative level of free speech and freedom to act hedonistically doesnt mean others share our values. Im sure someone born into what we view as a repressive society will conform strongly to those ideals to the point that he, like us, view anything different as wrong.

Third. My first post was made in a bit of a rush so lets instead imagine a third party's reaction. Lets imagine the reaction of the populace of America to the news that the occupying Afghani forces burnt historical documents such as the constitution and bill of rights in order to stop them inspiring any sort of discontent against occupying forces. These objects are nothing more than old bits of paper and the words on them are easily replicated, but even so, how do you suspect America would react?


No, I wouldn't change my alleigance. I'd think to myself. 'Damn, I don;t like this, the sooner it's over the better. What they're doing makes me feel bad, but then I have to consider the fact that the people they're fighting just killed 10 people from my village in a bomb attack on a crowded market place, and how they planted IED's in the road that is ony my daughters way to school. I can understand why those soldiers do what they do, and although I hate it, it's reasonable from their point of view. I just wish the Taliban would stop using such dirty tactics, and inflicting suffering on us, the populace, because of their crazy wishes.'

That's a bit of a leap. We don;t view 'anything different' as wrong. Japan has a very different social system, cultural norms and even quite a different legal system, we don't view that as wrong. What we view as wrong are the open and oft violations of human rights, the supporting of international terror etc

What an absurd point. Amricans have never done such, and never would. However, if say, British prisoners has been writing on a Union Flag, to send messages between criminals, then it's burning, whilst a little offensive, would be perfectly legitimate, and I would see it as such.

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