[mariachi]

(Original post by kr23)
You can search on youtube ****loads of conversions stories which are legit.

how do you make the distinction ? are perhaps conversions to Islam usually legit, while apostasies are "fake" ?

actually, it is not so easy to know. Also, the distinction between "authentic" and "fake" can be pretty blurred : whenever people "go public" with their religious choices, there are other considerations which set in, unfortunately.

Religious propaganda is very much present, on all sides.

[kr23]

(Original post by mariachi)
how do you make the distinction ? are perhaps conversions to Islam usually legit, while apostasies are "fake" ?

actually, it is not so easy to know. Also, the distinction between "authentic" and "fake" can be pretty blurred : whenever people "go public" with their religious choices, there are other considerations which set in, unfortunately.

Religious propaganda is very much present, on all sides.

conversions are legit, and I think you are paranoid

[JekaMajeka]

As an exmuslim atheist myself I can tell you that most of us remain in the closet about our lack of belief in the Abrahamic God because of the severe consequences it entails. I think the death penalty plays a part here but this is only a more likely consequence if you live in a country ruled by Shari'a law or if you have religious nutters for parents/relatives. Most of us however come from strict religious families and it would mean losing them and being ostracized from our community if we speak out. A nauseating mixture of tradition and dogma traps us. If you visit exmuslim forums the recurring theme is people caught in a dilemma which involves choosing between leading your own life, freeing yourself from the shackles of religion and pleasing your parents by pretending to be a muslim.

I was actually raised as a muslim, a proper muslim not a diluted version of one and I chose to leave the religion at sixteen. But of course, muslims will say that I have no clue what Islam is really about, I'm an emotional little git and a conspiring jew.

[Ayah]

(Original post by mariachi)
On the contrary, "renegades", "apostates" etc are usually very interesting, intelligent persons and I admire quite a few of them
they have had the intellectual (and sometimes even physical) courage of examining critically the ideologies/religions in which they were educated, and did not give in to facility
In my experience, most apostates have actually a better knowledge of their former religion than the average "true believer", since they spent so much time on questions which tormented them, before breaking away
Best

what the hell are you talking about. a person who leaves his religion in the 1st place isnt an amirable person at all. firstly they are questioning their faith, which shows they lack faith and therefore werent really a believer at all. You arent forced into islam, but leaving your faith just because you got cocky thinking i want proof etc etc make you the fool as you are supposed to have a billion%faith, then maybe you can start to build a relationship with your faith an you'd try to understand it instead of questioning it. People i mean little kids nowadays leave islam anyway bcos they havent 'experienced life' or dont agree with the quran because their friends arent following the rules. its freakin ridiculous and i honestly feel sorry for you...hope you find the right way back on day before its too late...

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by Ayah)
what the hell are you talking about. a person who leaves his religion in the 1st place isnt an amirable person at all. firstly they are questioning their faith, which shows they lack faith and therefore werent really a believer at all. You arent forced into islam, but leaving your faith just because you got cocky thinking i want proof etc etc make you the fool as you are supposed to have a billion%faith, then maybe you can start to build a relationship with your faith an you'd try to understand it instead of questioning it. People i mean little kids nowadays leave islam anyway bcos they havent 'experienced life' or dont agree with the quran because their friends arent following the rules. its freakin ridiculous and i honestly feel sorry for you...hope you find the right way back on day before its too late...

So abandoning your religion is bad because it proves you were never really a believer to begin with, ergo cannot abandon a religion you never really believed in? Read a logic book, then come back to us. Thank you.

[mariachi]

(Original post by Ayah)
what the hell are you talking about.

apostates .

. a person who leaves his religion in the 1st place isnt an admirable person at all..

some of them I have to really admire .

As a Muslim, e.g. don't you admire those who leave their religion and convert to Islam ?

firstly they are questioning their faith, which shows they lack faith and therefore werent really a believer at all..

this is absolute nonsense. So, in your view all people who apostatize in fact are not really apostates, because they didn't believe in the first place. .

You arent forced into islam, but leaving your faith just because you got cocky thinking i want proof etc etc make you the fool.

again, absolute nonsense
quite a few apostates are people who start to question their faith as they grow up, and don't find answers to their questions. People change over time, and yes, they may look for proof for things which in the past they took for granted .

for people apostatize as you are supposed to have a billion%faith, then maybe you can start to build a relationship with your faith an you'd try to understand it instead of questioning it..

again, makes little or no sense. How are you supposed to understand religions or ideologies if you don't question them ? a healthy intellect always questions. .

People i mean little kids nowadays leave islam anyway bcos they havent 'experienced life' or dont agree with the quran because their friends arent following the rules. its freakin ridiculous and i honestly feel sorry for you...hope you find the right way back on day before its too late...

strange how you seem to think that I'm a Muslim apostate

well, I'm not. But I do admire their courage and their inquisitive mind.

Best

[mariachi]

(Original post by JekaMajeka)
I was actually raised as a muslim, a proper muslim not a diluted version of one and I chose to leave the religion at sixteen. But of course, muslims will say that I have no clue what Islam is really about, I'm an emotional little git and a conspiring jew.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I can imagine the emotional stress and the suffering involved in leaving a religion which is so deeply engrained in individual and group identity as Islam

I personally left Catholicism at around 14, and it was really a stressful, difficult experience, even without having any outside pressure at all.

Best

[Ayah]

(Original post by mariachi)
apostates .some of them I have to really admire .
As a Muslim, e.g. don't you admire those who leave their religion and convert to Islam ? this is absolute nonsense. So, in your view all people who apostatize in fact are not really apostates, because they didn't believe in the first place. .again, absolute nonsense
quite a few apostates are people who start to question their faith as they grow up, and don't find answers to their questions. People change over time, and yes, they may look for proof for things which in the past they took for granted . again, makes little or no sense. How are you supposed to understand religions or ideologies if you don't question them ? a healthy intellect always questions. .strange how you seem to think that I'm a Muslim apostate
well, I'm not. But I do admire their courage and their inquisitive mind.
Best

you are talking absolute nonsense so please dont quote me. i dont talk to retards, if you dnt like the fact that i do not like muslims who leave their faith...tough luck.

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
So abandoning your religion is bad because it proves you were never really a believer to begin with, ergo cannot abandon a religion you never really believed in? Read a logic book, then come back to us. Thank you.

I've read a logic book, it's called the Quran, so thank you but shut it, you clearly don't understand what my point is ...or maybe you do but won't admit. I wont come back to this ****ty thread...you are all obbsessed with islam, which is great...so maybe revert might be a solution.

[Rainingshame]

(Original post by JekaMajeka)
As an exmuslim atheist myself I can tell you that most of us remain in the closet about our lack of belief in the Abrahamic God because of the severe consequences it entails. I think the death penalty plays a part here but this is only a more likely consequence if you live in a country ruled by Shari'a law or if you have religious nutters for parents/relatives. Most of us however come from strict religious families and it would mean losing them and being ostracized from our community if we speak out. A nauseating mixture of tradition and dogma traps us. If you visit exmuslim forums the recurring theme is people caught in a dilemma which involves choosing between leading your own life, freeing yourself from the shackles of religion and pleasing your parents by pretending to be a muslim.

I was actually raised as a muslim, a proper muslim not a diluted version of one and I chose to leave the religion at sixteen. But of course, muslims will say that I have no clue what Islam is really about, I'm an emotional little git and a conspiring jew.

I did come out and i was raised properly, my parents are really religious and i recommend you keep it that way, it's the worst mistake i ever made. The annoying thing is they still make me go mosque whenever i'm home.
My friends who didn't come out are much better off in comparison. For me part of the reason, which i refuse to explain to my parents, is my sexuality which i know i can not help but which Abrahamic religions hold me responsible, apparently i have two death penalties on my head. Just wondering, what made you turn? (no essays please :P even though that's what it takes to explain it really)

[mariachi]

(Original post by Ayah)
i dont talk to retards,.

congrats. A wise choice.
.

if you dnt like the fact that i do not like muslims who leave their faith...tough luck..

personally, I couldn't care less
.

I've read a logic book, it's called the Quran,.

great.

so thank you but shut it,.

tut tut... do you own this place ?.[QUOTE].

you clearly don't understand what my point is ...or maybe you do but won't admit..

just choose which you prefer.

I wont come back to this ****ty thread.

as you please. No one can force you....

you are all obbsessed with islam, which is great...so maybe revert might be a solution.

thank you for your dispassionate advice

I can assure you that I will give it all the consideration it deserves

Best

[HRH2]

(Original post by kenni12)
I was raised as a christian, but recently became an atheist. I've experienced christianity enough to be critical and skeptical about it. But lately I've been hearing christians asking "Why don't you critise islam?", if anyone asked me, my response would be "I have no experience of islam, so it would be somehow unwise to critise a religion I don't really know about, unless the media was 100% factual".
Time and time again, we hear from devouted proud muslims about how great Allah and Mohammed is and how awesome their religion is. But I ask myself, if this is so, then why are there so much negative reports about it, and why are there reports about people deconverting and keeping it a secret?.
Most of the famous outspoken atheists are former christians especially the ones on youtube, that's why the issues the point out are usually related to christianity , but how come even in the western world, there are no atheists who have experienced islam enough to critise it and give their opinions about why they left it?.

Answer to your question. Salman Rushdie. Google him. The reasons ex Muslims don't criticize their religion is because religious leaders would order death Fatwas on them. Google Fatwa as well. Its like an official ruling which implies that you will be a Muslim hero if you kill the person who the death Fatwa is issued upon and you will have redeemed yourself. Thats why many Muslims have tried to assassinate people like Salman Rushdie and other Muslim critics.

[Ferdowsi]

(Original post by ak137)
Also the citizens living in Iran aren't actually Muslim - women just wear the headscarf to avoid confrontation with the police, for example.

Well most are shia muslims, but Iranians want religion to be a personal matter, and not live in a religious state

[shush]

(Original post by Ayah)
what the hell are you talking about. a person who leaves his religion in the 1st place isnt an amirable person at all. firstly they are questioning their faith, which shows they lack faith and therefore werent really a believer at all. You arent forced into islam, but leaving your faith just because you got cocky thinking i want proof etc etc make you the fool as you are supposed to have a billion%faith, then maybe you can start to build a relationship with your faith an you'd try to understand it instead of questioning it. People i mean little kids nowadays leave islam anyway bcos they havent 'experienced life' or dont agree with the quran because their friends arent following the rules. its freakin ridiculous and i honestly feel sorry for you...hope you find the right way back on day before its too late...

MashAllah sister (soz i just had to say that :L)
if someone is an apostate then its obvious they didnt understand Islam. Islam has spread rapidly, but some people are leaving it and secretly so thus does this not signify that they did not truly believe? If you believe your mother is your mother then 10 yrs on you wouldn't ask 'are you my mother?' (i know its a weak example but deal with it.) hence what im trying to say is i doubt the ''Muslim'' atheists believed as deep in Islam than they should have been. If they did, i doubt they'd be atheists today

[mariachi]

(Original post by _saleri_)
I would say that i am an ex-muslim, but i dont say i dont believe in allah, i would say i dont know what allah is and i wouldnt say that i dont know what religion is but i do not actively partake in the religion nor do i agree with many parts of it.

I used to be a good Muslim who would pray alot and so forth but now I have let go of all if not most my beleifs about the religion.

your story is very similar to that of most ex-Christians I know (including myself)

Muslim, non -Muslim, apostate, non-apostate, re-apostate; convert, devert, revert, subvert...

it's reassuring to notice how similar we all are

[ak137]

(Original post by Ferdowsi)
Well most are shia muslims, but Iranians want religion to be a personal matter, and not live in a religious state

Where've you been hiding

[Ferdowsi]

(Original post by ak137)
Where've you been hiding

What do you mean?

[ak137]

(Original post by Ferdowsi)
What do you mean?

Not seen you post for a while, thats all. Or it could be my inactivity

[Ferdowsi]

(Original post by ak137)
Not seen you post for a while, thats all. Or it could be my inactivity

miss me?

[ak137]

(Original post by Ferdowsi)
miss me?

Of course

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by Ayah)
I've read a logic book, it's called the Quran, so thank you but shut it, you clearly don't understand what my point is ...or maybe you do but won't admit. I wont come back to this ****ty thread...you are all obbsessed with islam, which is great...so maybe revert might be a solution.

Are you a student? Good ****ing luck.