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Is it rape if he's my boyfriend

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    See new government campaign launched today

    Even if it doesn't quite count as rape your boyfriend is being forceful and he shouldn't be.
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    No it's not rape, but he seems quite manipulative. You should not be with him. Even from seeing it in the best light possible, which is, that he has a higher sex drive than you, you should not be with him.

    Ultimately, if it's all about sex drive incompatibility then you shouldn't give in, because you really don't want it. That's basically what going on: you eventually giving in, and because you have given in before he knows if he keeps on trying to convince you then you will give in to him once again. He probably even thinks in his own mind that he has 'turned you on' with his fingering. Don't let him believe this.

    Rape has to be forced, and dropping your opposition and crucially consenting, verbally or otherwise, to sex is NOT rape. (Otherwise every lothario and player out there would be a rapist! Dicks yes, rapists no.) Just flip it the other way around, if it was a woman doing this to a man - trying to turn him on when he is not interested, until eventually he gives in and goes through the motions is exactly the same as your situation.

    As a man, i've been in this situation myself: a bit sore down there and I'd had as much sex as I wanted or needed. But was with a girl who had a higher sex drive than me, and end up having to give in to pleasing her. Needless to say that relationship ended because it couldn't go on like that forever.

    Basically, the guy is a bit of an immature idiot to see that you're not interested. Get rid. But do not report this as rape...please, for everyone's sake. He may be a dick, but no-one needs a false accusation of rape against them...which as you're not even sure if you've been raped, that is what it would be.
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    (Original post by AlmostChicGeek)
    Obviously what is happening to the OP is wrong, and she definitely needs to ditch her boyfriend. However what she said is that she eventually gives in because he gets into a bad mood if she doesn't, how is that the same as rape? Obviously it is very difficult to not give in, and I am in no way blaming her for her boyfriends messed up views on how sex works in a relationship, but she does end up having sex with him, rather than walking away. I know it takes a lot of courage to walk away from that situation, and I know I would find it difficult, but it is a possibility available to her, however hard.
    This is the important part of your post. Because the coercion falls short of physical violence it is hard to see it in the same light as a gang rape in a dark alley. And that is because it is obviously qualitively different. By definition it is rape, there was no consent or consent was coerced(and by simple definition consent must be freely given) but it is quite clear to sensible people that it was different, even if it is difficult to explain why.

    Sadly there are too many hardliners who are unable to see that and live by the mantra 'rape is rape' lumping all incidents of non consensual sex into the same group. This is unhelpful because most people would not see this bully, unpleasant as he is, in the same group as a serial rapist who attacks women in parks and batters them unconscious.

    He ends up getting away with it because the only tariff available could see him imprisoned for the same length of time as the other rapists types mentioned. In addition if he went to a trial by jury many of the jury, as we've seen in the samll sample here, would not see this as rape, not understanding consent well enough, and he would quite likely get off. Knowing that, even if the assaults were reported, it is highly unlikely to ever get to trial.

    We have different offences for different levels of violence, we will probably very soon have different levels of murder, as they do in the US, but when Ken Clarke suggested that rapes occur at different levels of severity he was roundly thrashed in the press.

    I think I am missing something here, or not understanding something, so can you clarify the whole situation for me? Obviously I want to be clear on this for myself incase I ever get into the situation!
    This link take you to the recent NSPCC report on coercive sex among young people, look halfway down the page for the pdf:

    http://www.nspcc.org.uk/Inform/resea..._wda84543.html

    If you are ever in this situation you can say no at any point, even when things are properly underway, and it should stop*. No one can coerce you into consenting, being bullied into saying 'ok' isn't consent. My advice is that if it happens once, if you have found yourself effectively bullied into saying yes, then you need to remove yourself from that relationship asap.

    *don't expect to get a conviction on that one though, lets be realistic.
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    its not rape. But you have to tell your boyfriend that stop means stop. Saying sorry after you feel the pain and everything is really nothing. In my opinion you have to make things clear with him. You say stop he should listen to you.
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    (Original post by GStevens)
    This is the important part of your post. Because the coercion falls short of physical violence it is hard to see it in the same light as a gang rape in a dark alley. And that is because it is obviously qualitively different. By definition it is rape, there was no consent or consent was coerced(and by simple definition consent must be freely given) but it is quite clear to sensible people that it was different, even if it is difficult to explain why.

    Sadly there are too many hardliners who are unable to see that and live by the mantra 'rape is rape' lumping all incidents of non consensual sex into the same group. This is unhelpful because most people would not see this bully, unpleasant as he is, in the same group as a serial rapist who attacks women in parks and batters them unconscious.

    He ends up getting away with it because the only tariff available could see him imprisoned for the same length of time as the other rapists types mentioned. In addition if he went to a trial by jury many of the jury, as we've seen in the samll sample here, would not see this as rape, not understanding consent well enough, and he would quite likely get off. Knowing that, even if the assaults were reported, it is highly unlikely to ever get to trial.

    We have different offences for different levels of violence, we will probably very soon have different levels of murder, as they do in the US, but when Ken Clarke suggested that rapes occur at different levels of severity he was roundly thrashed in the press.



    This link take you to the recent NSPCC report on coercive sex among young people, look halfway down the page for the pdf:

    http://www.nspcc.org.uk/Inform/resea..._wda84543.html

    If you are ever in this situation you can say no at any point, even when things are properly underway, and it should stop*. No one can coerce you into consenting, being bullied into saying 'ok' isn't consent. My advice is that if it happens once, if you have found yourself effectively bullied into saying yes, then you need to remove yourself from that relationship asap.

    *don't expect to get a conviction on that one though, lets be realistic.
    Thanks for clearing that up!

    P.S what is with the neg, it was a simple query.
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    (Original post by AliceStrawbs)
    The video is basically about a new government incentive to let young people know that if you do not give your consent to sex in a relationship then that is still rape. It also says how many girls feel like they have to "give in" because they're afraid of what will happen if they don't and how no means NO. (The story doesn't fully explain that but the video did)

    The OP said that she eventually gives in and lets him have sex with her but she doesn't say that she's consented and said Yes, just that she's not trying to stop him - maybe she's afraid of his reaction or doesn't feel like she can. The fact that she's said that he's fingering her whilst she's saying no would be making it clear that she wasn't up for it.

    This story is a bit clearer http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17251461
    Thanks for clearing it up for me
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    (Original post by Nicholas Brakespear)
    No it's not rape, but he seems quite manipulative. You should not be with him. Even from seeing it in the best light possible, which is, that he has a higher sex drive than you, you should not be with him.

    Ultimately, if it's all about sex drive incompatibility then you shouldn't give in, because you really don't want it. That's basically what going on: you eventually giving in, and because you have given in before he knows if he keeps on trying to convince you then you will give in to him once again. He probably even thinks in his own mind that he has 'turned you on' with his fingering. Don't let him believe this.

    Rape has to be forced, and dropping your opposition and crucially consenting, verbally or otherwise, to sex is NOT rape. (Otherwise every lothario and player out there would be a rapist! Dicks yes, rapists no.) Just flip it the other way around, if it was a woman doing this to a man - trying to turn him on when he is not interested, until eventually he gives in and goes through the motions is exactly the same as your situation.

    As a man, i've been in this situation myself: a bit sore down there and I'd had as much sex as I wanted or needed. But was with a girl who had a higher sex drive than me, and end up having to give in to pleasing her. Needless to say that relationship ended because it couldn't go on like that forever.

    Basically, the guy is a bit of an immature idiot to see that you're not interested. Get rid. But do not report this as rape...please, for everyone's sake. He may be a dick, but no-one needs a false accusation of rape against them...which as you're not even sure if you've been raped, that is what it would be.
    Actually, it is rape. She repeatedly said no, he didn't stop, and eventually she stopped saying no. You don't have to scream and struggle to show you're not consenting. Just one 'no' would have done it, and she gave him several. She was saying no when he was touching her, so that was sexual assault, and then when he started having sex with her that was rape, as she still hadn't started consenting.

    Sex drive incompatibility has nothing to do with it- it's a basic dismissal of what she wants and will consent to in their sex life.


    OP- I recommend you go to this website http://www.scarleteen.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi

    You can talk to specialists on consent, rape, and sexual assault, and they can give you advice. TSR is rammed with people who don't really know much about consent, and it can be really unhelpful to come here for advice sometimes.
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    If you don't want it, it's rape. Simples.
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    (Original post by AlmostChicGeek)
    Thanks for clearing that up!

    P.S what is with the neg, it was a simple query.
    Just to be clear, I didn't give you the neg and have no idea why anyone would.
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    (Original post by GStevens)
    Just to be clear, I didn't give you the neg and have no idea why anyone would.
    Oh I didn't think it was you! Sorry I didn't make that clear! I did wonder if you knew why right enough. Well thanks, I was genuinely confused, thats why I wanted to see what I was missing!
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    It's not rape. If I'd been raped I'd feel upset that the two were being classed as similar. Rape is traumatising and disgracefully unfair. However, I'm not saying what your bf is doing is right. He's demanding too much and is not respecting your wishes. This is not how a relationship should be. He's pressurising you into sex you don't want to have but you are consenting. If you don't want sex, don't allow him. What's worse...him whinging or you being in bad pain?
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    Maybe be more resolute and work on addressing the issue, if you've just lost your virginity then it may be a while before sex is truly comfortable, never mind enjoyable. My ex took a long time to 'adjust'
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    50 no's and a yes, means yes
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    Tbh if i was the guy i would leave the relationship, due to sexual fustration. personally i couldnt live without it. and if it will cause me to cheat i would try to prevent it
    #2

    (Original post by missderrie)
    It's not rape. If I'd been raped I'd feel upset that the two were being classed as similar. Rape is traumatising and disgracefully unfair. However, I'm not saying what your bf is doing is right. He's demanding too much and is not respecting your wishes. This is not how a relationship should be. He's pressurising you into sex you don't want to have but you are consenting. If you don't want sex, don't allow him. What's worse...him whinging or you being in bad pain?
    I've been raped, in the 'typical' violent sense of the word, and I still class what this girl is experiencing as rape. Why be upset that the two are being classed as similar, it's not a competition about who has had the worse experience. People seriously need to move away from the whole idea that rape is a thing that is committed by a stranger in a dark alley, it's things like this that put people off reporting rape as they don't think it will be taken seriously, and why people stay in relationships with abusive partners because people are trying to justify it by saying 'oh it's not that bad what you are going through'.
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    He obvously doesn't realise the pain your in, and thinks a simple sorry at the end will solve all. You really need to bring this topic up, when your not having sex. Just be open with him, and say when i say no, i mean it. Say it feels like your forcing yourself upon me when you say no and then give in. You say he's in a bad mood when you dont want to go any further. Well this is just childish on his part, when you say no you mean it and he shouldn't keep doing it. Is this rape? I really don't know. I don't think the fella knows when to stop when he gets going. Sounds rapey I guess especially when your in pain.

    defo bring this up next time you see him, it's not fair on you!
    #3

    According to UK case law, there is a distinction between consent and submission (R v Kirk) - it sounds like you're submitting here, and this could amount to rape.

    However, the key issue here isn't about labelling what your boyfriend does to you - it's about thinking how to move forward and get yourself out of the situation you're in.

    You either need to give your boyfriend a good talking to or get out of the relationship. Good luck.
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    i've gone through something similar - found talking to some friends helped because this sort of stuff can really knock you down - hope things work out for you
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    This is pretty damn rapey. If you are telling him no and he is still fingering you then it is sexual assault. If you 'submit' because you're scared that you'll end up fighting and he's in a bad mood then it is rape.

    If you do not want something to happen, and you say no and he keeps going until you feel your only option is to give in then it is rape. Rape doesn't have to be a horrible physical attack. It can be emotional and manipulative too, just like this. It is just as horrible as a 'physical' attack. The fact you are feeling this way and you are hurt afterwards if awful and you shouldn't be going through this.

    Get the hell out of that relationship and don't even look back!
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I've been raped, in the 'typical' violent sense of the word, and I still class what this girl is experiencing as rape. Why be upset that the two are being classed as similar, it's not a competition about who has had the worse experience. People seriously need to move away from the whole idea that rape is a thing that is committed by a stranger in a dark alley, it's things like this that put people off reporting rape as they don't think it will be taken seriously, and why people stay in relationships with abusive partners because people are trying to justify it by saying 'oh it's not that bad what you are going through'.
    I'm not saying there are different 'severities' of rape at all. As I said, rape is traumatising and disgracefully unfair no matter what type of rape it is. All I meant was that if I had been raped I'd be upset that it was under the same heading as a girl giving in to her boyfreind and that was just my honest opinion. No means no and I would be 100% supporting of any rape victim going to the police. It really upsets me the number of women and men that don't report the horrendous crime.

    I just think that if a girl willingly gives in to sex then this is not rape. It is most definately 'pressurising into sex' but it is different to sex without consent. That is my opinion, though. I may be wrong in some people's eyes but I am being honest.
Updated: February 17, 2013
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