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Work experience gate(your opinions)

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    Mine is that these placements are an excellent way to gain experience and learn the skills needed to actually get a job, however forcing people to work full time hours for £65 a week is absolutely shocking.


    My solution would be to reduce the placements to one day per week(possibly two) and therefore their job seeker's allowance becomes a fair wage for what they've actually worked.
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    I agree its shocking they hours they work for the little pay they recieve. At least give them minimum wage, we were talking about this in work the other day.
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    And think about it, it'll mean there are less jobs as some companys wont bother hiring full time staff if they know they can get a healthy supply of workers for literally free.
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    (Original post by dragon500uk)
    I agree its shocking they hours they work for the little pay they recieve. At least give them minimum wage, we were talking about this in work the other day.
    If you were to do that you would find there would be no jobs at all.
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    If you were to do that you would find there would be no jobs at all.
    Which is why I'm suggesting less hours do their JSA covers the NMW.
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    (Original post by Mr Dangermouse)
    Which is why I'm suggesting less hours do their JSA covers the NMW.
    So they keep some part of their JSA if they get a low paid job?
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    (Original post by Mr Dangermouse)
    Mine is that these placements are an excellent way to gain experience and learn the skills needed to actually get a job, however forcing people to work full time hours for £65 a week is absolutely shocking.
    Nobody is being forced, it is voluntary work experience.


    My solution would be to reduce the placements to one day per week(possibly two) and therefore their job seeker's allowance becomes a fair wage for what they've actually worked.
    It's not a wage for what they've worked. They are working for free (it's work experience) but are allowed to keep getitng their benefits on the side.

    I'd say the problem with your idea is that is that the program is designed to give people with no work experience the opportunity to prove themselves, to show they are capable of working and to get references. If they're only doing it one day per week it's not very much like a real job.

    Most people do one or two week's work experience when at school, unpaid, but I don't hear huge cries about the injustice of it.
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    (Original post by Mr Dangermouse)
    Mine is that these placements are an excellent way to gain experience and learn the skills needed to actually get a job, however forcing people to work full time hours for £65 a week is absolutely shocking.


    My solution would be to reduce the placements to one day per week(possibly two) and therefore their job seeker's allowance becomes a fair wage for what they've actually worked.
    I don't get it. You talk about £65 a week. I would not accept £65 an hour! Yet you lot seem to be for free borders and free immigration. What do you think this is going to do that the supply of labour and therefore your wages and prospects to get a job. I am already established and yet I am against free borders and immigration, but who knows my job might be offshored to somewhere or someone come to the country and do it for quarter the amount. I don't get why most of you are so prejudiced against the people who want to stop this madness.
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    (Original post by dragon500uk)
    And think about it, it'll mean there are less jobs as some companys wont bother hiring full time staff if they know they can get a healthy supply of workers for literally free.
    But on the whole they're getting poor quality workers who need to be trained up from scratch and then will leave in a few weeks. They're taking on people who, for whatever reason, have found themselves to be unemployable otherwise.

    I can't imaginge there's a huge net gain for most companies.
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    Nobody is being forced, it is voluntary work experience.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that was one of the things that was getting people's backs up wasn't it? That people who had these things lined up for them by the Job Centre were told that they had to take the job for their JSA, or they'd lose it entirely? Effectively forcing those on low/no income to work for JSA, when if they're working they should be paid Minimum wage?
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    There is an overweight woman near me who lives in the flats. She was put on the Government Work Programme by A4E, and was made to work at the newly built Tescos near the Saints stadium. for 40 hours per week for six weeks. The work that they made her do meant that she now has to go for physio for her knee, and she never got a job in the end. They also sanctioned her benefits pending investigation for not turning up one day (her knee was hurting badly).
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    (Original post by TheHistoryStudent)
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that was one of the things that was getting people's backs up wasn't it? That people who had these things lined up for them by the Job Centre were told that they had to take the job for their JSA, or they'd lose it entirely? Effectively forcing those on low/no income to work for JSA, when if they're working they should be paid Minimum wage?
    This.

    The Government calls it 'voluntary', what they fail to mention is that if you refuse you'll lose JSA. I'd hardly call that voluntary.

    The only reason this 'work experience' program exists is to circumvent minimum wage laws. It's basically modern day slave labour.

    I'd also agree with the poster who said this will mean less jobs. Why bother paying someone minimum wage, when you can get a steady stream of people on JSA to do it for free.
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    I was due to take part in an induction for one of these very work experience placements at ASDA today. Yesterday they called up to cancel (their whole national scheme has been axed).

    To address some points: Nobody at the Job Centre ever mentioned work experience to me. All the advisers had a list of the latest work experience opportunities in clear view on their desk. I read through it and asked if I was eligible. I chose three opportunities myself and they put my name down. No pressure from them, just me on myself to do everything I can to get a job.

    For the ASDA placement there was a group information session and an interview. I was honestly really looking forwards to the placement. I'm not bothered at all about the money because for me the experience, the new & recent reference and the chance to prove myself (not only to them but to myself) was priceless.

    Ive had one job before and two other work experiences (all with references) but for reasons beyond my control have not been in a position to work during the past couple of years. I have been receiving help from the Job Centre since September. I have a lot of GSCES, two ALevels and a BTEC. Ive just done a food hygeine Level 2 course and I'm doing a part time degree right now.

    I know there are pros and cons for this scheme. Up until yesterday I had already gained interview experience, a boost of confidence from being picked and self belief that yes I really am capable of doing this. I even felt that drive kick in after hearing one person from the last group on the scheme got hired I began to think, hey that just might be me if I work really hard. I am beyond disappointed the opportunity had been taken away. Job or no job at the end of it I know I would have been really proud of myself.

    The experience would have been 30 hours a week for three weeks, being rotated around the store so clothing, electrical, food, customer service, store greeting, warehouse, shelf stacking are the ones they mentioned (they also have jewellery, photo, cafe, pharmacy, various delis, bakery etc). I would have been getting a lot of experience for my time.

    Tesco have now said that they will pay people the minimum wage and give them a job at the end which I'm confused about because that basically seems like an actual job, with a trial/ training period? (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

    I understand the points about being exploited but I really feel like I would have gotten so much more from the scheme. The only thing I would have lost is my time and I have plenty of that. However whats not good is if these companies have been taking on work experience people and refusing their actual staff more hours. If I were an employee in that situation I'd be very angry. Especially if I had a mortgage and children etc.

    Anyway I feel like I knew exactly what I was getting my self into and was looking forwards to it. I think its a shame more people like me wont get to have this experience now. I hope they can resolve the problem by satisfying the financial side for everyone, but not at the expense of the quality and volume of much needed opportunities.
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    (Original post by Empire08)
    This.

    The Government calls it 'voluntary', what they fail to mention is that if you refuse you'll lose JSA. I'd hardly call that voluntary.

    The only reason this 'work experience' program exists is to circumvent minimum wage laws. It's basically modern day slave labour.

    I'd also agree with the poster who said this will mean less jobs. Why bother paying someone minimum wage, when you can get a steady stream of people on JSA to do it for free.
    We're talking about two different things. There is the Mandatory Work Activity which people have to do, or the scheme that has been in the news recently that offers voluntary work experience. I assumed the OP was talking about the latter.

    The former is for people who need 'encouragement' to go back to work - a nice way of saying people who aren't really making much effort to get a job. They work up to 30 hours per week for four weeks for a company or charity.

    Less than 120 hours' work experience for the long term unemployed is hardly draconian and, in many cases, will be in their own best interest.
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    (Original post by Empire08)
    This.

    The Government calls it 'voluntary', what they fail to mention is that if you refuse you'll lose JSA. I'd hardly call that voluntary.

    The only reason this 'work experience' program exists is to circumvent minimum wage laws. It's basically modern day slave labour.

    I'd also agree with the poster who said this will mean less jobs. Why bother paying someone minimum wage, when you can get a steady stream of people on JSA to do it for free.
    I don't see why the right would like it either. You're basically looking at a system where the state is providing the wage and expenses of labour for one company, paid for in part through tax revenue their competitors pay into.

    Assuming the govt doesn’t mind this you then enter the bizarre world where if you tried to repeat this by organising your own work experience at a charity you would be forced to work under 16 hours or lose your JSA. If you organised an unpaid internship at a for-profit company then you would most likely not be able to claim jsa. The amount of phone calls I had whilst working for my local MP from young people who had JSA taken off them because they admitted to volunteering their time to get experience was insane.
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    I think if people are going to do work experience, it should be where it's most needed at charities and some small companies rather than big companies that can actually afford to pay their workers minimum wage (so it's cheeky of them to be asking for free workers).
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    (Original post by CherryCherryBoomBoom)
    I think if people are going to do work experience, it should be where it's most needed at charities and some small companies rather than big companies that can actually afford to pay their workers minimum wage (so it's cheeky of them to be asking for free workers).
    The charities can't afford to employ them afterwards though. This happened with the FJF.
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    If you do not take up some kind of work placement I would hardly consider you to be seeking a job. So I think it is entirely appropriate for you to lose your job seekers allowance.
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    (Original post by Llamageddon)
    The charities can't afford to employ them afterwards though. This happened with the FJF.
    I know, but at least it's somewhere to get work experience and a reference for any future jobs they apply to.

    What's the FJF?
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    (Original post by Llamageddon)
    The amount of phone calls I had whilst working for my local MP from young people who had JSA taken off them because they admitted to volunteering their time to get experience was insane.
    If someone volunteers more than 16 hours per week and still meets the criteria for JSA, it shouldn't be stopped.

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Updated: February 25, 2012
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