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Ex muslim atheists, have you ever seen them..

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    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    Not sure what you're trying to imply, but whatever it is, that's not because of religion.



    It's more judgemental based on what they see.

    Iranians have executed more people in 30 years than 1000 years of Islamic history has. And this is down to their deviant beliefs and other weird practices.

    :eyeball: How do you know how many people have been executed in islamic histroy- where did you get the stat to create that ridiculous statement?
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    (Original post by kenni12)
    Nothing much but since you're an ex muslim, I just wanted to know about islam for an ex muslims point of view for once, because if I point these stuff out they'd say I don't know about islam, so I shouldn't critise. Also does the quran have contradictions and fallacies?
    Nothing I have said has even hinted at the fact that I'm an ex-Muslim.
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    (Original post by Algorithm69)
    Nothing I have said has even hinted at the fact that I'm an ex-Muslim.
    Oh, sorry, my mistake, I must have confused your comment with another member's one, LOL
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    (Original post by blackhoney123)
    Guys, I'm an ex muslim atheist and it is very difficult to see people like myself....
    Em, since that's the case, have you read the whole of the quran? does it have contradictions or stories with fictional events(e.g, the bible has stories with talking animals, virgin birth, people turning into salt, a woman mad from a mans rib,etc)?
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    (Original post by Algorithm69)
    There are many ex-Muslim atheists. I don't think you've been looking very well. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is probably the most prominent, as is Salmon Rushdie, who was born into a Muslim family, and Ibn Warraq. Also, TheJinnAndTonicShow on Youtube has ex-Muslim panellists.
    you have many

    look e.g at http://www.apostatesofislam.com/, or at http://www.faithfreedom.org/

    or simply google "apostates of Islam" - 651,000 results

    this includes of course also those who dream of executing every single one of them
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    (Original post by kenni12)
    Em, since that's the case, have you read the whole of the quran? does it have contradictions or stories with fictional events(e.g, the bible has stories with talking animals, virgin birth, people turning into salt, a woman mad from a mans rib,etc)?
    have you read the Quran ?

    the Quran also includes the virgin birth

    019.019
    YUSUFALI: He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
    PICKTHAL: He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.
    SHAKIR: He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy.

    019.020
    YUSUFALI: She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"
    PICKTHAL: She said: How can I have a son when no mortal hath touched me, neither have I been unchaste?
    SHAKIR: She said: When shall I have a boy and no mortal has yet touched me, nor have I been unchaste?
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    have you read the Quran ?

    the Quran also includes the virgin birth

    019.019
    YUSUFALI: He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
    PICKTHAL: He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.
    SHAKIR: He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy.

    019.020
    YUSUFALI: She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"
    PICKTHAL: She said: How can I have a son when no mortal hath touched me, neither have I been unchaste?
    SHAKIR: She said: When shall I have a boy and no mortal has yet touched me, nor have I been unchaste?
    thanks for that point
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    The reason you probably don't find quite so many vocal ex-muslim atheists is because those who leave Islam, under Sharia law, are to be put to death for the crime of apostasy. While you can leave most Christian sects in relative safety, and even follow up with a career in criticizing religion, to do so from Islam would be a huge threat to one's personal safety. There is a violent, barbaric and backward side to this religion that does not deserve one ounce of tolerance in modern society.

    Before the user Perserveranze attempts a rebuttal, may I remind him that his avatar features a picture of a masked Islamic man with a handgun...
    The only way that an apostate could be put to death is if he accompanied "apostasy with Murder or treason".
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    Fear of being murdered/completely disowned by your mental fundamentalist family prevents many muslims from openly rejecting it. That and the Quran says you should die for turning you back on Islam.

    Edit: Neg me all you like, a good proportion of muslims would be kicked out of the family for turning their back on the religion and the Quran says the punishment for apostasy is death. These things are facts.
    Seems a lot of people don't know about apostasy and the punishments associated with it.

    The ONLY way that an apostate could be "murdered" is if he was an "apostate who had either committed MURDER or TREASON".
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    (Original post by Bishy786)
    The only way that an apostate could be put to death is if he accompanied "apostasy with Murder or treason".
    you are just stating your personal opinion as if it were established fact

    the truth is, there is in Islamic fiqh (jurisprudence) any number of opinions represented on what exactly constitutes riddah (apostatsy) and on how it should be punished

    to start with, since you follow the Hanafi fiqh, you should know that the prevalent view is that the female apostate should not be executed, but imprisoned and flogged three times a day until she spontaneously returns to Islam

    the male apostate, however, should be executed

    as to what exactly constitutes "riddah" (apostasy), whether "extreme" or "simple" etc you have many opinions

    a discussion such as this one will give you an idea of the total confusion and chaos prevailing on this issue
    http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...postate-s-life
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    you are just stating your personal opinion as if it were established fact

    the truth is, there is in Islamic fiqh (jurisprudence) any number of opinions represented on what exactly constitutes riddah (apostatsy) and on how it should be punished

    to start with, since you follow the Hanafi fiqh, you should know that the prevalent view is that the female apostate should not be executed, but imprisoned and flogged three times a day until she spontaneously returns to Islam

    the male apostate, however, should be executed

    as to what exactly constitutes "riddah" (apostasy), whether "extreme" or "simple" etc you have many opinions

    a discussion such as this one will give you an idea of the total confusion and chaos prevailing on this issue
    http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...postate-s-life
    Not true, Bishy786 has a point. Read into it. There is no punishment for apostasy in the Quran. The only time it is even acceptable is if the apostate is involving himself with treason. Before you call this barbaric, treason still has the death penalty in many countries. Also, Christianity and Judaism prescribe the death penalty just for apostasy (w/out treason).

    But I digress. You hear of fewer Muslim born atheists than other religions because we are brought up with more education and faith in our religion. Unlike many Christians, most Muslims learn about their religion properly, instead of just at specific times such as Christmas or Easter. For the same reason, you just as rarely hear of Jewish born atheists.
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    (Original post by blackhoney123)
    Guys, I'm an ex muslim atheist and it is very difficult to see people like myself. There are a lot of ex muslims/ ex muslim atheists out there. It's just that we are afraid to speak. Religion is seen as the fundamental part of someone in our culture and if people like me ever spoke about leaving Islam, we risk losing our family, friends and relatives, therefore many people just shut up about it and lead there lives. If your looking for ex muslim atheists try the council of ex muslims of Britain.
    Why did this guy get neggd? You want some truth... Here is the absolute truth no matter how harsh it is, unfortunately!
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    (Original post by NuckingFut)
    Not true, Bishy786 has a point. Read into it. There is no punishment for apostasy in the Quran. The only time it is even acceptable is if the apostate is involving himself with treason..
    the death penalty is prescribed in several sahih ahadith.

    are you a Submitter/Quran-only Muslim?

    did you read the discussion I posted ?

    Bishy follows the Hanafi madhab (legal school) so he should take account of the traditional Hanafi fiqh (jurisprudence) on this issue, instead of dismissing it off-hand

    Best
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    (Original post by NuckingFut)
    Before you call this barbaric, treason still has the death penalty in many countries. Also, Christianity and Judaism prescribe the death penalty just for apostasy (w/out treason).
    so, what ? if Christians and Jews still considered that apostasy carries the death penalty, it would be barbaric also for them (however, they have luckily abandoned that view)

    few people know also that no "Western" State still has the death penalty for treason on the statute books

    in any case, the penalty for apostasy (riddah) in Shariah traditionally was always execution, however with some dissenting opinions

    by the way, in the Hanafi and Shia Jafari fiqh, the female apostate should not be killed, but only imprisoned and flogged several times each day (I forget how many times a day, but the two schools also disagree on that - I can find that out, if anyone is interested) until she returns to Islam

    best
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    (Original post by Bishy786)
    The only way that an apostate could be put to death is if he accompanied "apostasy with Murder or treason".
    The punishment for apostasy (and apostasy alone) ranges from death to imprisonment, depending on the scholar or how some Hadiths are to be interpreted. Whether or not death is necessarily involved, leaving this religion is certainly not a free, safe or comfortable process in Islamic society.

    Apostasy also covers the mockery of the prophet Muhammad. There is currently a man (who wrote some rather benign negative words about the prophet on twitter) who is under threat of execution in Saudi Arabia for this heinous crime. "Repenting will not work…any man who insults God or our Prophet (PBUH) should be killed" - Sheikh Saleh bin Fowzan Al Fowzan, Saudi High Cleric, on Hamza Kashgari. (Emirates 24/7)

    I could point to hundreds more human rights atrocities and acts of barbarism in nations ruled by this religion.
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    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    Not sure what you're trying to imply, but whatever it is, that's not because of religion.



    It's more judgemental based on what they see.

    Iranians have executed more people in 30 years than 1000 years of Islamic history has. And this is down to their deviant beliefs and other weird practices.
    Isn't Iran highly muslim dominated though, hence being called the Islamic Republic of Iran? Just wondering.
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    (Original post by Agenda Suicide)
    Isn't Iran highly muslim dominated though, hence being called the Islamic Republic of Iran? Just wondering.
    As Sunni's we don't recognise it as an Islamic State nor as them following Islamic Law, because they are Shia people and follow Shia Islam. In essence, they follow a completely different Islam.
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    (Original post by TheHuman)
    As Sunni's we don't recognise it as an Islamic State nor as them following Islamic Law, because they are Shia people and follow Shia Islam. In essence, they follow a completely different Islam.
    Thanks, that makes sense.
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    (Original post by Einheri)
    If you've ever seen Muslims drinking then you're looking at people who don't believe in Islam/Allah. If you honestly believed that drinking would send you to Hell (Jahannam in Arabic) for eternity then you wouldn't do it (I certainly wouldn't if I believed that: Not burning forever in Hell > Alcohol). A lot of them are culturally Muslim i.e they say they're Muslim for cultural reasons rather than having an actual, genuine belief. This is very common with second and third generation Asians.
    The punishment is for breaking the law. The English Parliament has set up laws, a breach of which will result in punishment of some form. In like manner, Islam has also been set with laws, a breach of which will result in punishment of some form. There is essentially no difference in principle. Only the crimes and punishments are different!!
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    (Original post by Playa10)
    The punishment is for breaking the law. The English Parliament has set up laws, a breach of which will result in punishment of some form. In like manner, Islam has also been set with laws, a breach of which will result in punishment of some form. There is essentially no difference in principle. Only the crimes and punishments are different!!
    Yes there are. I was listening to a talk yesterday about individualism as a foundation of the West whereas Islam advocates a whole different society akin to communitarianism.

    For example, he was talking about the right of viewing porn being unbalanced by the right of a woman not to be viewing in that way.
Updated: October 30, 2012
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