Vegetarians who eat fish are confused.
Scroll to see replies
Original post by marcusfox
But even so, only about two percent of ALA omega-3 is converted to EPA omega 3,
.
But even so, only about two percent of ALA omega-3 is converted to EPA omega 3,
.
You must have some seriously messed up diet to only convert 2% of ALA to EPA.
the body is most efficient at it when you're got a 1:1 ratio of omega3:6, most people have more like a 1:60 ratio.
fact is, the body can use everything from plants a lot more effectively when it's healthy.
[QUOTE=inspiration91;36508400
Eggs are full of nutrition (for a potential life!
Eggs are full of potential chicken life, they have the nutrition for a healthy chicken to grow, the majority of us aren't french, we don't have the same nutritional requirements as chickens.
your logic is nearly as bad as people feeding babies cows milk!
Eggs are full of nutrition (for a potential life!
Eggs are full of potential chicken life, they have the nutrition for a healthy chicken to grow, the majority of us aren't french, we don't have the same nutritional requirements as chickens.
your logic is nearly as bad as people feeding babies cows milk!
Original post by Tommyjw
I have a friend who is a 'committed vegetarian' but likes to eat beef etc on sundays for roast dinner because its tradition...
.....
........
I need new friends.
.....
........
I need new friends.
Dafuq? Yes you do.
Original post by almasy
B12 is produced in the human body...
you can get plenty of omega 3 on a fruit and veg diet (seriously i get at least 3grams a day, and i can easily get 6+ grams if i wanted, 10grams if i really tried.)
and ALA is converted in the body to the other omega 3s, so no shortage of those either.
you can get plenty of omega 3 on a fruit and veg diet (seriously i get at least 3grams a day, and i can easily get 6+ grams if i wanted, 10grams if i really tried.)
and ALA is converted in the body to the other omega 3s, so no shortage of those either.
B12 is produced by bacteria in the human colon, however it cannot be absorbed through the colon wall, so is useless to you unless you are going to eat your own feces.
If you don't eat fish, you won't have a direct source of the most beneficial form of omega-3, which is eicosapentaenoic acid, or EPA.
However, the body can convert another omega-3, alpha-linolenic acid (APA) into EPA.
But even so, only about two percent of ALA omega-3 is converted to EPA omega 3, and it is EPA that has been found to protect the body from cardiovascular disease, diabetes, depression and some forms of cancer.
This means that non-fish eaters need to consume very large amounts of vegetables containing ALA omega-3 in their daily diet.
If you really want to be a vegan, you shoud educate yourself on this because pretending that you don't need to plan your diet and take supplements is seriously dangerous for your health.
Original post by inspiration91
Okay so vegans don't eat eggs because male chickens died? Wouldn't it be more respectful to eat eggs than for them to be wasted?
Eggs are full of nutrition (for a potential life, which doesn't grow if it is not fertilised) so in my opinion it's much more respectful to use that nutrition than for it to be wasted.
To be honest, being picky with food in general annoys me!
Eggs are full of nutrition (for a potential life, which doesn't grow if it is not fertilised) so in my opinion it's much more respectful to use that nutrition than for it to be wasted.
To be honest, being picky with food in general annoys me!
Basically in egg hatcheries, male and female chicks are produced in roughly 50-50 ratios. Of course, only the females lay eggs, so the males are culled as unnecessary.
Original post by marcusfox
Basically in egg hatcheries, male and female chicks are produced in roughly 50-50 ratios. Of course, only the females lay eggs, so the males are culled as unnecessary.
It's not like they're culled and thrown away though.. THAT would be disrespectful in my opinion. Eating the chicken is much more respectful than for it to be wasted.
Same with eggs. Same with any other meat/dairy product.
But that's just my opinion
Original post by almasy
You must have some seriously messed up diet to only convert 2% of ALA to EPA.
the body is most efficient at it when you're got a 1:1 ratio of omega3:6, most people have more like a 1:60 ratio.
fact is, the body can use everything from plants a lot more effectively when it's healthy.
the body is most efficient at it when you're got a 1:1 ratio of omega3:6, most people have more like a 1:60 ratio.
fact is, the body can use everything from plants a lot more effectively when it's healthy.
Breathtaking ignorance.
Gerster H (1998). "Can adults adequately convert alpha-linolenic acid (18:3n-3) to eicosapentaenoic acid (20:5n-3) and docosahexaenoic acid (22:6n-3)?". Int. J. Vitam. Nutr. Res. 68 (3): 159–173.
Brenna JT (March 2002). "Efficiency of conversion of alpha-linolenic acid to long chain n-3 fatty acids in man.". Curr. Opin. Clin. Nutr. Metab. Care 5 (2): 127–132.
Burdge GC, Calder PC (September 2005). "Conversion of alpha-linolenic acid to longer-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids in human adults.". Reprod. Nutr. Dev. 45 (5): 581–597.
The original study using this technology was reported from the U.S. Department of Agriculture in 1994 wherein the conversion efficiency of ALA to DHA in young adult male subjects was reported to be at the level of a 4% efficiency, which would predict that 25 parts of dietary ALA would be needed to provide the equivalent rise in circulating levels of DHA which could be delivered by the direct consumption of one part of DHA. The overall conversion efficiency from ALA to EPA plus DHA combined was estimated to be 12%. It is noteworthy that the very limited conversion of ALA to DHA was also highly variable between the individual subjects thereby indicating difficulty in predicting those in the population who may have extremely compromised capacities for the conversion of ALA to DHA. Subsequent studies by Pawlosky et al. (2001) using similar technology and that more recently by Hussein et al. (2005) showed estimated conversions from ALA to DHA of less than 0.1% and a conversion to EPA plus DHA combined of less than 0.4% efficiency overall. The latter study was conducted over a fairly lengthy time period of 12-weeks in duration. Burgee et al. from the U.K. has compared the apparent conversion efficiency of ALA to DHA in young adult men and women. Interestingly, no detectable formation of DHA was found in the men whereas an approximate conversion efficiency from ALA to DHA of 9% was found in women. These authors suggest that the greater fractional conversion in women may be due in part to a significantly lower rate of utilization of dietary ALA for beta-oxidation and/or the influence of estrogen or other hormonal factors on the conversion efficiency. In summary, the conversion efficiency from ALA to DHA is very limited in healthy individuals; furthermore, the apparent inefficiency of the conversion from ALA to DHA is markedly variable between individuals within different sectors of the populations such that the lack of sufficient dietary DHA could compromise optimal health in those with very minimal conversion capacities. The very low conversion efficiencies and wide variation in capacities lend support to serious consideration being given to dietary DHA as an 'essential' fatty acid and/or a 'conditionally essential' fatty acid depending upon the conversion capacity of individuals within the population.
http://www.dhaomega3.org/Overview/Conversion-Efficiency-of-ALA-to-DHA-in-Humans
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by inspiration91
It's not like they're culled and thrown away though.. THAT would be disrespectful in my opinion. Eating the chicken is much more respectful than for it to be wasted.
Same with eggs. Same with any other meat/dairy product.
But that's just my opinion
Same with eggs. Same with any other meat/dairy product.
But that's just my opinion
Chicks. They don't have time to grow into chickens. As far as I am aware, they do not enter the human food chain.
How about people can eat whatever they want without a label being stuck on it ? 
Seems really picky to be saying to people they aren't what they say they are just because they do this or that. Leave them alone :P
Seems really picky to be saying to people they aren't what they say they are just because they do this or that. Leave them alone :P
Vegetarians who eat fish are confused. Vegetarians are confused, even more so, believing they have some form of mroal high ground for not eating meat yet still supporting industries which enslave animals for farming purposes in awful conditions.
Blah blah blah, you vegans don't get enough omega, that's absolute nonsense posted by people who re threatened that there lifestyle may actually be morally bereft.
"if you let your tongue control your brain, I have no reason to listen to you."
Blah blah blah, you vegans don't get enough omega, that's absolute nonsense posted by people who re threatened that there lifestyle may actually be morally bereft.
"if you let your tongue control your brain, I have no reason to listen to you."
I had a friend that ate chicken and fish, while clinging to the vegetarian label like her dignity depended on it.
Original post by NW86
Vegetarians who eat fish are confused. Vegetarians are confused, even more so, believing they have some form of mroal high ground for not eating meat yet still supporting industries which enslave animals for farming purposes in awful conditions.
Blah blah blah, you vegans don't get enough omega, that's absolute nonsense posted by people who re threatened that there lifestyle may actually be morally bereft.
"if you let your tongue control your brain, I have no reason to listen to you."
Blah blah blah, you vegans don't get enough omega, that's absolute nonsense posted by people who re threatened that there lifestyle may actually be morally bereft.
"if you let your tongue control your brain, I have no reason to listen to you."
Also known as the "la la la - I can't hear you" argument.
Just like theists, you will say "I don't care about your position and any of your carefully considered arguments, because I have faith and believe that I am right and you are wrong, end of."
Just like theists, I don't particularly care if you want to believe in Jesus, Allah, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster (bless His Noodly Appendage!), or follow any dietary lifestyle, and respect your ultimate right to do so, as long as you aren't trying to shove the argument that we are somehow amoral and hate animals down our throats every time you see us tucking into a nice juicy steak.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by blueray
Vegetarians who eat fish are confused or "Pescetarian" in shorter words.
Vegetarians don't eat animals for the fact that they have a heart and are living and can't be regrown like plants.
What I don't understand is how you can be so hypocritical and not eat animals because you find it "cruel etc" yet happily eat a fish?
Let me make this simple for you.
Don't look if you're screamish (mods don't delete as I have given a warning)
They both breath and move freely. Yet you don't eat one but do for the other.
If that's not not being confused then I don't know what is.
Vegetarians don't eat animals for the fact that they have a heart and are living and can't be regrown like plants.
What I don't understand is how you can be so hypocritical and not eat animals because you find it "cruel etc" yet happily eat a fish?
Let me make this simple for you.
Don't look if you're screamish (mods don't delete as I have given a warning)
Spoiler
They both breath and move freely. Yet you don't eat one but do for the other.
If that's not not being confused then I don't know what is.
Could you show me those diagrams again please? It makes me hungry.
Original post by jacketpotato
Rubbish, there are shades of gray in life not just black and white. It is debatable whether fish fill pain. Most fish are caught from the ocean, not reared in cages. Fish are certainly less intelligent than farm animals. There is nothing contradictory about taking the view that catching fish is fine, whereas slaughtering a very intelligent animal like a pig is not.
There is a sliding scale of animal rights. Different people take different account of animal welfare and draw the line in a different place. Similarly, eating meat doesn't mean you have no problem with battery-farming and it doesn't mean you are fine with people who abuse animals.
There is a sliding scale of animal rights. Different people take different account of animal welfare and draw the line in a different place. Similarly, eating meat doesn't mean you have no problem with battery-farming and it doesn't mean you are fine with people who abuse animals.
Alrighty, have to reply to this.
1) Fish, most definitely feel pain.
2) Yes most fish are caught from the ocean, however salmon farming is crueller than what battery hens go through. The fish are shoved in a 'pool' so tight they can't move at all. The pools are rife with infection. Its a hideous life.
Also fish caught in the ocean invariably kill other marines life...sharks, dolphins, turtles to name but a few. Not to mention killing fish is not regulated. There aren't 'steps' like killing pigs/chickens (though the steps are horrible) fish are merely caught and stuffed in a ship. Left to suffocate in pain.
3) Calling a fish unintelligent is ignorant. People think fish are stupid but they are one of the most mysterious life forms on the planet. We simply do not know their level of intelligence because it can not be measured the same way as mammals. But I can safely say that sharks are not stupid. And they definitely have a mental capacity decent enough to think and feel pain.
4) Eating ordinary meat from supermarkets is condoning animal suffering. 100%. It doesn't mean you don't love animals. But you are knowingly causing their pain and suffering. So can't love them that much to be honest.
However, I am all for people actively going and buying properly reared, organic meat and eggs. Though still causing pain in some way they are a million times better than buying Tesco meat or purchasing a meal in a restaurant (which obviously uses the cheapest stuff they can find thus the nastiest stuff). At least the person is doing their best to eat meat responsibly.
/End preachy veggie rant.
Original post by marcusfox
Also known as the "la la la - I can't hear you" argument.
Just like theists, you will say "I don't care about your position and any of your carefully considered arguments, because I have faith and believe that I am right and you are wrong, end of."
Just like theists, I don't particularly care if you want to believe in Jesus, Allah, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster (bless His Noodly Appendage!), or follow any dietary lifestyle, and respect your ultimate right to do so, as long as you aren't trying to shove the argument that we are somehow amoral and hate animals down our throats every time you see us tucking into a nice juicy steak.
Just like theists, you will say "I don't care about your position and any of your carefully considered arguments, because I have faith and believe that I am right and you are wrong, end of."
Just like theists, I don't particularly care if you want to believe in Jesus, Allah, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster (bless His Noodly Appendage!), or follow any dietary lifestyle, and respect your ultimate right to do so, as long as you aren't trying to shove the argument that we are somehow amoral and hate animals down our throats every time you see us tucking into a nice juicy steak.
Standard meat eating reply, don't shove your argument down my throat is something I hear all the time, usually about 2 minutes after I'm asked why I'm vegan. Don't get involved in a discussion about why people are vegan if you don't want to have your views challenged. It's a pathetically defensive response. Enjoy your steak, every bite admitting your laziness in allowing animals to suffer for your pleasure.
And just a slight edit to your post, I don't think you are amoral, I think you are immoral, acutely incapable of morality until you decide to stop supporting an industry off mass murder.
Please re-refer to image, eating mea is unnecessary, and by choosing to do so you ignore all evidence of animal suffering for either simplicity (laziness) or the fact you like the taste, even with animals dying, which is frankly appalling.
Original post by miserlou
My friend is a veggie and she eats fish, she said it's because fish won't remember being snatched from their parents or being killed ...
That made me laugh
For some reason i thought of Finding Nemo
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by diving_queen
However, I am all for people actively going and buying properly reared, organic meat and eggs. .
However, I am all for people actively going and buying properly reared, organic meat and eggs. .
completely disagree with you on this. There is no way to fully assure the meat has been properly reared.
Refer to the case just 3 weeks ago, of Harling Farm (YouTube and BBC cover the story) a British pork farm with the red tractor assurance of standards, in which animals were filmed being kicked and hit with metal bars over a prolonged period of time. RSPCA spokesperson said it was some of the worst footage they had ever seen.
Enjoy eating that "properly reared meat".
Original post by NW86
Standard meat eating reply, don't shove your argument down my throat is something I hear all the time, usually about 2 minutes after I'm asked why I'm vegan. Don't get involved in a discussion about why people are vegan if you don't want to have your views challenged. It's a pathetically defensive response. Enjoy your steak, every bite admitting your laziness in allowing animals to suffer for your pleasure.
And just a slight edit to your post, I don't think you are amoral, I think you are immoral, acutely incapable of morality until you decide to stop supporting an industry off mass murder.
Please re-refer to image, eating mea is unnecessary, and by choosing to do so you ignore all evidence of animal suffering for either simplicity (laziness) or the fact you like the taste, even with animals dying, which is frankly appalling.
And just a slight edit to your post, I don't think you are amoral, I think you are immoral, acutely incapable of morality until you decide to stop supporting an industry off mass murder.
Please re-refer to image, eating mea is unnecessary, and by choosing to do so you ignore all evidence of animal suffering for either simplicity (laziness) or the fact you like the taste, even with animals dying, which is frankly appalling.
I thought the discussion was about why VEGETARIANS eat fish, nothing to do with ***VEGANISM*** at all.
So the omega-3 argument is a valid point to make in the discussion, and also purely the fact that they have the right to eat fish is also relevant. As is the debate as to correct nomenclature.
Yet the vegans weigh in with "anything against our religion is immoral."
Looking at your JPEG, I can start picking it to pieces right now.
Eating meat *IS* necessary. Yes, it is possible for a minority to be vegetarian, pescetarian, vegan or whatever fad diet that meets the label you wish to apply to yourself. It is not sustainable for everyone.
I posted a bit of scientific data you did a fantastic job of ignoring, because it didn't fit your narrow minded viewpoint.
Environmental devastation? Really?
And finally, you seem very preoccupied about eating meat. What about all the other things that vegans aren't allowed, if they want to 'fit in'? Particularly the egg argument.
I can accept that you are against it on the grounds that in the process of breeding hens for hatcheries, male chicks are discarded, and that often hens are crammed together indoors in battery farms. Fair enough, I can see how some people may not agree with that point of view.
Nevertheless, if the hens are happy, outdoor hens with plenty of room to run around, no chicken was ever killed or maltreated, they still wouldn't meet the criteria for a vegan lifestyle, so that argument doesn't erm... fly.
Quick Reply
Related discussions
- if i will only date a vegetarian/vegan will i be unlikely to find a gf
- Kallisto's Sunday Question: Vegetables
- going insane
- vegan/ gluten free at uni
- What should i feed my goldfish????
- What do I do?
- Who else is vegan on here?
- University of Hull - Student Life / Night Life
- vegetarian at st hilda’s
- Do you think universities should ban meat from their menus?
- Southern V Northern British Foods? (nommmm!)
- Birthday cake and vegan friend dilemma
- IBS...exams/uni how do u guyz cope
- Sidney Sussex College Cambridge 2024 offer-holders
- Would you rather...
- Uni of Nottingham Accomodation
- please help with my degree
- Is four cheese Arancini vegetarian?
- Group 1 Carcinogens
- street food - what's your fav?
