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Why is Arab richer than Africa?

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    (Original post by Ferdowsi)
    Iran is [SIZE]NOT[/SIZE] an Arab country.
    I think she was referring to the region in general, although she probably didnt realise that she was insinuating that Iran was an arab country. Still, i do not know why Iran was singled out.
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    (Original post by the_spirit_room)
    Hi I was wondering if Africa ever had an empire? I know that Muslims used to.. Did Africa and Arab countries have same amount of resources and natural spices in the beginning of time?

    Thanks very much, Manuel.
    Yes, Africa had states and empires long before the arabians and eurpeans.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...olonial_Africa

    The most significant was the Ethiopian Empire (it ended in the 50ies of 20. century.) There is also Great Zimbabwe, various kingdoms and so on.

    (Original post by ak137)
    Africa had lots of natural resources. As usual, imperial powers came along, enslaved the population and looted the natural resources :rolleyes:
    that is a particular truth. there is also many examples of cooperations. the early boer republics had alliances with the local kingdoms, there were also cases when some tribes fled from the arabic parts of africa to the area were the europeans used to be.
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    (Original post by ak137)
    Africa had lots of natural resources. As usual, imperial powers came along, enslaved the population and looted the natural resources :rolleyes:
    The imperial powers, by which I take it you mean Europe, didn't enslave Africans. They participated in the slave trade, buying and selling and transporting slaves, but they left the enslaving part to native warlords.
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    Africa has had quite a few Empires. Some of the most prosperous too. Phoenician when it branched into Africa, and succeeding that, Carthage. The Songhai Empire wasn't much of an empire in terms of how we think of them, but it was rather successful for a time.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    The imperial powers, by which I take it you mean Europe, didn't enslave Africans. They participated in the slave trade, buying and selling and transporting slaves, but they left the enslaving part to native warlords.
    If it helps you sleep at night.
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    Although there were pre-colonial African kingdoms and empires, I don't think it's very accurate to equate them to those existing in Europe, the Middle East, Asia and to some extent Central America.
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    (Original post by ak137)
    If it helps you sleep at night.
    My sleep patterns don't enter the equation. If your going to imply a country has done wrong in the past, at least make it truthful.
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    People do realise that oil hasn't been an enormously traded valuable resource since the dawn of time don't they?

    I know there is a big obsession by the public to attribute anything and everything happening in the world to "it's about the oil", but I really don't think it is remotely relevant to ancient history...
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    (Original post by MancStudent098)
    Although there were pre-colonial African kingdoms and empires, I don't think it's very accurate to equate them to those existing in Europe, the Middle East, Asia and to some extent Central America.

    can you elaborate reasons why not? thank you

    (Original post by callum9999)
    People do realise that oil hasn't been an enormously traded valuable resource since the dawn of time don't they?

    I know there is a big obsession by the public to attribute anything and everything happening in the world to "it's about the oil", but I really don't think it is remotely relevant to ancient history...
    what is relevant, can you direct me to sources/materials to help me understand this time period better? thank you
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    (Original post by ak137)
    Again, if it helps you sleep at night.
    Why don't you actually address the point I raised?
    Anyone who makes a factually incorrect point and then deflects criticism of it with such arrogant remarks is frankly a ****.
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    (Original post by Ferdowsi)
    And never forget it!
    And never forget that your all still humans!!!!!
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    (Original post by 2ndClass)
    Africa has been blighted with a plethora of problems. To blame the West squarely for them is not only disingenuous but also ignorant. Yes the West has played a part through credit institutions and SAP programmes that have wrecked the economic productivity of the continent but ultimately poor governable, corruption and general apathy are to blame for Africa's problems.

    The Arab world isn't any better either. Despite Saudi Arabia's massive oil wealth, it has failed to transform the lives of many Saudi citizens or generated any industry to compete with the oil sector.
    Erm the Western Imperial powers set Africa on it's path to destruction and utter hopelessness. Colonialism wasn't designed to help the natives rather loot the resources for the colonists benefit. It is the West that stores the stolen funds generated by the African countries (Swiss banks) and it's also the West that benefits from the cheap, if not free resources.
    The West also allows them to buy luxury homes, jets, planes etc. I've even heard of instances where champagne and truffles are flown in from Belgium and France while the rest of the country starves. Trade protectionism doesn't help either. Also the de-colonisation process wasn't. Most colonists simply up and left
    Corruption is to blame and all of Africa's leaders since independence have been nothing short of greedy and evil. Remember that at the time of colonisation most of today's African leaders were young and impressionable after being told the myth that the white man is superior and "God". When poor, powerless people become the opposite then they're uncontrollable and greed ensues. The people in power do whatever it takes to remain there. Any effort by a leader to improve their country is swiftly denied. Look at what happened to Gadaffi.

    Imperialism ****ed up Africa and its still running Africa into the ground.
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    Black Gold!!
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    (Original post by ak137)
    Africa had lots of natural resources. As usual, imperial powers came along, enslaved the population and looted the natural resources :rolleyes:

    EDIT: the supremacist brigade is negging me, bring it on, bros!
    It's true. But the local populatition were quite slow. Nevertheless, we basically touch everything and we have ****ed some of it up.
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    (Original post by Silver Arrow)
    Erm the Western Imperial powers set Africa on it's path to destruction and utter hopelessness. Colonialism wasn't designed to help the natives rather loot the resources for the colonists benefit. It is the West that stores the stolen funds generated by the African countries (Swiss banks) and it's also the West that benefits from the cheap, if not free resources.
    The West also allows them to buy luxury homes, jets, planes etc. I've even heard of instances where champagne and truffles are flown in from Belgium and France while the rest of the country starves. Trade protectionism doesn't help either. Also the de-colonisation process wasn't. Most colonists simply up and left
    Corruption is to blame and all of Africa's leaders since independence have been nothing short of greedy and evil. Remember that at the time of colonisation most of today's African leaders were young and impressionable after being told the myth that the white man is superior and "God". When poor, powerless people become the opposite then they're uncontrollable and greed ensues. The people in power do whatever it takes to remain there. Any effort by a leader to improve their country is swiftly denied. Look at what happened to Gadaffi.

    Imperialism ****ed up Africa and its still running Africa into the ground.
    It's so ****ing true, we are running them ragged. Even Pearl Harbour was in response to... guess what... meddling.
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    (Original post by Silver Arrow)
    Erm the Western Imperial powers set Africa on it's path to destruction and utter hopelessness. Colonialism wasn't designed to help the natives rather loot the resources for the colonists benefit. It is the West that stores the stolen funds generated by the African countries (Swiss banks) and it's also the West that benefits from the cheap, if not free resources.
    The West also allows them to buy luxury homes, jets, planes etc. I've even heard of instances where champagne and truffles are flown in from Belgium and France while the rest of the country starves. Trade protectionism doesn't help either. Also the de-colonisation process wasn't. Most colonists simply up and left
    Corruption is to blame and all of Africa's leaders since independence have been nothing short of greedy and evil. Remember that at the time of colonisation most of today's African leaders were young and impressionable after being told the myth that the white man is superior and "God". When poor, powerless people become the opposite then they're uncontrollable and greed ensues. The people in power do whatever it takes to remain there. Any effort by a leader to improve their country is swiftly denied. Look at what happened to Gadaffi.

    Imperialism ****ed up Africa and its still running Africa into the ground.
    By the way Gaddafi is evil. I bemoan his evilness. I agree the west is a ****ing oil-slut.
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    (Original post by MancStudent098)
    Although there were pre-colonial African kingdoms and empires, I don't think it's very accurate to equate them to those existing in Europe, the Middle East, Asia and to some extent Central America.

    From what point in time?..... The Eastern African (Ethiopian and Somali) empires were pretty much on the same level as most of the middle east...for example:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajuuraan_State (had trading links that stretched from China to the Netherlands)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adal_Sultanate

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Empire

    I'd say they could be equated to a point (maybe the enlightenment)
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    (Original post by Raiden10)
    By the way Gaddafi is evil. I bemoan his evilness. I agree the west is a ****ing oil-slut.
    The people that replaced him are even more eviler.
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    (Original post by the_spirit_room)
    can you elaborate reasons why not? thank you
    I realise at this point that I missed out the important qualifier "sub saharan" from my initial post. Anyway, I think it's pretty well illustrated by the map that someone else was using: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Af...e-colonial.svg. Below North Africa the blotches of colour are pretty scant and isolated. Even where they do cluster in the West and the Horn of Africa there's not a huge amount to show for the entire pre colonial period. Compare that to Europe which was largely unified under a couple of empires before that period and where large centrally organised kingdoms, with significant urban centres, internal trade and complex industries were pretty much normal. Same goes for China, Japan, South East Asia and the Middle East.

    (Original post by farah827)
    From what point in time?..... The Eastern African (Ethiopian and Somali) empires were pretty much on the same level as most of the middle east...
    Pretty much the same response as above - it's not that Sub Saharan Africa had no significant civilisations, it just didn't have very many.

    I think it's fairly telling that colonialism actually ran into trouble when it encountered any kind of African civilisation (Ethiopia is a very good example, but even the Zulu empire presented significant difficulties).
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    I think that Islam might be something to do with the relative success in terms of a degree of unity under one empire that the Arabs had (using Arabs very ignorantly to describe the Islamic realm generally). Very speculative argument, but it seems that an organized religion like that might have helped the "Arabs" pull together and work for the establishment of an "Arabic" empire. I'm pretty sure that there wasn't much of an equivalent force to this in non-Islamic Africa.
    This entire point could be totally wrong, and is only supported by vague background historical knowledge, but it seems plausible.

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