[obi_adorno_kenobi]

Oh Morgise,
You came and you flapped like a turkey,
'Till Labour did find you a jerkie.

The Lib Dems, Conservatives* in disguise that they are, have never had any honour. This just proves that the generation of Lib Dems that reside here in the House of Commons are as sly as the rest of them.

*In practice, the Tories in the HoC have always been honourable, well-meaning fellows with whom the disagreements are political.

I've never trusted Lib Dems and I never will, I've never forgiven them for the death of my boy.

[Thunder and Jazz]

Undiscovered Country quote, nice.

[thunder_chunky]

I obviously support this decision. We have lost confidence in the government we were a part of and no longer feel we should continue to be burdened with lack of effort from our coalition partners.

I therefore say to the government...., "cya later alligator."

[CyclopsRock]

I'm sure they can continue to not actually do anything without the Lib Dem's helping them not do it.

[JPKC]

(Original post by Morgsie)
My Transport policy is well researched compared to other portfolio's like Work and Pensions. If you look in the thread, I have read and digested lots of data etc which I have spent a lot of time on.

Your transport policy may be well researched, the problem is there are massive value-judgements at the heart of it that simply don't allow for Labour to support it. You ostensibly favoured reform that tinkered with the current system rather than the fundamental overhaul that is clearly needed. As you say, you'll find more common ground with the Tories on that issue (and probably much else!).

(Original post by Morgsie)
I have the support of my Party.

That's a very poor reflection on your Party.

[Morgsie]

(Original post by JPKC)
Your transport policy may be well researched, the problem is there are massive value-judgements at the heart of it that simply don't allow for Labour to support it. You ostensibly favoured reform that tinkered with the current system rather than the fundamental overhaul that is clearly needed. As you say, you'll find more common ground with the Tories on that issue (and probably much else!).



That's a very poor reflection on your Party.

I would like to remind you that RL Labour voted in favour of Renationalisation back in 2004 but Gordon Brown and the Leadership struck it down on cost grounds. I do not support the Renationalisation of the railways yet the system was badly designed. I have been pointing out XYZ on the Tories Railways Bill. I avoided looking at systematic reform because you guys would kick a fuss.

My main priority was expanding the Network by HS2 to Scotland and Reopening rail lines closed by Beeching and Barbara Castle back in the 1960s. Some of your MPs supported my plans.

My Leadership is for my party to decide, not you nor Labour

My Party researched their briefs unlike some.

[mevidek]

Why are you leaving?

[MacDaddi]

(Original post by CyclopsRock)
I'm sure they can continue to not actually do anything without the Lib Dem's helping them not do it.

Please rate some other members before rating this member again.

[obi_adorno_kenobi]

(Original post by CyclopsRock)
I'm sure they can continue to not actually do anything without the Lib Dem's helping them not do it.

But, but this must be your favourite incarnation of TSR Labour ever: no government interference whatsoever!

[jsb123]

Clearly I support this decision, and I hope that it will free us and the government to pursue our own ideas.

[HarveyCanis]

(Original post by JPKC)
The unprofessional way that this has been carried out is laughable. Fair enough, you have valid objections. The thing is you haven't discussed these difficulties with Labour, you've just blazed a trail into a major disturbance that need not have happened had you decided to engage with us - let this be a warning to any other Party looking to work with you.

The funny thing is, this is obviously a decision reached by you. It is clear that you are as conservative as Nick Clegg. Indubitably you will claim to be progressive, when really you are nothing more than a moderate rightist without the courage to admit it.

Good luck to the liberal democrats in the next task they have: getting rid of a leader who's more invested in his own flawed transport policy than the interests of the coalition that had been committed to.

You could have easily made your point without referring to Clegg as a conservative. Needless slurs are unnecessary. Especially since he's not in any way conservative. Yes, I negged you for that comment despite a generally well-rounded post.

[CyclopsRock]

(Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
But, but this must be your favourite incarnation of TSR Labour ever: no government interference whatsoever!

Quite! That's why I do, unusually for a Libertarian, fully support public sector strikes. One less day of draining and bureaucracy!

[obi_adorno_kenobi]

(Original post by CyclopsRock)
Quite! That's why I do, unusually for a Libertarian, fully support public sector strikes. One less day of draining and bureaucracy!

Now that I work for the civil service, I have found myself far more appreciative of some of the "bureaucratic" points you've made to me over the years. Half my office are managers or in management grades drawing large salaries for not that much hard work. None of them, of course, has ever worked in the private sector (nor have I, but my dad has spent most of his career there) and it's all just very mad. Quite how the private sector could do heritage, I don't know, but there has to be a better way than what we have now.

[CyclopsRock]

(Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
Now that I work for the civil service, I have found myself far more appreciative of some of the "bureaucratic" points you've made to me over the years. Half my office are managers or in management grades drawing large salaries for not that much hard work. None of them, of course, has ever worked in the private sector (nor have I, but my dad has spent most of his career there) and it's all just very mad. Quite how the private sector could do heritage, I don't know, but there has to be a better way than what we have now.

Indeedy, and it's a real shame because it really does make you think "Do we really need to be laying off nurses?" I know these wasters exist, and you do, but it's very difficult to prove. Almost all of my experiences with any level of government, centrally or in various councils, are full of it, but it's all just anecdotal. But, it seems, the same anecdote as everyone else has.

The worst, though, is LOCOG. It's awful. All the usual problems of centrally funded bureaucracy compounded with the knowledge (in the staff) that LOCOG won't exist this time next year, and so they're all scarcely accountable for anything. But by the time anyone can pin the blame around, the whole show will have moved to Rio. You know that scene in The Thick of It where Hugh asks Terri "Where is everyone?" and she replies "Minister, it's 5.40pm. They've all gone home!" It was exactly like that the last time I was at LOCOG HQ. The only reason our meeting had ended at that point was because our contact was going home.

[JPKC]

(Original post by Morgsie)
I would like to remind you that RL Labour voted in favour of Renationalisation back in 2004 but Gordon Brown and the Leadership struck it down on cost grounds. I do not support the Renationalisation of the railways yet the system was badly designed. I have been pointing out XYZ on the Tories Railways Bill. I avoided looking at systematic reform because you guys would kick a fuss.

My main priority was expanding the Network by HS2 to Scotland and Reopening rail lines closed by Beeching and Barbara Castle back in the 1960s. Some of your MPs supported my plans.

It's quite ridiculous to refer to Gordon Brown as having any influence on the policies of TSR Labour, especially decisions he made 8 years ago. (And as a point of irrelevant interest, did you consider High Speed North as an alternative to HS2?)

(Original post by Morgsie)
My Leadership is for my party to decide, not you nor Labour

I was merely suggesting that it would be expedient for your Party to reject any leader capable of committing to such melodrama - even if this opera is fascinating.

(Original post by Morgsie)
My Party researched their briefs unlike some.

Meeeee-ow. The claws are out. If you have a criticism to make, by all means be more explicit in making them! It's not like we have to worry about government stability now... The funny thing is, Labour are just as grieved by the lack of full participation in recent months - the House has suffered a pandemic of the sort.

[JPKC]

(Original post by HarveyCanis)
You could have easily made your point without referring to Clegg as a conservative. Needless slurs are unnecessary. Especially since he's not in any way conservative. Yes, I negged you for that comment despite a generally well-rounded post.

I referred to him as a conservative (small 'c') because I believe his Party are more centre-right than centrist now - I've read the Orange Book (http://bit.ly/AAtrue:_Reclaiming_Liberalism). There is all sorts of evidence for this - heck, even the Telegraph constantly talks about him as "one of Britain's leading figures on the right".

I only recently found out what a 'neg' is, and quite honestly I could care less. Besides, the red matches my new signature propaganda.

[Morgsie]

(Original post by JPKC)
It's quite ridiculous to refer to Gordon Brown as having any influence on the policies of TSR Labour, especially decisions he made 8 years ago. (And as a point of irrelevant interest, did you consider High Speed North as an alternative to HS2?)



I was merely suggesting that it would be expedient for your Party to reject any leader capable of committing to such melodrama - even if this opera is fascinating.



Meeeee-ow. The claws are out. If you have a criticism to make, by all means be more explicit in making them! It's not like we have to worry about government stability now... The funny thing is, Labour are just as grieved by the lack of full participation in recent months - the House has suffered a pandemic of the sort.

High Speed North was NOT put to me in my capacity as Transport Secretary.
There is more to this drama than meets the eye.
As for my head on a plate, you have another thing coming because My Party's Caucus and MY Party Backs me.

[obi_adorno_kenobi]

(Original post by Morgsie)
High Speed North was NOT put to me in my capacity as Transport Secretary.
There is more to this drama than meets the eye.

That's clearly not what he's asking. He asked whether you, an individual with a brain that apparently is connected one synapse to another, considered it. Or is that your secret: to rely upon only the things passed to you by others. Wouldn't surprise me, the more people scratch away at your facts and figures, the more they realise the centre - i.e. you - is a hollow facade.

[JPKC]

(Original post by Morgsie)
High Speed North was NOT put to me in my capacity as Transport Secretary.

As Adorno says, you have a funny interpretation of what it means to be secretary of state.

(Original post by Morgsie)
There is more to this drama than meets the eye.

I'm aware. There is such a thing as the party subforums.

(Original post by Morgsie)
As for my head on a plate, you have another thing coming because My Party's Caucus and MY Party Backs me.

What, all three of them? =O But seriously, that's not what I'm demanding at all - it's not my business. I'm just making observations.

[obi_adorno_kenobi]

(Original post by JPKC)
What, all three of them? =O But seriously, that's not what I'm demanding at all - it's not my business. I'm just making observations.

I bet he's got MY Chemical Romance backing him too.