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Gay marriage...opinions

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    (Original post by mmmpie)
    Maybe it does. If he believes he is a religious mouthpiece, and the words he speaks are the words of his god and therefore (presumably) by definition the last word on all matters of morality.

    It's hardly a compelling argument, but it is one...
    Haha well compelling arguments don't seem to be their forte really, so guess I shouldn't be surprised
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    (Original post by Jester94)
    which does not suffice as an argument.
    That might be true if I failed to explain my argument, but none of your arguments are acceptable to me. It ultimately comes down to what people think is an acceptable argument.
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    (Original post by mmmpie)
    An uncompromising and dogmatic adherent to a specific religious ideology? I didn't suggest that it was an inaccurate description, quite the contrary, I just wondered if it was something which you meant to advertise.
    Yes, I meant to advertise it.
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    (Original post by noisy06)
    Well firstly, I believe that your views are also crap. Secondly, I have every right to oppose gay marriage, there's not a goddamn thing you can do stop me. If you have a problem with that, it's just none of my business.
    Touchy, aren't we?

    Your views are unjustified, therefore unsound, therefore what we can colloquially refer to as crap.

    They're also demonstrably harmful.

    There is no sound justification for opposing gay marriage.

    There is nothing which I intend to do to stop you. You are a self-limiting phenomenon, a throwback increasingly recognised by society as nothing but a mouthpiece for an archaic masquerade at morality which is actually nothing more than iron age men trying to maintain order in their tribe. It's not necessary for me to actively stop you, all I need do is point out your inability to justify your position and let you make a fool of yourself by adhering to your nonsense in your proudly uncompromising and dogmatic way.
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    (Original post by noisy06)
    *sigh* I would have thought it was obvious that I hold that view due to my religion. It's not rocket science.
    I was hoping it was more than simply following a religious view point, because the church can hardly be held up as the pinnacle of morality, especially but not limited to its abhorrent hidden kiddy-fiddling past, so having the church judge something as immoral is highly hypocritical
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    (Original post by chancellorroberts)
    You seem to have major problems with Christians and the Bible. So it says some bad things, you do not seem to be Christian so why should you even care to quote that rubbish let alone read. It also says "Love thy neighbour", definitely contradictory (like you said in your OP) and gives Christians a broad enough base to be pro-homosexuality or against homosexuality. They HAVE to pick and choose due to the quality of their book.

    Anyway I only wrote this because you seem to want an argument with someone so why not me, a straight atheist male who is against gay marriage but not homosexuality. Seems like I'm the best your gonna get to argue with. At least I won't base my arguments on the Bible (we all know you would win if I did, more of a challenge for you if I don't).
    I don't really get your point...
    If I am going to disagree with something, I need to know what exactly I am disagreeing with, therefore it makes complete sense for me to read the Bible. Plus, I find it good for a laugh
    What does 'love thy neighbour' contradict?
    Sorry, I just can't see the point you're trying to make...
    You said that they have to pick and choose... I already said that? :confused:
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    (Original post by noisy06)
    That might be true if I failed to explain my argument, but none of your arguments are acceptable to me. It ultimately comes down to what people think is an acceptable argument.
    Oh, so you are refusing to engage in debate on account of your apparent foresight that whatever I believe will be false? Good to know, one less homophobe to waste my time on
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    (Original post by Jester94)
    I was hoping it was more than simply following a religious view point
    Well, I can see why you're disappointed.
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    (Original post by Jester94)
    Oh, so you are refusing to engage in debate on account of your apparent foresight that whatever I believe will be false? Good to know, one less homophobe to waste my time on
    It certainly saves keystrokes that could be better spent browsing lolcats.
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    (Original post by Jester94)
    Oh, so you are refusing to engage in debate on account of your apparent foresight that whatever I believe will be false? Good to know, one less homophobe to waste my time on
    When have I refused debate? Honestly, it seems like you are a slow learner, either that or someone who fails to understand others. If I wanted to refuse a debate I would say so blatantly without sugar coating it.
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    (Original post by noisy06)
    When have I refused debate? Honestly, it seems like you are a slow learner, either that or someone who fails to understand others. If I wanted to refuse a debate I would say so blatantly without sugar coating it.
    Well you've failed to provide any sort of explanation for your position other that stating that you are "a religious ideologue", even when repeatedly and explicitly invited to do so. It's certainly a failure to debate, if not a refusal.
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    (Original post by mmmpie)
    They're also demonstrably harmful.
    I disagree on pretty much everything you wrote. But I was intrigued that you think my views are harmful, why is that? If my religion is true and everyone who opposed it is punished severely in the hereafter, would you still think my views were harmful to society? It ultimately comes down to your theological affiliation whether or not I'm harmful in my views, but I see myself as wanting the best for everyone. I want everyone to have the good things of this world and the next.
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    (Original post by XxelliexX)
    Homosexuality = not a choice.
    Being a bigoted, hateful, homophobic prick = a choice.
    I really dislike you. This is offensive. Firstly, I'm not a homophobe, but secondly - I can't change my views on gay marriage. I don't like gay marriage and it may be harmful to society.
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    (Original post by noisy06)
    I disagree on pretty much everything you wrote. But I was intrigued that you think my views are harmful, why is that? If my religion is true and everyone who opposed it is punished severely in the hereafter, would you still think my views were harmful to society? It ultimately comes down to your theological affiliation whether or not I'm harmful in my views, but I see myself as wanting the best for everyone. I want everyone to have the good things of this world and the next.
    Well because your religion cannot be demonstrated to be true, but what can be demonstrated is that if you put gay kids in an environment where they're repeatedly told that being gay makes them evil abominations they are disproportionately likely to commit suicide.

    I want everyone to have good things in this world, because there isn't any other. I can't prove that there isn't any other, I'll admit, but unlike you (I assume you're an adherent of some kind of abrahamic religion) I don't have any evidence against me either.
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    (Original post by mmmpie)
    Well you've failed to provide any sort of explanation for your position other that stating that you are "a religious ideologue", even when repeatedly and explicitly invited to do so. It's certainly a failure to debate, if not a refusal.
    Not really. If I believe God says something, then there is no better explanation than stating that you will not deviate from the teachings of what you believe to be from God. This is the pinnacle, this is the be all, end all for my position. So I don't think I can be accused of not putting forward an explanation.
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    In my earnest opinion, gay rights issues will be viewed in several decades just as we look at the rife and public racism of our grandparents' generation and think it was outrageous and morally wrong.

    I firmly believe it's never justified to discriminate against anyone on any grounds, and this is what this amounts to. Just because someone is attracted to a member of the same sex they are not allowed to celebrate and reaffirm their relationship in the same way as a heterosexual couple. Surely no religion advocates such hatred.
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    (Original post by noisy06)
    Not really. If I believe God says something, then there is no better explanation than stating that you will not deviate from the teachings of what you believe to be from God. This is the pinnacle, this is the be all, end all for my position. So I don't think I can be accused of not putting forward an explanation.
    Ah, this is your true believer moment isn't it? Better to disregard new information that to consider it and risk critical appraisal of your beliefs.

    This does make you effectively impossible to debate with.
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    (Original post by Jester94)
    So what is your basis for opposing gay marriage. And please don't restate your belief that civil partnership is the same and we basically have equal rights, because it isn't and we don't.
    It is the basically the same though. You have the same rights in relation to property, succession and I would say that society in general treats civil partners as if they were in a husband and wife relationship. I think CP is the homosexual equivalent to hetrosexual marriage and people do treat it as such. The small differences I stated before can be changed to make CP truly equal to marriage.

    In terms of the name CP reflects the remarkable development of gay rights in the last 30 years and changing the label of marriage could damage this. Also marriage has developed around religion, why would anyone want to become part of an institution which has developed on the basis of religious views which until recently oppressed their views, it does not make any sense to me. Also a more archaic argument is that for hundreds of years in the UK marriage has been between a man and a woman why should that tradition be disturbed when there is now equal rights.
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    (Original post by DYKWIA)
    I really dislike you. This is offensive. Firstly, I'm not a homophobe, but secondly - I can't change my views on gay marriage. I don't like gay marriage and it may be harmful to society.
    I've never been so happy to be disliked
    Can you explain why you dislike me? ... Just because I think it will be funny
    I'm pretty sure you've caused greater offense to me than I have to you.
    You're a homophobe.
    How is gay marriage harmful to society?!
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    As a very liberalist protestant I take the view that God made us all equally so gay marriage should not be treated any differently to straight marriage. I have no problem with gay marriage at all. This is the 21st century, and yet gay people aren't allowed to have a proper wedding? It's stupid. Gay marriage to me sounds fairly stable, whereas with many heterosexual marriages, you hear about break ups and divorces all the time. Most gay marriages are for the long haul and I think in countries where it is already legal, this is being proven.

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Updated: April 12, 2012
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