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Can you be a pure vegan?

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    (Original post by ForKicks)
    Equating animal rights with human rights is just wrong.
    Why? People used to think that equating women's rights with men's was 'just wrong', but that changed, didn't it. And have you heard of Rosa Parks?
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    (Original post by the_alba)
    What an absolutely stupid thing to say. Clearly you know nothing about veganism and what it means.

    And the opinion in that article is voiced by someone sponsored by big agriculture! Are you aware of the concept of bias? If an agriculture research group pays a scientist to tell peoplenot to stop buying their meat, that there is bias.
    I was being facetious. I know what veganism is. Here Ill debunk my own argument to show you that I was intentionally being flippant. Veganism = not eating animals. Bacteria = not animals. My argument = debunked.

    Happy?

    I still think veganism is dumb though because whether they like it or not, the fact that vegans exist in today's world means that they at some level, consume and/or use animal products. Whether it be in cakes, cosmetics, medicine, clothing or food.
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    (Original post by Toaster Leavings)
    So, it's to better human life rather than to better animal's lives really. Hope that is clear.
    It's not clear to me, since you never replied to my question about death, and why, if death is a problem and animals seek to avoid it, killing them (hunting) is 'better' than not killing them (veganism).
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    (Original post by .eXe)
    I still think veganism is dumb though because whether they like it or not, the fact that vegans exist in today's world means that they at some level, consume and/or use animal products. Whether it be in cakes, cosmetics, medicine, clothing or food.
    It wasn't obvious from your post that you were being facetious, sorry. I've seen stupider arguments against veganism; it can be hard to tell whether a carnist is being serious or not.

    My cakes, cosmetics, clothing, and food are all vegan. I have no control over the medicine aspect at the moment, because animal testing exists and I can't personally stop it. Luckily, I'm not sick, so I don't have to face any ethical dilemmas over that right now (and I don't take nurofen etc anymore). Just because some animal products are genuinely unavoidable (and this, by the way, is a very small number - there are even vegan car tyres now) is no argument at all for actively encouraging cruelty and exploitation. These hidden animal products only exist *because* of the meat industry, so if you don't like it, the only logical step is to stop eating meat, not to continue doing so.
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    (Original post by mikestraws)
    I know just how many rabbits, mice, voles and small mammals are killed when we harvest our crops (grew up on a farm, work on a farm) cleanin the blades on a combine harvester can sometimes be a grissley task. Those animals died, so that we could grow crops, which vegans choose to eat to save animals. Not to mention all the insects that die - but vegans don't care about insects, they only care about creatures they think are "cute"
    Agreed.

    <3 x
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    (Original post by the_alba)
    Just on this point, you can get toiletries etc that *haven't* been tested on animals, and this is what vegans do. Original Source shower gel (which - omg - I love, especially the chocolate mint kind, and the raspberry and vanilla); Superdrug's own brands aren't animal tested, so that takes care of things like toothpaste, shampoo, deodorant and the like.
    PZ Cussons, parent company of Original Source, animal test: http://www.uncaged.co.uk/animaltesting.htm
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    (Original post by el pollo diablo)
    PZ Cussons, parent company of Original Source, animal test: http://www.uncaged.co.uk/animaltesting.htm
    Yes, parent companies really screw up everything. There's really nothing I can do about parent companies, though, is there. It often seems like every good thing is ultimately owned by an evil thing. Life is depressing.
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    (Original post by the_alba)
    Yes, parent companies really screw up everything. There's really nothing I can do about parent companies, though, is there. It often seems like every good thing is ultimately owned by an evil thing. Life is depressing.
    Well it's not like you have to buy Original Source...

    http://www.uncaged.co.uk/crueltyfree.htm
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    (Original post by el pollo diablo)
    Well it's not like you have to buy Original Source...

    http://www.uncaged.co.uk/crueltyfree.htm
    No, indeed, I'll make a switch. It is still the case, though, that however good and ethical a company appears to be, somewhere up the chain you'll find it's owned by a conglomeration who really couldn't give a toss. It's no argument against veganism though, of course.The more vegans there are, the more we can demonstrate a demand for animal-free products.
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    (Original post by mikestraws)
    I know just how many rabbits, mice, voles and small mammals are killed when we harvest our crops (grew up on a farm, work on a farm) cleanin the blades on a combine harvester can sometimes be a grissley task. Those animals died, so that we could grow crops, which vegans choose to eat to save animals. Not to mention all the insects that die - but vegans don't care about insects, they only care about creatures they think are "cute"

    Also this
    I agree with you mostly, but that last bit, is a bit of a bias stereotype? Im sure even if a product was tested on mice it would be a problem for a vegen
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    (Original post by mrgamer98)
    I agree with you mostly, but that last bit, is a bit of a bias stereotype? Im sure even if a product was tested on mice it would be a problem for a vegen
    Yeah probably. Which is another thing thats silly. If it wasnt for animal testing we wouldnt have medicinal insulin, something funny to point out to a diabetic vegan (like the vice president of PETA)
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    (Original post by mikestraws)
    Yeah probably. Which is another thing thats silly. If it wasnt for animal testing we wouldnt have medicinal insulin, something funny to point out to a diabetic vegan (like the vice president of PETA)
    It's not funny... how do you think it feels to choose between dying and going against your most deeply held principles? It's not remotely funny. But in a non-vegan world, these are dilemmas vegans sometimes have to face. If we choose to refuse medicine, and die, we will save ourselves from ingesting animal-abuse substances, but how can we help further the vegan cause if we're dead?

    It's a bit like if you were living in a politically extreme environment (say, 1930s Berlin), and instead of fighting underground for the Jews, and harbouring them in your home, announcing straight up that you hate Nazis and love Jews. You'll be following your beliefs, but the result will be death. You haven't helped any Jews, you've merely sacrificed yourself on the altar of your beliefs. Which is better? Sometimes life just isn't black and white, and youhave to do the best you can. Was it Burke who said, 'Nobody makes a greater mistake than he who does nothing because he could only do a little'?
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    I'm a vegetarian, have been for almost 4 years and I am the only one in my family to follow this diet. I have nothing but respect for those who follow the vegan diet and lifestyle. I tried it for a couple of weeks but my schedule is really crazy between work and uni so I struggled to organise my meals and everything out but I will probably go back to the diet once life gets a bit less hectic. There seem to be a lot of you that don't fully understand what its like or what all of the meat and fat you are eating is doing to your bodies. The vegan diet is so good for your health, I felt better when I was on it, and its ethical. Whoever said that vegetables have all sorts of chemicals and pesticides in them um organic food does exist? I know a lot of vegans prefer to grow their own fruit and veg anyway to ensure that no chemicals are involved. And if you're going to be so adament about internet/tv/car use, at least vegans and vegetarians everywhere are contributing something towards a better future for animals. How many of you carnivores can say the same?

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Updated: March 19, 2012
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