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Blaming all men for Rape.

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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    The majority of men do not commit rape* - this is a slightly different statement. I'm not confident that if you raised a batch of men and women in complete isolation from modern social norms and watched their behaviour from afar that most of the males wouldn't 'take' sex when they felt like it at some point in their lives, within the limits of some band-like tribal social heirarchy (relating to dominance) :beard:

    My point is this: I think most men are, on a biological level, capable of pushing the envelope where sex and consent are concerned at one stage or other in their lives - most of us are ostensibly born potential sexual predators, we just have it beaten out of us/subdued in us, by social constructs / threat of punishment

    Rape is therefore not simply a function of will, but also of opportunity and arousal. Hence, yes, women who wish to mitigate the likelihood of being sexually assaulted would do well to minimise both the opportunity for a rapist to come into contact with them, and the extent to which they are likely to arouse (if unwittingly) a rapist in such a situation

    e.g. probably best to avoid wandering off alone down a darkened path wearing next to nothing after a night out in an area that is frequented by a large number of inebriated young women :holmes:

    Rape is not simply about 'power' either, that's such a crock of ****e

    That thumbnail image is pretty funny btw
    Only to the same extent everyone is a possible murderer, theif, traitor etc. Which really isn't the point of the thread.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Only to the same extent everyone is a possible murderer, theif, traitor etc. Which really isn't the point of the thread.
    Isn't that precisely the underlying point of the thread?:

    Almost all men are capable of being a rapist, unless they watch themselves/society watches them

    vs.

    Almost all women are potential rape victims unless they watch themselves/society watches them

    ~ An effective approach to the problem of rape is to tackle both sides of the coin to mitigate the potential for deviance/opportunity/'incitement' :beard:
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Isn't that precisely the underlying point of the thread?:

    Almost all men are capable of being a rapist, unless they watch themselves/society watches them

    vs.

    Almost all women are potential rape victims unless they watch themselves/society watches them

    ~ An effective approach to the problem of rape is to tackle both sides of the coin to mitigate the potential for deviance/opportunity/'incitement' :beard:
    No, not at all. I'm sure we all accept that we are all capable of crime on base instinct.

    However you don't adsress everyone you meet as a theif. You don't go around telling everyone not to beat strangers to death. It's a silly standpoint.

    Society has moved us to a point where the majority are not criminals, and so should not be treated like them. That is the point.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    No, not at all. I'm sure we all accept that we are all capable of crime on base instinct.

    However you don't adsress everyone you meet as a theif. You don't go around telling everyone not to beat strangers to death. It's a silly standpoint.

    Society has moved us to a point where the majority are not criminals, and so should not be treated like them. That is the point.
    I don't understand why you've been negged for this - it seems like a perfectly reasonable view point Would pos rep you but I've already done it recently and it won't let me do it again yet.

    Not all men are rapists, ergo they shouldn't all be treated like rapists.
    Not all women are theives, ergo they shouldn't all be treated like thieves.
    Not all young people are chavs, ergo they shouldn't all be treated like chavs.

    People shouldn't make this huge sweeping generalisations, apart from on two things.

    ALL seagulls steal chips and poo on your head, ergo they should all be shot without mercy.
    ALL people who use the word "ergo" are annoying and should be shot
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Society has moved us to a point where the majority are not criminals, and so should not be treated like them. That is the point.
    I'd tell a daughter of mine to be wary of men as most of us have the capacity to do evil, just as readily as I'd tell them that they're best advised not to wander around alone at night etc

    I agree no-one should be literally branded a rapist simply because they are male (not sure who's been doing this?) but I think there's a need to consider both sides of the coin rather than placing too great an emphasis on the way any one group (perpetrators, potential perpetrators, victims, or potential victims) behaves. Women should be able to do as/go where they please without fear of rape but they also need to recognise that this is the real world and that there are ways to mitigate risk, as per the thumbnail in your OP
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    (Original post by xDave-)
    Exactly this, how naive are people? And if you attempt to say that to someone, their instant response is "WOAH WOAH WAOH, ARE YOU DEFENDING RAPE?!?!!?" No you ****ing moron, I'm telling you to have some common sense. It's not even like it's solely rape - you could be beaten up, you could be mugged, you could even be murdered. There are some horrible people in this world and if you don't make assurances for your safety, then you're increasing your odds of becoming a victim.
    and yet, i got negged twice for something most of us would recognise to be plain ole common sense *shrug*

    never given a hang for negs cos i'm not a rep whore...to the planks that negged me... ffs, take a look around u and the world we live in...it aint safe out there, so be sensible.
    my post wasn't that hard to comprehend surely?
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    I'd tell a daughter of mine to be wary of men as most of us have the capacity to do evil, just as readily as I'd tell them that they're best advised not to wander around alone at night etc

    I agree no-one should be literally branded a rapist simply because they are male (not sure who's been doing this?) but I think there's a need to consider both sides of the coin rather than placing too great an emphasis on the way any one group (perpetrators, potential perpetrators, victims, or potential victims) behaves. Women should be able to do as/go where they please without fear of rape but they also need to recognise that this is the real world and that there are ways to mitigate risk, as per the thumbnail in your OP
    Maybe we're at crossed wires here.

    I thought you were saying that it is ok to brand all men as potential rapists. Which of course, is not the same as advising women on how to avoid them. But looking at any man and saying 'Well, he could be a rapist!' without reason is madness, and a sure road to paranoia.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    I thought you were saying that it is ok to brand all men as potential rapists
    At our core most of us have it in us to put it on someone without reasonable grounds to believe that they necessarily consent under certain circumstances/at some point

    (Original post by Steevee)
    looking at any man and saying 'Well, he could be a rapist!' without reason is madness, and a sure road to paranoia.
    Naw, looking at him and saying 'Well, he could be a rapist, therefore he probably is a rapist' would be madness, the fact is he could be

    If one gets too bogged down in such thinking it might lead to paranoia/agoraphobia tho aye
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    At our core most of us have it in us to put it on someone without reasonable grounds to believe that they necessarily consent under certain circumstances/at some point

    Naw, looking at him and saying 'Well, he could be a rapist, therefore he probably is a rapist' would be madness, the fact is he could be

    If one gets too bogged down in such thinking it might lead to paranoia/agoraphobia tho aye
    So I presume you present the same argument across the board? Looking at everyone and thinking they could be a theif. Looking at everyone and thinking they could be readying themselves for an assault on you?

    Moving aside from that, and onto your second point, does that not tally with the argument I've been making already? I've accepted that we all have the capacity for it, but the majority of us will never do it, which is what you are saying. It's madness to assume it so. With that in mind, then why is it ok to ignore this with the advertisments and camnpaigns blaming all men for rape, either explicitly or implicitly?
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    So I presume you present the same argument across the board? Looking at everyone and thinking they could be a theif. Looking at everyone and thinking they could be readying themselves for an assault on you?
    To a degree yes, that's why we air on the side of caution as per your thumbnail image

    (Original post by Steevee)
    It's madness to assume it so
    Agreed.

    (Original post by Steevee)
    With that in mind, then why is it ok to ignore this with the advertisments and campaigns blaming all men for rape, either explicitly or implicitly?
    I don't think it is ok, and some of those campaigns are frankly deluded/irresponsible for encouraging people to focus too heavily on/get hyperbolic about certain parts of the picture

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Updated: February 29, 2012
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