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What would happen if the North got an independence referendum like the Scots?

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    they chose to stay in the union. if you know your irish history, you'll know that the latter home rule bills, and the final settlement did not include four of the six counties of ulster.
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    (Original post by s.a.u)
    they chose to stay in the union. if you know your irish history, you'll know that the latter home rule bills, and the final settlement did not include four of the six counties of ulster.
    Not to be pedantic, but is it not six of nine counties of Ulster?
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    (Original post by TheHistoryStudent)
    Yup, I thought you were referring to Northern England too in which case I honestly dunno what we'd pick haha, whether to ditch the southerners or not...

    As for NI, I really don't know enough about it to say, but historically there has been a pretty strong unionist movement there, so I dunno... maybe they would opt to stay British.

    Ireland's been a right old mess for England ever since we began colonising it... should have left well alone, or conquered the whole lot outright if you ask me...

    EDIT: And before the neg train arrives, when I say "conquer it outright" I mean back in the days when Ireland wasn't a nation in it's own right, back when it was run by several smaller kings, warlords etc.
    I thought you were referring to the plantation of ulster, but I know what you mean, obviously it was necessary to deter invasion from the French but it did make a mess, at least it brought prosperity
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    (Original post by s.a.u)
    they chose to stay in the union. if you know your irish history, you'll know that the latter home rule bills, and the final settlement did not include four of the six counties of ulster.
    I'm not sure exactly what you mean here, please elaborate
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    The system at the minute is pretty accommodating for everyone, so I haven't heard a mention either, I bring it up because some of my mates because pointed out how unfair it is that Scotland gets a chance at independence whilst "us nationalists have been queuing for it for 90 years"
    "Gets" a chance from who? From Westminster? We made our chance ourselves.
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    (Original post by FrigidSymphony)
    "Gets" a chance from who? From Westminster? We made our chance ourselves.
    Well, the SNP led a campaign for it and there was no real "WE MUST REMAIN IN THE UNION" so, yes, by being the main party they've orchestrated it themselves
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    (Original post by 1tartanarmy)
    1. Don't be silly. There is a difference between antibiotics for kidney infection and someone needing glasses. There is a difference between needing a tooth removed and requiring beta blockers. Obviously there has to be a line drawn. Eg dietary supplements all round what be stupid. I just happen to think the SNP are correct in that life saving drugs should be FREE for all no matter what the back ground. Bearing in mind a simple infection can get way out of hand if not treated by drugs from a pharmacy.
    Keep in mind that the vast majority of prescriptions issued were subject to broad exemptions, for chronic conditions and so forth. Indeed, the only people paying were the ones who could afford to.

    Against that backdrop, I see no good reason why £37 million is better of being spent on drugs for the middle classes than being spent on front-line NHS staff.

    2. Erm.... Earth , obviously. No they can't. Hence the LOAN. A loan is taken out by a person because they don't actually have the money on them. Have a wee look at how loans work. If you don't have the money, that means you cannot afford to buy the item. Sure, you pay it back. There is a huge difference between getting tuition paid for you... than getting a loan that you must pay back. Free money vs Loan..... I would like to see how many human beings pick the loan. This isn't about the "majority" either. Its about everyone. Everyone shouldn't have the worry about paying tuition fees.
    If you borrow money and pay it back, then you can afford something. That's a perfectly reasonable way of doing about things. Under the current system in England, no-one has to worry about tuition fees - majority or not.

    And of course it isn't "free money" - it's charging the taxpayer.

    3. So getting £2000 a year to pay for tuition fees isn't support? your hard to please then. If students in England have comparitivley more money than students from scotland then you lot are getting too much money. I get by fine with the support I get, If anyone needs anymore than that then its wasted in my opinion. Students are supposed to struggle. Its a learning experience. I don't see how giving students cash in the form of loans to buy clothes and mcdonalds is a good thing. Its better the money is spent on tuition fees. You know.... things that matter.
    Tuition fee payments aren't what people mean when they talk about student support. Who exactly are 'you lot'? I am Scottish. I wouldn't have liked to have tried to live off student support in Edinburgh, Aberdeen, St Andrews or Glasgow.
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    (Original post by Sdiff)
    This should answer your questions OP.
    What options are there under 'other' - only semi-reasonable thing I could think of would be independent counties?
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    (Original post by CLS94)
    What options are there under 'other' - only semi-reasonable thing I could think of would be independent counties?
    European federalism? Part of a reunified British Ireland? Redraw the boundaries of Northern Ireland to allow some of the largely nationalist population in the west to become part of the Republic?
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Redraw the boundaries of Northern Ireland to allow some of the largely nationalist population in the west to become part of the Republic?
    Would the nationalists ever go for that, considering that it would make their dream of a united Ireland even less likely to happen?
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Would the nationalists ever go for that, considering that it would make their dream of a united Ireland even less likely to happen?
    I don't think anyone wants that. I suppose it's not inconceivable that some of the people who voted "other" had that in mind, but it seems unlikely to me.
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    (Original post by FrigidSymphony)
    "Gets" a chance from who? From Westminster? We made our chance ourselves.
    the snp fought for it doesnt mean that westminister had to say yes so eys you are being given the chance
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    • Will there be a campaign (either politically or violently) to include "Being Irish" as a tick box alongside British or Northern Irish
    • What will the British reaction be? Good riddance? (unlike Scotland and it's oil) or will it spell the end of the United Kingdom
    • What is the nationalist reaction? When Stormont disbanded under Chichester Clark, the IRA's reaction was ecstasy. Would they paradoxically prefer to give more power to the British than themselves, even if today's government is a lot more representative
    • What is the unionist reaction? Do they see the independent state of Northern Ireland as a goal or an own goal by weakening it's ties to the British state?
    • What will the result be?
    • In the event of independence, what will the national anthem be? Would footballers from the North still be able to play for the South? Will they fund the royal family?
    • Will living in a Northern Irish state be better than a devolved area of the United Kingdom?
    Thoughts?
    I feel the percentage of the population who desire an independent Northern Ireland is low enough (at least according to the graph that was referenced, and from my own personal understanding), that these issues don't seriously need to be speculated upon; at least at this time.

    However I'll give my view just for fun;

    I guess if both Scotland and Northern Ireland were to secede from the Union, the UK is effectively no longer. At least if it is the UK, it's the United Kingdom of England & Wales. I don't know exactly how Wales and England would work out their positions; I'm not aware of any major movement towards independence in Wales... the only party I'm aware of is Plaid Cymru and I believe they only have a small % of the vote. I'm not British so I'm not sure exactly how they'd feel with regard to losing Northern Ireland; but I doubt it would be "good riddance".

    The Nationalist reaction? I guess that depends on the demographics of the voters. I imagine they'd be somewhat perplexed if the majority of the Catholic population voted for an independent Northern Ireland. Otherwise, I guess it would still more or less be status quo ante bellum; an independent North with severed ties to the UK I guess would be a positive, but the population have still effectively voted against the Nationalist Movement, so there's still the same resistance to a United Ireland that there always was.

    The Unionist reaction? I think it's as their name implies; Severed or at least strongly weakened ties with the rest of the Union is surely nothing other than an own-goal.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Would the nationalists ever go for that, considering that it would make their dream of a united Ireland even less likely to happen?
    Who knows? It looks like the status quo unless the million unionists can be persuaded otherwise, and until the republic manages to cobble together some decent leaders, and not the incompetent idiots who have been running the county in the last decade(s), as well as seeing a return to economic growth.
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    (Original post by bpool1994)
    Not to be pedantic, but is it not six of nine counties of Ulster?
    It is
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    There was one in the north in 2004(?). There was very poor turn out, and a resounding NO vote from those who could be bothered to turn out.

    <3 x
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Tuition fee payments aren't what people mean when they talk about student support. Who exactly are 'you lot'? I am Scottish. I wouldn't have liked to have tried to live off student support in Edinburgh, Aberdeen, St Andrews or Glasgow.
    I will get back to your other points when I have more time. In a rush right now but I had to say this.

    Your scottish? Could have fooled me. You have 3 different flags about your profile and not one is the saltire. You are living in England too out of choice I presume?

    Your views are so English biased its unreal. Let our.... mine and your country make its own decisions. Let us govern ourselves and vote SNP, vote independence. We have a top class set up and the moment and its being threatened by the conservative government down south. Your moaning about prescriptions being free? there might not be an NHS the way privitisation is going. Labour started it.... and the tories are going to finish it off.

    A few points rolled in to one there but as I said.... In a hurry mrs murray
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    Sick of people thinking of the north and south as being in different countries
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    (Original post by O'Donovan)
    I feel the percentage of the population who desire an independent Northern Ireland is low enough (at least according to the graph that was referenced, and from my own personal understanding), that these issues don't seriously need to be speculated upon; at least at this time.

    However I'll give my view just for fun;

    I guess if both Scotland and Northern Ireland were to secede from the Union, the UK is effectively no longer. At least if it is the UK, it's the United Kingdom of England & Wales. I don't know exactly how Wales and England would work out their positions; I'm not aware of any major movement towards independence in Wales... the only party I'm aware of is Plaid Cymru and I believe they only have a small % of the vote. I'm not British so I'm not sure exactly how they'd feel with regard to losing Northern Ireland; but I doubt it would be "good riddance".

    The Nationalist reaction? I guess that depends on the demographics of the voters. I imagine they'd be somewhat perplexed if the majority of the Catholic population voted for an independent Northern Ireland. Otherwise, I guess it would still more or less be status quo ante bellum; an independent North with severed ties to the UK I guess would be a positive, but the population have still effectively voted against the Nationalist Movement, so there's still the same resistance to a United Ireland that there always was.

    The Unionist reaction? I think it's as their name implies; Severed or at least strongly weakened ties with the rest of the Union is surely nothing other than an own-goal.
    One of my mate's a nationalist, but a northern Ireland supporter, to him, the idea of united Ireland is stupid, but he still wants to cut ties with the UK, he wants an independent northern ireland, is this a strange view?
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Would the nationalists ever go for that, considering that it would make their dream of a united Ireland even less likely to happen?
    Would nationalists still see a united Ireland a possibility, therefore be prepared to gamble than take their opportunity and exclude themselves From being British?

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